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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We took Malitda in for her wellness checkup she has been scratching at her ears the vet pulled the hairs out of her ears, and told me to use a ear cleaning solution. she said she might have allergys. I have been doing this since Monday, last night she kept us both up, i noticed she seems to be scratching more on the outside of her ears. i checked her close, i don't see anything. do any of your furbabies have this problem? the vet changed her kibble to science diet. i don't see any difference. she now weighs 2.3lbs.
 

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Originally posted by MALITDA@Jul 9 2005, 12:05 PM
We took Malitda in for her wellness checkup she has been scratching at her ears the vet pulled the hairs out of her ears, and told me to use a ear cleaning solution. she said she might have allergys. I have been doing this since Monday, last night she kept us both up, i noticed she seems to be scratching more on the outside of her ears. i checked her close, i don't see anything. do any of your furbabies have this problem? the vet changed her kibble to science diet. i don't see any difference. she now weighs 2.3lbs.
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It's possible she is scratching because the ears are irritated from having the hair pulled out. Was she doing this before going to the vet?
I'll bet the vet switched her to Science Diet because that is what he/she sells. You can get better quality food for the same money. Within the last few years Science Diet has had a formula change, and I don't use it anymore.
Also, did the vet check for ear mites? That might be the cause of the scratching.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
yes the vet checked for earmites, the first night i had her she scratched her ears, i called the breeder and she said that they had noticed it, so when they took her to the vet they had him check for earmites and a ear infection. both vets have said she doesn't have either. i had heard science diet wasn't the best. i was surprised when my vet put her on it. she likes it, but i need other suggestions. can a puppy have allegrys? she is such a joy, i hate to see her scratching so much.
 

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I have heard that in vet school there is usually only one class on dog food and it is usually taught by a rep from Science Diet or Eukanuba. Plus most vets sell either Science Diet or Eukanuba. My parents' vet sells Science Diet but she also sells Innova. That is the first vet I have even seen that sells something other then Science Diet and Eukanuba.
 

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I would stop the Science Diet and get on a premium puppy food. Here is some info I've posted before .....

Science Diet Puppy Food
Ground Whole Grain Corn (source of natural digestible carbohydrate & lutein), Chicken By-Product Meal (source of natural protein), Soybean Meal, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a source of vitamin E, and citric acid), Dried Beet Pulp (source of natural dietary fiber), Chicken Liver Flavor, Dicalcium Phosphate, Brewers Rice, Fish Oil (source of natural DHA), Flaxseed (source of natural omega-3 fatty acids & alpha-linolenic acid), Soybean Oil (source of natural omega-6 fatty acids & linoleic acid), Iodized Salt, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamins (L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of stabilized vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate (vitamin B1), Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (vitamin B6), Riboflavin (vitamin B2), Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Potassium Chloride, Minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, a source of vitamin E, and Citric Acid, Beta-Carotene (an antioxidant), Rosemary Extract.


The ingredients that come before the first oil ingredient are the ones that are the most abundant in the food. Here is my take on it:

1st Ingredient Corn: Often an allergin in dogs; A protein source should be the first ingredient
2nd Ingredient: Chicken By-Product Meal--- I woudn't feed my dogs anything with by-product in it
3rd Ingredient Soybean Meal: Often an allergin in dogs
Where is the whole chicken and non-by-product chicken meal?

Here is Royal Canin Small Breed Puppy, Artemis and Innova... just three of the possibilities for you that are much better than Science Diet. K & C used the Royal Canin and it was a good choice for them. They had firm stools and the kibble is very tiny and they had no trouble chewing it. They have never had any allergy problems, no ear scratching or foot chewing... none of that.

They didn't like Innova and I couldn't find Artemis in my town.The ingredients in Artemis and Innova are a bit better, though. Notice how they have no corn and brewers rice (cheap filler).

