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Discussion Starter #1
H & D last had their vaccines in 2007 .... our vet fully supported my decision in 2008 NOT to vaccinate.

Outside of anything unusual - we see the vet once a year for a check-up. So in 2008, and 2009, I discussed this, and our vet agreed it was not necessary to vaccinate.

Now it's been 3 years without vaccinations, and H & D are due their yearly check up, I am having a hard time deciding what to do about their vaccines.

I consider them to be VERY low risk ... they do not go to day care, they have never been boarded & never will be, their outings mostly consist of visits to either the vet, or my parents (pet-less) home - basically, their exposure to any 'nasties' is fairly minimal. The only slight risk they face is exposure through our pet sitter - but the vet told me that unless she has poor hygiene (doesn't wash her hands & check her shoes etc .... ) it is highly unlikely she will bring anything into our home.

I should add - they have only ever had vaccines for Parvo, Distemper, Hepatitis & Paranfluenza - here its called C4 ... the C5 vaccine also includes Bordetella (kennel cough) - but they have never had the C5 shot.

I'm now wondering if I should stretch it out to 5 years given the very low risk? In saying that ... I also think in 2 years time (at the 5 year mark) I will face the same dilemma!! lol

What would you do??
 

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Well, everyone has their own opinions on these things. If they are healthy dogs, their immune systems are strong, then the chances of them catching something go way down.

If they've already had vaccinations once, then titer testing might be the way to go to see if they still hold immunity. JMO.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Suzan! They have both had vaccinations in the past, and as I said, I feel they are low risk. I did speak to the vet about Titer testing a couple of years ago ... and at that time, they thought that it would be a fairly costly exercise for us, with limited accuracy - apparently, they need to send 'part' of the test overseas somewhere as its not commonly done here. So I've kind of been talked out of titer testing ... for now.
 

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I agree with Suzan that a strong healthy immune system can fight off an awful lot. Given their lifestyle it is very unlikely that your dogs will get any of the diseases you would be vaccinating for. And even if they did, Parvo generally strikes young puppies with immature immune systems and the others are treatable. I vaccinated my first two dogs annually for a couple of years. The others have gotten a series of 3 puppy shots, a one-year booster, and nothing else except their rabies vaccination every 3 years. Timmy is 8 yrs. old, goes out and about with me, went to dog shows frequently while being shown, and still goes to dog shows occasionally. He has never gotten sick. Andy is 13 and hasn't had a DHPP vaccination since he was 4. Grace is almost 12 and had her last DHPP shot at 3 yrs. old. I don't plan on vaccinating anybody beyond their one-year booster and I don't bother titering either.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks Mary, appreciate your views. I don't want to be irresponsible, but at the same time, I really dont want to put anything into their systems that that dont ABSOLUTELY need.

Im so thankful we dont have rabies to contend with in this country!!
 

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here is dr dodds current protocol

Dr-Dodds-ChangingVaccProtocol

I have titered for years with my 3 and I will share what happened to me this year. DD has not had a parvo distemper since she was 6 mos old due to all her health issues after her puppy shots and I have titered her since and she has always been over the recommended level. My other two have had one year booster then I titered and Lucy my new girl yorkie who i just got after my friend passed away 7/1 has been vaccinated yearly and she is 5lbs and I was not happy as she has had dhpp and rabies every year and she is 3 and when i asked vet WHY? she told me it is up to the owners to request 3 years and it broke my heart as my friend like most would not question a vet :( My vet just shook her head when she saw the shot records.

We had a plumber come in our home twice in one week and NEVER said a word to us and he mentioned on the sly he had a new puppy so i started asking questions and found out his puppy was in the hospital with PARVO. I freaked out as I knew he probably did not bleach his shoes, etc before coming into my home. I immediately called the specialty hospital and spoke to internal medicine, my two vets, dr dodds, and online groups. All said do not worry about it your dogs had their puppy shots they should be fine. DD is also on immune suppressant drugs as well she is on temarilp for allergies which had me concerned mostly for her.

Well nothing happened and all are fine soooooo here is what i questioned them -If you know that they are protected from puppy shots then why are you vaccinating dogs yearly or every 3 years? This was a real eye opener for me as all acted like no big deal your dogs will be fine so thought i would share this with you and this confirmed my decision to titer and even if low on titer I probably would not re-vaccinate knowing a low titer does not mean they are not protected

Keep in mind also the bottle says FOR HEALTHY DOGS ONLY so dogs with health issues you should really weigh the consequences before vaccinating and discuss thoroughly with vet.
 

