[ButterCloudandNoriko]

Someone told me they either found out about or checked out their breeder through the BBB. Anyone ever did that? How do you go about doing that?

 

[LexiAndNikkisMom]

I think I did this when I was researching Lexi's breeder. Don't remember the site though.

 

[k/c mom]

Originally posted by ButterCloudandNoriko@Nov 5 2004, 04:32 PM
Someone told me they either found out about or checked out their breeder through the BBB.  Anyone ever did that?  How do you go about doing that?
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[/QUOTE]

The Better Business Bureau takes complaints from customers that have had a problem with the business; i.e., not getting what they ordered, getting defective goods. Then they send a copy of the complaint to the business that can refute or whatever. As long as the business answers and explains their side of it, they are pretty much in good stead with the Bureau. The Bureau is structured to be serve businesses because they are the ones that pay dues to belong, which financially supports the organization.

Checking with the BBB could tell you if the breeder had done something such as taken a deposit and not delivered the dog as promised, etc. It would not help concerning the quality of the puppy. Lots of back-yard breeders probably aren't even licensed businesses, in which case the Bureau probably wouldn't represent them anyway.

 

[Ladysmom]

Kallie and Catcher's mom is right, although in a huge case like Jennie Siliski and the Hollybelle Maltese, there were BBB complaints.This was most likely because of the publicity and the encouragement from MO to file complaints. Your State Attorney General's Office also handles consumer fraud cases through it's office.

Here's a link where you can locate your local BBB to check on your breeder. For those of you who got your puppies from a pet shop, check for them also.

http://www.bbbonline.org/

I don't know what sort of health guarentee you got with Cloud, but I know you just found out about his luxating patellas and you said your breeder didn't offer any refund, assistance with vet bills, etc. You could certainly file a complaint with the BBB. Many times that will "encourage" a business to resolve an issue to clear their name.

Several states have "lemon laws" that apply to puppies, too.

 

[ButterCloudandNoriko]

Hey Lady's mom. I wasn't thinking of filing a complaint to BBB. I was curious of other altneratives that will help anyone (or me in the future) find a reputable breeder.

But, from what I read of bbb and what you guys say about it, it seems as though you should hesitiate if there business name is filed with the bbb because their names are on there because someone made a complaint on the business? Did that make sense? Like it may be a good thing that they're in good standings with the BBB, but doesn't it show that you had complaints?

Also, in order for you to check any businesses, the business have to register themselves in the BBB, right? So if you file a complaint on a business and they're not registered, then there's no use?

 

[Toby's Mom]

 

[Ladysmom]

Yes, that's right about BBB's. The consumer fraud section of your state's attorney general's office is really your best bet to file a complaint or find out if complaints have been filed against a company or individual.

Cloud's mom, as far as finding a good breeder, the best thing is to get the breeder referral list offered for free by the American Maltese Association (yes, it's the same list Jay charges $5 for!). You can download it here:

http://www.americanmaltese.org/

Another resource would be your veterinarian. My sister manages a vet office here in North Carolina and one of their clients is Maltese breeder. They have cared for her dogs for many years and my sister said they are the healtliest Maltese she has ever seen. (They see a lot with bad knees and bad dispositions people got elsewhere). If and when I get another one and if I decide not to adopt a rescue again, I would get a puppy from this breeder as Lady's health problems have just about bankrupt me.

Just remember to always cross check the USDA list as any facility licensed with the USDA is a puppymill:

http://prisonersofgreed.org/lista02.pdf

You can also check out a broker for USDA licensing:

http://prisonersofgreed.org/listb02.pdf

The same applies to brokers, although registered with the USDA or not, you should never get a puppy through a broker. A good breeder woud never ever sell a puppy to a third party and have no idea where her "baby" is going. A good breeder screens potential buyers. Besides, you should always see BOTH parents before buying a puppy and see how they were raised. There is a trememdous difference in personality between a puppy who was home raised around people and kept with it's mother and littermates until 12 weeks old and a puppy born in a wire cage in a barn with little human contact who is taken from its mother at 5 weeks old.