Royal Canin Small Breed Puppy Food
Chicken meal, chicken, corn gluten meal, brewers rice, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), brown rice, dried egg product, beet pulp, natural chicken flavor, brewer's yeast, salmon oil, potassium chloride, sodium silico aluminate, rice hulls, chicory extract, salt, choline chloride, salmon meal, dried apples, dried blueberries, taurine, vitamin E supplement, brewers yeast extract (Saccharomyces cerevisiae fermentation solubles), ascorbic acid, flax seed, marigold extract, monosodium phosphate, folic acid supplement, zinc oxide, iron sulfate, manganese proteinate, biotin, sage, iron proteinate, copper proteinate, calcium pantothenate, dried ginger, garlic, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, vitamin A supplement, rosemary extract, pyroxidine hydrochloride, sodium selenite, niacin supplement, riboflavin supplement, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin B12 supplement, calcium iodate, vitamin D3 supplement.

Artemis Puppy Food:
Chicken, Turkey, Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Lamb Meal, Brown Rice, Pearled Barley, Chicken Fat (preserved with Vitamin E, C and Rosemary Extract), Oatmeal, Dried Eggs, Fish Meal, Natural Flavoring, Canola Oil, Flaxseed, Fresh Potatoes, Fresh Carrots, Fresh Peas, Whole Fresh Apples, Cranberries, Dried Chicory Root (Prebiotics), Salt, Potassium Chloride, Lecithin, Garlic, DL-Methionine, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Choline Chloride, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Ascorbic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Dehydrated Kelp, Chelates of Zinc, Iron, Manganese, Copper and Cobalt, Potassium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Sage Extract, Aspergillus Oryzae Fermantation Soulubles (Digestive Enzyme), Enterococcus Faecium and Lactobacillus Acidophilus(Probiotics)

Innova Puppy Food
Turkey, chicken, chicken meal, barley, brown rice, cottage cheese, tomatoes, hemp oil, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), flaxseed, potatoes, herring, apples, carrots, alfalfa sprouts, eggs, garlic, dicalcium, phosphate, eggs, garlic, dl-alpha tocopherol, sodium ascorbate, chicory root extract, freeze dried enterococcus faecium fermentation product, freeze dried lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, freeze dried lactobacillus casei fermentation product, freeze dried lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, potassium chloride, choline chloride, calcium carbonate, zinc proteninate, iron protenate, carotene, niacin d-calcium pantothenate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, thiamine mononitrate, pryidoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, folic acid, calcium iodate, biotin
 

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I just had Ruby Jean to the vet a few days ago, and she has alot of itching in her right ear. He said she had wax in there that could be from having an allergy. Were getting that cleared up now and we have to take her back in and see what he says from there. I was surprised he said it could be allergies! Were putting drops in there now twice a day.
 

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Originally posted by Lexi's Mom@Jul 9 2005, 12:34 PM
I have heard that in vet school there is usually only one class on dog food and it is usually taught by a rep from Science Diet or Eukanuba. Plus most vets sell either Science Diet or Eukanuba.  My parents' vet sells Science Diet but she also sells Innova.  That is the first vet I have even seen that sells something other then Science Diet and Eukanuba.
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we had a nutrition class taught by a board certified nutritionist. so this is not true. she taught us how to choose dog food the right way.

is ur dog on science diet or prescription diet z/d?
 

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Originally posted by LadyMontava+Jul 9 2005, 06:02 PM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Lexi's Mom
@Jul 9 2005, 12:34 PM
I have heard that in vet school there is usually only one class on dog food and it is usually taught by a rep from Science Diet or Eukanuba. Plus most vets sell either Science Diet or Eukanuba.  My parents' vet sells Science Diet but she also sells Innova.  That is the first vet I have even seen that sells something other then Science Diet and Eukanuba.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=79800
we had a nutrition class taught by a board certified nutritionist. so this is not true. she taught us how to choose dog food the right way.

is ur dog on science diet or prescription diet z/d?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=79851
[/B][/QUOTE]

Just wondering if perhaps the nuturionist/professor was paid for by the company that owns Science Diet. I had heard that somewhere ??
 

