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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is in response to the poster who asked under another topic about full/limited registration and the difference in pricing. I can only tell you what it means here, but maybe this will be helpful to you.

Full registration is for a dog that is deemed worthy of completing his/her championship. In turn, this dog is expected to be one that would be bred, if the owner so chose.

Limited registration is for dogs who are sold as pets and not for breeding. They can compete in obedience competition, but not conformation events. These pups are those who may have incorrect coat, poor or missing pigment, not the right tail set, bad bite, only one testicle in males, not enough neck, not the face a breeder is going for, or may not be the correct size. In some instances dogs may actually have no flaw when sold, but may be sold on limited to let them go at 12 weeks, rather than keeping them for six to eight months to see if they are headed for the show ring.

Naturally, a dog of superior quality, kept for six to eight months, and deemed worthy of a championship and breeding would cost more than one that is judged to have a flaw and/or not be sold for breeding. You might expect to pay as much as twice the amount for a dog with full registration. In some cases, I'll even sell a male for about 1/3 what one would be sold for if for show because there is not as much demand for males.
 

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I asked this question in another thread. It was discussed a little bit, but I would be curious to hear your take.....Do you have many/any people who want to buy a "show" dog that they don't plan to show? Would you sell to them and would you give them full registration even if they aren't planning to show? I realize that some breeders might not have time to show every dog that could potentially get the championship points. I am just wondering how many people want the absolute best example of the breed and are willing to pay the price even if they don't plan to show, or breed. And what if someone wanted a show dog but wasn't going to show it? Would you give them the full registration, or would you give them the limited? I don't plan to ever show or breed, I am just curious because I think that the dog world is very interesting....
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I asked this question in another thread. It was discussed a little bit, but I would be curious to hear your take.....Do you have many/any people who want to buy a "show" dog that they don't plan to show? Would you sell to them and would you give them full registration even if they aren't planning to show? I realize that some breeders might not have time to show every dog that could potentially get the championship points. I am just wondering how many people want the absolute best example of the breed and are willing to pay the price even if they don't plan to show, or breed. And what if someone wanted a show dog but wasn't going to show it? Would you give them the full registration, or would you give them the limited? I don't plan to ever show or breed, I am just curious because I think that the dog world is very interesting....[/B]

I've not had that many pups for sale, so it hasn't come up here. I do know there are people who want show quality and have no interest in showing or breeding. There are breeders who will sell them one like this; however, there is no reason to do full registration, as that just says the dog can show in conformation and its offspring can be registered with AKC.
 

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I have a show point question LucyLou....do Maltese...win any EXTRA points in a more famous competition like the one yesterday on NBC put on by Pedigree or the Eucanuba Show or Westminster.... than they would for a small local show or is it always the same?
What kind of points do you get when you win Toy Group? Do you still only get one point for each dog beaten even if you are not competing against your own breed then? Is it still one point for each dog regardless of the breed? Thank you.

~carole and bella~
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I have a show point question LucyLou....do Maltese...win any EXTRA points in a more famous competition like the one yesterday on NBC put on by Pedigree or the Eucanuba Show or Westminster.... than they would for a small local show or is it always the same?
What kind of points do you get when you win Toy Group? Do you still only get one point for each dog beaten even if you are not competing against your own breed then? Is it still one point for each dog regardless of the breed? Thank you.

~carole and bella~[/B]

When you win group position in the toy breed, you get the number of points for all dogs you defeated within that group. Then, when you win BIS, you get all the points for the dogs defeated in all the groups. I think when we were specialing our Westie, we had 1200 to 1600 points with BIS several times, so we went way out there fast. We stayed #1 almost from the time we started showing him, until he retired. I've had two breed wins at Westminister with him, but we didn't get group placement, so we just got the points within our breed. In group placement, there are points for four dogs, but in BIS, it's winner take all for those.
It's a mind game in that the handlers with the top dogs will sign up for several shows, then go where they think they can win. They have a rapport with certain judges, and they also keep up with what judges look for. If a handler finds out another person is going to be there, they may go elsewhere. Our handlers in California liked to keep people guessing, and we all had a lot of fun with it, as people would "stay away from us".
 

