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Aggression Issue... Serious Problem Help Please

3613 Views 39 Replies 28 Participants Last post by  aprilb
I am at my wit's end and the last couple of days have been really bad...

Is there such a thing as extreme sibling rivalry between two girl dogs in a litter and if there is, is it fixable?

Our situation has always been that Daisy has wanted to be the alpha dog and will growl if Gracie touches her when we're all piled in the bed together, but she hasn't been vicious. Daisy will always bully Gracie into giving up whatever she is chewing on (toy/chewy) and will push her away from whatever food dish Daisy feels like eating out of. Nothing very harmful occurred up til now so we figured it was just them working out dominance issues.

Then this...

Yesterday morning when they were running around playing in their usual puppy style, Gracie let out the biggest cry I have heard and I ran to where she was and found her crying holding a leg up kind of balled over. It was truly heartbreaking. We didn't know if she had pulled a muscle playing or if she was bitten too hard by Daisy by mistake (who still has her 2 very sharp upper canine baby teeth) or what, but we kept her isolated all day so she could rest her leg without being bothered by Daisy wanting to play. By the evening she seemed much better and since we had dinner plans decided to go ahead with them, leaving the dogs as we always have, thinking/hoping it was a pulled muscle which had worked itself out. We came home (only stayed out about an hour and half) to find Gracie holding the same leg off the ground, obviously re-hurt. Now we were suspious Daisy bit her.

Just now when I was petting all the dogs, after Gracie got loved up (I had picked up/loved up Daisy first), Daisy went over to her and bit her hard on that same back leg right in front of me, causing her to cry/lift the leg again so I know for a fact what's going on - she is intentionally trying to seriously hurt her.

George (husband) says I have to get rid of one of the dogs before Gracie is seriously injured. He thinks Daisy needs to be in a home by herself as an only dog). I am wondering if things will change... Daisy is in the middle of her heat cycle, so I'm wondering if this is bringing out extra aggression in a dog already wanting to be alpha. Until we figure out a solution, Daisy is in the x-pen while Pip and Gracie have run of the house. I will put Gracie in the pen later and etc etc, keeping them separated until their heat cycles are over/they get spayed/remaining sharp baby teeth extracted.

I am beside myself right now and don't know what to do.... anyone know anything or have any ideas, I would be so grateful. This sucks beyond anything I have ever experienced with a dog (none of my dogs have ever been undog friendly...) what the heck is going on here???? *no emoticon strong enough to express my stress/sadness level to post here*

(I should mention that it's not always like this...they like hanging out together and kiss each other too, so this is truly perplexing and horrifying) ... OK gonna go ride the treadmill now to work through some stress bbl...
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Oh dear! Unfortunately I can't provide the best advice as I am kinda new to this whole owning a dog thing and Aolani has issues too, but I did want to sympathize with you and hope that someone else can provide you with sound advice.
My advice is not to allow this to go any further.. Get a good dog behaviorist (if that's how you spell it) and get one immediately.. If you let it continue there could be a tragic ending.. Even if she were to go to another family, this behavior most probably continue and the end result could be that she is put down.. This selective aggression is nothing to fool with..I'm going through the same thing, and one of my dogs has been very hurt., so I feel for you truly..It's heart breaking for me and I know it is for you also. Please seek professional help. They say this behavior can be corrected if you get to it immediately, but if you let it go there may not be any way to change this poor behavior.. Good luck...And please keep us posted...
I wish I could help you. Maybe it has something to do with the heat cycle. Maybe after they are spayed the behavior will change.
That's not good. I think I'd consult an animal behaviorist and not let the two together until this
can be evaluated. Poor little Gracie. :(
Heat cycle can make the bitch come out big time. Depends on the dog, but no doubt they do get testier when in heat. I would also keep the girls separate whenever you are not there if there have ever been issues before.
In my opinion, I'd have to agree with your hubby.
This situation sounds dangerous especially since she's biting the other dog and waning to hurt her not just once but several times.
Oh, yes. Heat cycles can most definitely bring out the "B" in a female.
I have heard terrible stories on a Yorkie forum I belong to of intact females fighting to the point of drawing blood, even killing one another. Heat cycles seem to make it much, much worse.