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by the way, chicken, beef, pork, and rice are also common allergens. beef is prob the biggest. so even a product that is w/o byproducts can be bad for allergies. u need a food with a uncommon protein and carb source. proteins like duck, rabbit, venison, or kangaroo. carbs like green pea, potato, oats.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
malitda was on royal canin when i got here. but her breeder said they noticed her scratching her ears , so my vet put her on science diet for puppys. she likes it but she still scratches, i noticed she was biting at her leg this afternoon. i would like to try something else, maybe natural balance(duck, potato) any other ideas
 

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Originally posted by MALITDA@Jul 9 2005, 06:46 PM
malitda was on royal canin when i got here. but her breeder said they noticed her scratching her ears , so my vet put her on science diet for puppys. she likes it but she still scratches, i noticed she was biting at her leg this afternoon. i would like to try something else, maybe natural balance(duck, potato) any other ideas

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I guess you'll need to rule out various ingredients so maybe try something without any corn (such as Innova) and see if that makes a difference. From what I understand there are certain foods that seem to cause more allergy problems than others. Corn and soy are two that are mentioned a lot. But of course, she could be allergic to other things in her food, too.
 

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Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom+Jul 9 2005, 05:11 PM-->
Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 06:02 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Lexi's Mom
@Jul 9 2005, 12:34 PM
I have heard that in vet school there is usually only one class on dog food and it is usually taught by a rep from Science Diet or Eukanuba. Plus most vets sell either Science Diet or Eukanuba.  My parents' vet sells Science Diet but she also sells Innova.  That is the first vet I have even seen that sells something other then Science Diet and Eukanuba.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=79800

we had a nutrition class taught by a board certified nutritionist. so this is not true. she taught us how to choose dog food the right way.

is ur dog on science diet or prescription diet z/d?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=79851

[/QUOTE]

Just wondering if perhaps the nuturionist/professor was paid for by the company that owns Science Diet. I had heard that somewhere ??
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[/B][/QUOTE]

nope she told us she feeds her dogs pedigree didnt push any of the products...just told us what things are needed in each of the life stages, and how to read food labels.
 

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Originally posted by MALITDA@Jul 9 2005, 05:46 PM
malitda was on royal canin when i got here. but her breeder said they noticed her scratching her ears , so my vet put her on science diet for puppys. she likes it but she still scratches, i noticed she was biting at her leg this afternoon. i would like to try something else, maybe natural balance(duck, potato) any other ideas

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[/QUOTE]
that would be good....also have to remember the treats need to have only the same ingredients as the food or u wont know if she is being helped by the diet change. also have to change the heartworm preventative to one that isnt flavored. heargard contains beef and sentinel contains pork and soy. need to have it in a pill form (heartgard has one) or topical like revolution.
 

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Originally posted by LadyMontava+Jul 9 2005, 03:59 PM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-MALITDA
@Jul 9 2005, 05:46 PM
malitda was on royal canin when i got here. but her breeder said they noticed her scratching her ears , so my vet put her on science diet for puppys. she likes it but she still scratches, i noticed she was biting at her leg this afternoon. i would like to try something else, maybe natural balance(duck, potato) any other ideas

<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=79864
that would be good....also have to remember the treats need to have only the same ingredients as the food or u wont know if she is being helped by the diet change. also have to change the heartworm preventative to one that isnt flavored. heargard contains beef and sentinel contains pork and soy. need to have it in a pill form (heartgard has one) or topical like revolution.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=79868
[/B][/QUOTE]

I understand that nutrition may not be emphasized in vet school. Its not even emphasized in med school (we only had one minor class on it). And that's fine...but why does every single vet tries to promote Science Diet? And of course every vet sells it too in their office?
 

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i dont really know why regular vets promote it. it isnt a bad food though. i know why the vet school promotes it...its b/c SD donates all the food to the vetschool and what they sell is profit. but its not like evrydog walks out buying SD. derm usually sends them home w/ IVD for allergies b/c it is cheaper and tastier. but z/d works just as well. i guess it depends on the vet. my own pets eat it b/c i get it for really cheap, and i see no problems with it. but parker is on a prescription diet so i dont have many options for him.
 

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Originally posted by okw@Jul 9 2005, 07:11 PM
I understand that nutrition may not be emphasized in vet school.  Its not even emphasized in med school (we only had one minor class on it).  And that's fine...but why does every single vet tries to promote Science Diet?  And of course every vet sells it too in their office?
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[/QUOTE]

The Hill's Company that makes Science Diet was very, very smart it its marketing... they did something other companies hadn't done and that was to sell primarily through vet's offices. Brilliant idea! Now, the food is widely available at stores, too, except for the Prescription Diet recipes. But that was one shrewd move to market the way they did.
 