 

[doctorcathy]

ok, so on that list, LLOYD BUCK from Marshfield, MO is listed as having a USDA license. so my dogs are from a puppymill?

 

[Ladysmom]

Unfortunately, Dr. Cathy, they are. The USDA currently requires that anyone with 4 or more intact bitches who sells to pet shops or brokers be licensed with them. And did you know that Missouri is one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, puppy mill state in this country?

A few Midwestern states are home to the largest concentration of puppy mills in the country, the majority of which are USDA licensed. Many of the operators of these puppy mills hold other jobs and utilize mass-production methods to produce what they and government regulators consider an agricultural commodity. In a typical puppy mill the dogs are fed in the morning and again in the evening. Cleaning, sanitation and general maintenance are addressed as time permits, usually during the weekend, if at all. Most of these facilities are in rural areas and are family operated to supplement a modest income. In previous years USDA inspectors conducted at least one unannounced inspection per year at these facilities, however, federal authorities have recently adopted a "risk based" inspection program. Operators are given the opportunity to correct non-compliant items (technically, violations of federal law) that are disclosed during the inspection. If upon reinspection the violation or "non-compliant item" is not corrected, enforcement action should be taken in an effort to improve conditions at the facility. Inspection policies have deteriorated to such an extent that operators of these facilities can operate indefinitely with repeated disclosure of "non-compliant items." The emphasis has dramatically shifted from the "welfare" of the animals to commerce. A factor that no doubt has contributed to this phenomenon is the decline in traditional small family farms.

Although some of the larger breeders house thousands of dogs in their facilities the average puppy mill will house between 65 and 75 animals, most housed in hutch-style cages with wire floors. Fecal matter drops to the ground below and waste accumulates beneath the cage, providing a haven for flies and other vermin. Even with fairly prompt removal of waste the ground becomes permeated with stench because the urine cannot be raked away. Dogs housed in indoor facilities endure an equally deplorable existence with ammonia vapors and odors permeating poorly ventilated buildings. Rodents, flies, and other pests plague the animals almost constantly. Solid surfaces are supposed to protect the legs of puppies; however, as they mature and scout out their surroundings feet and legs often fall through wire floors designed to allow fecal matter to fall through. The resulting injuries compound their misery. Their soft coats of fur become soiled with fecal matter that didn't drop through the
cage adding insult to injury.

I don't know where you got your dogs, but if you buy from a pet shop it's pretty easy to assume they are puppy mill pups. Some people, however, are really surprised when they go through a broker, to find out their puppy is puppy mill puppy. A gal on another forum thought she was getting a female puppy from a top breeder who was only being sold because since she was so small at 4 months, her breeder knew she couldn't be bred or shown. She traced her origin and found out she really came from a mill in Kansas.

 

[ButterCloudandNoriko]

Hey Ladysmom--I already have 2 maltese so I'm not able to get anymore anytime soon *cries*. That's ok. I just thought this topic is something new and interesting to talk about.

 

[mee]

Originally posted by LadysMom@Nov 6 2004, 03:27 PM
the best thing is to get the breeder referral list offered for free by the American Maltese Association (yes, it's the same list Jay charges $5 for!). You can download it here: 

http://www.americanmaltese.org/

i heard that the list Jay sells online is a little different from the free one on the maltese association page... :new_Eyecrazy: im confused now...

 

[k/c mom]

Originally posted by mee@Nov 13 2004, 01:49 AM
i heard that the list Jay sells online is a little different from the free one on the maltese association page... :new_Eyecrazy: im confused now...
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Mee, I bought the MO list in October 2004. I have just now gone to the AMA site to compare the lists. They are not identical. I started a new thread in the Breeders section outlining the results of my comparison....

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/index.php?...t=0&#entry16244

 

[beachgirl]

Ladysmom, I see the name of my breeder on the B list (http://prisonersofgreed.org/listb02.pdf)
what does that mean? Is she a broker? How do I go about tracing my puppys origin, I am so upset right now.