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I also agree a poor immune system dog will get things more than a dog with a healthy immune system as my dd is hypothyroid and has atopic dermatitis (allergies) and both are auto immune diseases. She had revolution on to rule out scabies when she was a puppy and we were trying to figure out why she itched so much and i took her and my two with good immune systems to a friend's house by the beach. DD with flea protection had the most fleas and my other two had no flea protection on and had one or two fleas. It was then that i realized what many had said that dogs with poor immune systems will be affected more by fleas and other things than a dog with a healthy immune system. I called the mfg of revolution as was upset as to how my dog with flea protection had more fleas than my other dogs and that is when i learned about flea protection and no longer use it but in an area where not really necessary as the flea is not killed instantly and it still bites the dog and whole reason i would be using it for her was to rule out scabies and for flea saliva allergy. I then stopped using anything as did not want chemicals on a dog that already had skin issues because if the flea is still going to bite her then what was the point just do not take her to areas like beach anymore.

This showed me how a poor immune system even with protection attracted more fleas than my other two with a good immune system.
 

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here is dr dodds current protocol

Dr-Dodds-ChangingVaccProtocol

I have titered for years with my 3 and I will share what happened to me this year. DD has not had a parvo distemper since she was 6 mos old due to all her health issues after her puppy shots and I have titered her since and she has always been over the recommended level. My other two have had one year booster then I titered and Lucy my new girl yorkie who i just got after my friend passed away 7/1 has been vaccinated yearly and she is 5lbs and I was not happy as she has had dhpp and rabies every year and she is 3 and when i asked vet WHY? she told me it is up to the owners to request 3 years and it broke my heart as my friend like most would not question a vet :( My vet just shook her head when she saw the shot records.

We had a plumber come in our home twice in one week and NEVER said a word to us and he mentioned on the sly he had a new puppy so i started asking questions and found out his puppy was in the hospital with PARVO. I freaked out as I knew he probably did not bleach his shoes, etc before coming into my home. I immediately called the specialty hospital and spoke to internal medicine, my two vets, dr dodds, and online groups. All said do not worry about it your dogs had their puppy shots they should be fine. DD is also on immune suppressant drugs as well she is on temarilp for allergies which had me concerned mostly for her.

Well nothing happened and all are fine soooooo here is what i questioned them -If you know that they are protected from puppy shots then why are you vaccinating dogs yearly or every 3 years? This was a real eye opener for me as all acted like no big deal your dogs will be fine so thought i would share this with you and this confirmed my decision to titer and even if low on titer I probably would not re-vaccinate knowing a low titer does not mean they are not protected

Keep in mind also the bottle says FOR HEALTHY DOGS ONLY so dogs with health issues you should really weigh the consequences before vaccinating and discuss thoroughly with vet.

I agree.

I had a very interesting conversation with my (conventional medicine) vet last week. It was the first time in 15 years he totally opened up about this issue.

Fact: Some vets won't push for 3-year vaccinations because then most people would not take their dogs in for a yearly checkup. The clinics would lose revenue, and the pets might not be diagnosed quickly enough to help them in the event of the onset of an illness if people just had an exam done every 3 years.

Opinion: We discussed the Rabies Challenge Fund, and how they are striving for establishing a 7 year protocol for rabies vaccinations. The vet said, "It will never happen." At first, I thought he meant because the rabies vaccination was not effective enough to last 7 years. I was shocked when HE said, "No it's not about the effectiveness of a 7-year vaccine. It's completely political. Animal Control are a strong lobby against a 7 year shot, as they would lose revenue from folks not having to bother with dog licenses for 7 years."

Also, my vet agrees that vaccinating small dogs is simply riskier than vaccinating larger dogs.

So instead of blindly trusting those who make the vaccinations, and others who end up make money from administering them, let's get real here. Vaccinations, both for dogs and for humans, are a huge source of revenue. Yes, they can definitely be a godsend, but still, they are often misused, overused, and contain toxic adjuvants, especially toxic to little people and little dogs. We can argue for days over this, but no matter what, we can all agree that they are mis-used and over-used in some circumstances.

If more of us stopped over-vaccinating, and supported doctors and health care professionals that were interested in taking the time to study nutrition, and the immune system - and how it can be strengthened, instead of using poison to cure poison, then maybe things would change for the better with this issue.
 

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Lifetime immunity is a hypothesis...it has not been proven with challenge studies...and I won't vaccinate my dogs on the "they SHOULD have immunity" idea until I know it is the "they DO have immunity" study.
 

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I took Callie in for her 1 year well visit. She's only had her puppy series from her breeder. I was pleasantly surprised when my new vet suggested we do a titer for parvo instead of a 1 year booster. The titer came back with her in the well protected range. So not all vets are automatically doing vaccines at the standard protocols. :thumbsup:
 

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Lifetime immunity is a hypothesis...it has not been proven with challenge studies...and I won't vaccinate my dogs on the "they SHOULD have immunity" idea until I know it is the "they DO have immunity" study.

VERY good point. A lot of people don't realize that so many recommendations from from the anti-vaccination and holostic point of view are only THEORY.

This is why Vets recommend the vaccination schedules they do. There's a whole lot of studies and titering which needs to be done before we can say it's okay to not vaccinate your pet after a certain point.