I am no expert, but I tend to agree with your husband. Daisy probably needs to be the only dog in a home or perhaps only be with neutered males.
I don't claim to be an expert, but when Coco wasn't accepting of Lola when she joined our home, Tammy, Lola's breeder, said to take Coco when she was being aggressive with Lola and put her on her back or side and say no to her. Honestly, that worked for that problem. Coco backed off. I'm sure someone here will say not to do that, but it did solve our problems with the dominance situation.

Good luck.
Oh my....that seems very alarming to me. You are doing the right thing about keeping them separated for now. How long do you have Daisy? I don't have any advice...but wanted to give you a big hug...hope the treadmill helped a bit. HUGS
YES the heat cycle can cause this. I would maintain your separation plan and get the dogs spayed immediately. (Personally, if I had confidence in my vet I'd get them spayed now). Chances are with good moderation once the hormones even out things will be fine (and this will take a good month for them to settle).
If the problem persists, then I would re-home one dog. Dog-dog aggression is very difficult to deal with. You can attempt it under a veterinary behaviorist (or PhD), but really rehoming is typically the best plan.
Eileen - no advice here. Just want to say how badly I feel about this and know how much stress you're under. I hope there's some way to resolve it that's best for all of you. :grouphug:
i don't have any advice but wanted to send you wishes for a speedy resolution. i hope your separation plan and spaying the girls helps resolve everything so they can both stay with you. :grouphug:
Just want to express my concern and support for you.
I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this. It's scary and very frightening when you love them both so much. I hope you can find a solution.

I'm wondering how old your girls are why they haven't been spayed yet - were you planning to breed or show?
Oh I'm so sorry. I can truly imagine how heartbreaking this is. Just a thought. Wasn't Gracie adopted out for a little while and you just got her back? I can't remember the timing right now. How long was she gone? I have no idea if this could be part of the problem but I'm just wondering if her being gone for awhile and now coming back is why Daisy is acting this way along with being in heat.
Oh dear! Unfortunately I can't provide the best advice as I am kinda new to this whole owning a dog thing and Aolani has issues too, but I did want to sympathize with you and hope that someone else can provide you with sound advice.
Eileen - no advice here. Just want to say how badly I feel about this and know how much stress you're under. I hope there's some way to resolve it that's best for all of you. :grouphug:
i don't have any advice but wanted to send you wishes for a speedy resolution. i hope your separation plan and spaying the girls helps resolve everything so they can both stay with you. :grouphug:
Just want to express my concern and support for you.
Oh my....that seems very alarming to me. You are doing the right thing about keeping them separated for now. How long do you have Daisy? I don't have any advice...but wanted to give you a big hug...hope the treadmill helped a bit. HUGS
Thank you...I truly appreciate any and all positive thoughts and prayers:heart:

I don't claim to be an expert, but when Coco wasn't accepting of Lola when she joined our home, Tammy, Lola's breeder, said to take Coco when she was being aggressive with Lola and put her on her back or side and say no to her. Honestly, that worked for that problem. Coco backed off. I'm sure someone here will say not to do that, but it did solve our problems with the dominance situation.

Good luck.
The problem is that this is serious biting and I can't chance letting it get to the point like it has the last two days again or may end up with a crippled dog or worse

My advice is not to allow this to go any further.. Get a good dog behaviorist (if that's how you spell it) and get one immediately.. If you let it continue there could be a tragic ending.. Even if she were to go to another family, this behavior most probably continue and the end result could be that she is put down.. This selective aggression is nothing to fool with..I'm going through the same thing, and one of my dogs has been very hurt., so I feel for you truly..It's heart breaking for me and I know it is for you also. Please seek professional help. They say this behavior can be corrected if you get to it immediately, but if you let it go there may not be any way to change this poor behavior.. Good luck...And please keep us posted...
In my opinion, I'd have to agree with your hubby.
This situation sounds dangerous especially since she's biting the other dog and waning to hurt her not just once but several times.
We're going to try the spay/teeth removal/separation route first and see if anything changes

I wish I could help you. Maybe it has something to do with the heat cycle. Maybe after they are spayed the behavior will change.
Heat cycle can make the bitch come out big time. Depends on the dog, but no doubt they do get testier when in heat. I would also keep the girls separate whenever you are not there if there have ever been issues before.
Oh, yes. Heat cycles can most definitely bring out the "B" in a female.
I have heard terrible stories on a Yorkie forum I belong to of intact females fighting to the point of drawing blood, even killing one another. Heat cycles seem to make it much, much worse.