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I have a show point question LucyLou....do Maltese...win any EXTRA points in a more famous competition like the one yesterday on NBC put on by Pedigree or the Eucanuba Show or Westminster.... than they would for a small local show or is it always the same?
What kind of points do you get when you win Toy Group? Do you still only get one point for each dog beaten even if you are not competing against your own breed then? Is it still one point for each dog regardless of the breed? Thank you.

~carole and bella~[/B]

When you win group position in the toy breed, you get the number of points for all dogs you defeated within that group. Then, when you win BIS, you get all the points for the dogs defeated in all the groups. I think when we were specialing our Westie, we had 1200 to 1600 points with BIS several times, so we went way out there fast. We stayed #1 almost from the time we started showing him, until he retired. I've had two breed wins at Westminister with him, but we didn't get group placement, so we just got the points within our breed. In group placement, there are points for four dogs, but in BIS, it's winner take all for those.
It's a mind game in that the handlers with the top dogs will sign up for several shows, then go where they think they can win. They have a rapport with certain judges, and they also keep up with what judges look for. If a handler finds out another person is going to be there, they may go elsewhere. Our handlers in California liked to keep people guessing, and we all had a lot of fun with it, as people would "stay away from us".
[/B]

That was fascinating to me, LucyLou.
Lets see if I am getting it .....Your Maltese takes breed against eighteen other Maltese entered....you get 18 points added to your previous total points....you then go on to take group against twenty other other best of (toy) winners so you add 20 points to your new total.....then you go on to take BIS against ALL the dogs entered ..say 1000....so you get one point for each dog at the show....0r 1000 MORE added to your total. So at that show you just won BIS at ...you earned 1038 points. Do I have it?


I do think I understand that for those at the very top...there is a lot of strategy that goes into it... of where to go and what judges are judging ...the judges preferences in type..etc.....Plus there is TONS of politics going on in the show room.....and all the way up through the AMA. One really does have to be in it for the LOVE of the breed to put up with a lot of that stuff...especially the politics.


EDIT: I think I may still have the Best of Group Points wrong.....Saying there are twenty "Best of breed (toy) winners out in the ring for the competion for Best of Group Winner. If you win Best of Group (toy) do you get points for just those twenty you beat..... or points for ALL the dogs beaten by the OTHER toy group winners as well? Sorry to be THICK.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I have a show point question LucyLou....do Maltese...win any EXTRA points in a more famous competition like the one yesterday on NBC put on by Pedigree or the Eucanuba Show or Westminster.... than they would for a small local show or is it always the same?
What kind of points do you get when you win Toy Group? Do you still only get one point for each dog beaten even if you are not competing against your own breed then? Is it still one point for each dog regardless of the breed? Thank you.

~carole and bella~[/B]

When you win group position in the toy breed, you get the number of points for all dogs you defeated within that group. Then, when you win BIS, you get all the points for the dogs defeated in all the groups. I think when we were specialing our Westie, we had 1200 to 1600 points with BIS several times, so we went way out there fast. We stayed #1 almost from the time we started showing him, until he retired. I've had two breed wins at Westminister with him, but we didn't get group placement, so we just got the points within our breed. In group placement, there are points for four dogs, but in BIS, it's winner take all for those.
It's a mind game in that the handlers with the top dogs will sign up for several shows, then go where they think they can win. They have a rapport with certain judges, and they also keep up with what judges look for. If a handler finds out another person is going to be there, they may go elsewhere. Our handlers in California liked to keep people guessing, and we all had a lot of fun with it, as people would "stay away from us".
[/B]

That was fascinating to me, LucyLou.
Lets see if I am getting it .....Your Maltese takes breed against eighteen other Maltese entered....you get 18 points added to your previous total points....you then go on to take group against twenty other other best of (toy) winners so you add 20 points to your new total.....then you go on to take BIS against ALL the dogs entered ..say 1000....so you get one point for each dog at the show....0r 1000 MORE added to your total. So at that show you just won BIS at ...you earned 1038 points. Do I have it?