It's better to discuss your pet's vaccination protocol with your Vet. He/she will know and consider the risks versus benefits for your pet and your lifestyle.



Joy
 

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I still have not decided what to do. My malt has had 4 sets of puppy vaccines not 3 because the vet said the first puppy shot was done at 6 weeks which was too early. She recently just had her 3 year rabies vaccine and 1 year booster. No side affects thank goodness. I'm thinking she is very low risk and I should maybe just re-vaccinate every 3-5 years. My only concern is that if she did end up catching something deadly I would feel very guilty knowing there was a vaccine that could of protected her.
 

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VERY good point. A lot of people don't realize that so many recommendations from from the anti-vaccination and holostic point of view are only THEORY.

This is why Vets recommend the vaccination schedules they do. There's a whole lot of studies and titering which needs to be done before we can say it's okay to not vaccinate your pet after a certain point.

It's better to discuss your pet's vaccination protocol with your Vet. He/she will know and consider the risks versus benefits for your pet and your lifestyle.



Joy
just curious why in dr becker's video where she states they titer vets for rabies and accept that yet do not accept it in dogs- why? Has it been proven in humans that titers work for rabies yet not in dogs? I just found that very interesting that it is acceptible in humans but not in dogs. I never knew it was part of vet school as a requirement to get rabies shots but makes sense since working with animals. I am always trying to learn on this subject matter as it is very interesting the two schools of thought. I just do not feel comfortable doing it in a dog with health issues as I feel it is asking for trouble :(

just wanted to add my dogs are 6 and they have been titered since after one year booster and 6 mos shots for dee dee and I believe they were exposed to parvo with that plumber so 5 1/2 years those puppy shots lasted for dee dee and she is on immune suppressant drugs as well so all i can go by is what I have experienced and this said alot for me. Now was I nervous yes but after talking to all the professionals they acted like my dogs were fine and they asked me were their titers ok and I said yes and they said they should be fine then based on that and having puppy shots. I was surprised as i thought they would have me rush my 3 in for parvo shots but not one recommended it.
 

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just curious why in dr becker's video where she states they titer vets for rabies and accept that yet do not accept it in dogs- why? Has it been proven in humans that titers work for rabies yet not in dogs? I just found that very interesting that it is acceptible in humans but not in dogs. I never knew it was part of vet school as a requirement to get rabies shots but makes sense since working with animals. I am always trying to learn on this subject matter as it is very interesting the two schools of thought. I just do not feel comfortable doing it in a dog with health issues as I feel it is asking for trouble :(

just wanted to add my dogs are 6 and they have been titered since after one year booster and 6 mos shots for dee dee and I believe they were exposed to parvo with that plumber so 5 1/2 years those puppy shots lasted for dee dee and she is on immune suppressant drugs as well so all i can go by is what I have experienced and this said alot for me. Now was I nervous yes but after talking to all the professionals they acted like my dogs were fine and they asked me were their titers ok and I said yes and they said they should be fine then based on that and having puppy shots. I was surprised as i thought they would have me rush my 3 in for parvo shots but not one recommended it.

I'm really glad to see your posts on this subject.

Yes, I too wonder why they accept rabies titers in people but not in dogs, too.

It is simply amazing how many people aren't willing to ponder the thought that there might be underlying political or financial reasons for what goes on in the medical industry. One of my dearest friends is a respected MD, and he shares a lot of info with me that would shock most people.

Look, we're not talking about strays that roam the streets here. We're talking about Maltese dogs that are pampered and well-looked after. Let's not lump all dogs together. There are VAST lifestyle differences.

In this day and age, I believe that it is safer to question everything, and I don't hesitate to encourage others to do so, too. At the end of the day, one can either accept or reject what they've learned. But to blindly accept something from what is perceived as a "higher authority," rather than use one's own brain to research something, is very dangerous, imo. Vets are fallible humans, and they make mistakes, just like doctors, nurses, etc. do too. One can put all sorts of research out there to back up their claims, but research is subjective, and can be manipulated any which way. That is why we must treat each of our dogs as individuals and do what is right for them.

If your dog is not at high risk for disease, then why vaccinate? There are no guarantees in life. There is no guarantee that if you allow your dog to receive a vaccination, that they don't actually get the disease they are being innoculated for. Or that they will not have an allergic reaction to the adjuvants - and have skin issue for years. And if you don't continue to vaccinate after the puppy protocol because your dog's lifestyle doesn't warrant it - yes, there might be a slight risk that your dog might contract a disease. But this is life, there are no guarantees in life, no certainties. And if people think that vaccinations and meds are guarantees, then they are kidding themselves. The medical industry is not God, even though some of them like you to think that they are. So think about it, make a choice, and live with your choice. Do what is right for your dog's lifestyle, and don't let anyone - including a vet, SCARE you into doing what is wrong for you and your dog.
 
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