I am no expert, but I tend to agree with your husband. Daisy probably needs to be the only dog in a home or perhaps only be with neutered males.
YES the heat cycle can cause this. I would maintain your separation plan and get the dogs spayed immediately. (Personally, if I had confidence in my vet I'd get them spayed now). Chances are with good moderation once the hormones even out things will be fine (and this will take a good month for them to settle).
If the problem persists, then I would re-home one dog. Dog-dog aggression is very difficult to deal with. You can attempt it under a veterinary behaviorist (or PhD), but really rehoming is typically the best plan.
I pray to God it is just heat cycle related, although there have definitely been signs all along that Daisy doesn't seem to back off her Gracie when she should (more than just stealing all the goodies and whatnot - she is somewhat relentless). Kept thinking it was just puppy stage and she would grow out of it...don't have the luxury of wishful thinking anymore :(

I have a vet appointment for tomorrow morning to get Daisy spayed and have all residual baby teeth removed. She will be isolated in her x-pen as she recovers and probably for up to a month after, as it sounds like it will take about that long for her hormones to level out.

I am grateful to my husband for taking this very seriously as he seems to be respected as the alpha in this household (I'm too soft) and she pulled a number on the walk yesterday (out of control - but didn't let her connect with Gracie) and he forced her into a sit and wouldn't let her up for a long time (even though he had to hold her bottom down). She seems to know that times have changed around here.

I ended up sleeping with Daisy in the office on the daybed since poor Gracie is so scared of her right now. She sits on her hindquarters whenever Daisy is around (guess 3 nasty bites to your hamstring will make you not want to trust your former most of the time buddy at all anymore and I don't blame her). This morning Daisy tried playing with me and her nasty baby canines got me pretty good (didn't draw blood but hook and tear at skin) and I know she wasn't trying to hurt at all. In fact, it almost seemed like she could tell they caught me because she licked and licked afterwards.

So we'll see what happens after the spay... I hope I hope I hope it resolves some issues, but after googling sibling rivalry aggression, it sounds like a fairly common phenomenom between dogs of the same age, predominantly in females. I am just absolutely heartbroken and can't stop crying.

I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this. It's scary and very frightening when you love them both so much. I hope you can find a solution.

I'm wondering how old your girls are why they haven't been spayed yet - were you planning to breed or show?
Well, actually, the vet appointment to get them spayed was just a bit too late (they normally don't like to spay when the dogs go in heat and they went in earlier than we expected). Heavens no breeding or showing here - these puppies were a surprise that came out of one of the two breeder dogs we rescued and were going to rehab and rehome...things took some very strange twists and turns and apparently still are :(

Oh I'm so sorry. I can truly imagine how heartbreaking this is. Just a thought. Wasn't Gracie adopted out for a little while and you just got her back? I can't remember the timing right now. How long was she gone? I have no idea if this could be part of the problem but I'm just wondering if her being gone for awhile and now coming back is why Daisy is acting this way along with being in heat.
You have an excellent memory. Yep, we sensed that Gracie was looking for some peace awhile back and I rehomed her for just a few days with my friend. But she is such an awesomely sweet little dog, who we had become very attached to having had her for 6 months by that time, that I didn't realize how hard it would be for her to no longer have her part of our family and I got her back. In retrospect, should I have? Probably not. But Gracie was also pretty lonely becuase this friend wasn't home as much as she said she was going to be and Gracie went from people/dogs being around all the time to being left alone too much (IMO) and wasn't eating/playing with her toys/seeming to be that happy. I think if someone (which dog? that's such a dilemna since though Daisy has some bad behaviors now she is also a funny and sweet little girl that rests her head on the dishwasher door when I load/unload, fetches and is a pistol in general...and up til now she and Gracie did love each other though Daisy always seemed to push a bit too far they would hang out together and lick each other)... so I don't know what I'm going to do. :crying:

Anyway, thank you again everyone for your support. I may not be around much in the coming bit because I am wrecked over this. Husband really wants to rehome Daisy at this point (would be looking for someone with dog background who is good at training and preferably as an only pet)... but my heart can't bear to think of that yet. So life around here is stressed to the max...while I wait for her spay/baby teeth removal appt tomorrow and praying and hoping for a miracle...

Please keep us all in your prayers...
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Oh, Eileen, I am so sorry you have to go through this. I know your heart is breaking. :crying:
I am sorry for your trouble. I hope that the spaying is a solution and it all works out for you. Hugs to you.
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