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Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom+Jul 9 2005, 04:26 PM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-okw
@Jul 9 2005, 07:11 PM
I understand that nutrition may not be emphasized in vet school.  Its not even emphasized in med school (we only had one minor class on it).  And that's fine...but why does every single vet tries to promote Science Diet?  And of course every vet sells it too in their office?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=79872
The Hill's Company that makes Science Diet was very, very smart it its marketing... they did something other companies hadn't done and that was to sell primarily through vet's offices. Brilliant idea! Now, the food is widely available at stores, too, except for the Prescription Diet recipes. But that was one shrewd move to market the way they did.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=79877
[/B][/QUOTE]

I don't know...it just sounds kind of wrong (even if its only food) that a vet would promote a product that he is getting direct profits from.
 

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Originally posted by okw+Jul 10 2005, 09:22 AM-->
Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's [email protected] 9 2005, 04:26 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-okw
@Jul 9 2005, 07:11 PM
I understand that nutrition may not be emphasized in vet school.  Its not even emphasized in med school (we only had one minor class on it).  And that's fine...but why does every single vet tries to promote Science Diet?  And of course every vet sells it too in their office?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=79872


The Hill's Company that makes Science Diet was very, very smart it its marketing... they did something other companies hadn't done and that was to sell primarily through vet's offices. Brilliant idea! Now, the food is widely available at stores, too, except for the Prescription Diet recipes. But that was one shrewd move to market the way they did.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=79877

[/QUOTE]

I don't know...it just sounds kind of wrong (even if its only food) that a vet would promote a product that he is getting direct profits from.
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[/B][/QUOTE]

The company has probably told them how "good" the food is, etc. If people ask about what food to use, Vets might like being able to offer this "good" food to their clients not realizing that many of their recipes have ethoxyquin and other undersirable ingredients in them.
 

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Do you have carpet in your home. Someone here posted a few weeks ago there puppy was alergic to the carpet so they pulled it up.
 

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Originally posted by okw+Jul 10 2005, 08:22 AM-->
Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's [email protected] 9 2005, 04:26 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-okw
@Jul 9 2005, 07:11 PM
I understand that nutrition may not be emphasized in vet school.  Its not even emphasized in med school (we only had one minor class on it).  And that's fine...but why does every single vet tries to promote Science Diet?  And of course every vet sells it too in their office?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=79872


The Hill's Company that makes Science Diet was very, very smart it its marketing... they did something other companies hadn't done and that was to sell primarily through vet's offices. Brilliant idea! Now, the food is widely available at stores, too, except for the Prescription Diet recipes. But that was one shrewd move to market the way they did.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=79877

[/QUOTE]

I don't know...it just sounds kind of wrong (even if its only food) that a vet would promote a product that he is getting direct profits from.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=80035
[/B][/QUOTE]
its not profit for the vet...its profit for the school.

there is nothing wrong with science diet. i would only feed my animals a food that has been afco approved and food trial tested. being food trial tested is the most important. science diet would not be around if it was as bad as u say.

a little infor on ethoxyquin
CHAPTER I--FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES (CONTINUED)

PART 172--FOOD ADDITIVES PERMITTED FOR DIRECT ADDITION TO FOOD FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION--Table of Contents

Subpart B--Food Preservatives

Sec. 172.140 Ethoxyquin.

(a) Ethoxyquin (1,2-dihydro-6-ethoxy-2,2,4-trimethylquinoline) may be safely used as an antioxidant for preservation of color in the production of chili powder, paprika, and ground chili at levels not in excess of 100 parts per million.
(
In order to provide for the safe use of the additive in feed prepared in accordance with Secs. 573.380 and 573.400 of this chapter, tolerances are established for residues of ethoxyquin in or on edible products of animals as follows:

5 parts per million in or on the uncooked fat of meat from animals
except poultry.
3 parts per million in or on the uncooked liver and fat of poultry.
0.5 part per million in or on the uncooked muscle meat of animals.
0.5 part per million in poultry eggs.
Zero in milk.


its kinda like the whole artificial sweetener debate.
 
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