I do think I understand that for those at the very top...there is a lot of strategy that goes into it... of where to go and what judges are judging ...the judges preferences in type..etc.....Plus there is TONS of politics going on in the show room.....and all the way up through the AMA. One really does have to be in it for the LOVE of the breed to put up with a lot of that stuff...especially the politics.


EDIT: I think I may still have the Best of Group Points wrong.....Saying there are twenty "Best of breed (toy) winners out in the ring for the competion for Best of Group Winner. If you win Best of Group (toy) do you get points for just those twenty you beat..... or points for ALL the dogs beaten by the OTHER toy group winners as well? Sorry to be THICK.

[/B]

You get the total for all the toys in the Toy Group that you defeat, if you get a Group I. For group, you can get a Group II, III, or IV.
 

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Thanks LucyLou.
I think I sort of understand it.....but I am going to have to get myself to some shows... to truly get the hang of the point system.


~carole and bella~
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks LucyLou.
I think I sort of understand it.....but I am going to have to get myself to some shows... to truly get the hang of the point system.


~carole and bella~[/B]

Carole, you need to just go on and bite the bullet. Get you a good dog for show. I hope you already have a motorhome, because you will need one of those too. I think you and I are about the same age. It's a great way to spend your time, and it's also a good way to spend your children's inheritance
 

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Another point to add. If you purchase a retiree, they often come spayed and with full registration. At the end, I believe full/limited really makes no difference unless you are planning to show or breed. I do beleive some breeders sell their Maltese with limited registration to protect their lines and deter people from breeding. I can't say it is a bad idea.

I don't even register my "pets" like Nibbler and Waffle. I did not register them with AKC although I have all their pedigrees. That is enough for me to know their lines. They will never be bred so there is no need for full registration and limited is a useless piece of paper that doesn't mean anything to me. I trust the breeders and know they are not lying about their heritage plus the registration forms tell it all.
 

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Thanks LucyLou.
I think I sort of understand it.....but I am going to have to get myself to some shows... to truly get the hang of the point system.


~carole and bella~[/B]

Carole, you need to just go on and bite the bullet. Get you a good dog for show. I hope you already have a motorhome, because you will need one of those too. I think you and I are about the same age. It's a great way to spend your time, and it's also a good way to spend your children's inheritance

[/B]

Hummmm.....wonder if Santa can fit a motorhome in his sleigh? :lol:



As for the Full vs. Limited Registration....I totally agree with you, Charmaine....Without limited registrations the breeders wouldn't have any control over what happened with their lines.
I think they are a good thing for the betterment of the Maltese breed. I have the registration forms to register Bella with a limited registration with AKC but I don't really see the point in registering a pet, (though a gorgeous pet) and don't understand why folks do??? She was spayed right after I got her and will never be shown or bred. I can see registering a show Maltese who will breed but not the pets who will never produce. What would be the reasoning for registering a pet Maltese? I would like to hear why some folks spend the money to do it ....what they feel the advantage is?
 

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I would like to hear why some folks spend the money to do it ....what they feel the advantage is?
[/B]

I register my pets if I plan to do obedience or agility. It is just easier than getting an ILP number later. Of course, limited registration is just fine for performance events.
 

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I would like to hear why some folks spend the money to do it ....what they feel the advantage is?
[/B]

I register my pets if I plan to do obedience or agility. It is just easier than getting an ILP number later. Of course, limited registration is just fine for performance events.
[/B]

Ahhhhhhh...yes......It does make sense for obedience or agility angels to to registered.
Thanks for replying to my question, JMM.
That is what I love about the forum...information available at one's fingertips.
What is an ILP number?
 

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Yes, I agree about obedience and agility. The problem with me is that I am in Canada and the last time I asked .. I needed full AKC registration to register them with CKC for even obedience and agility.
 
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