[Kissyfur]

Hi,

I was wondering if this has happened to any of you before. Everytime I (it's just me for some reason) try to remove Maggie's collar she snarls and tries to attack me. She is fine when my Mom or Dad try to remove it and I can't think of anytime when I have jerked at her collar, tugged on it or been rough...ever! And, it wasn't on too tight or anything like that...but for some reason she gets really agitated when I try to remove it (no other time). Any ideas on what this pooch may be thinking?

Thanks!

 

[LexiAndNikkisMom]

Lexi used to do that when she was a puppy when I removed her harness. She didn't like it when I had to take it over her head. I got a different harness and she was fine.

Not sure what advice to give you but this is not a behavior you want to let go on. I would recommend talking to a trainer. They can maybe view when the behavior happens and tell you what is going wrong.

 

[doctorcathy]

thats really creepy. i've never had that happen to me. maybe offer treats while you take off the collar? and do it a lot. and offer a positive experience when you take off the collar and praise like crazy when she doesnt attack.


so when you go near the dog, in one hand have a treat with peanut butter on it (cuz it takes a while to eat) and the other hand to take off the collar. the dog should be distracted while you unsnap thecollar.

 

[Furbaby's Mommie]

Frosty has almost always tried to bite DH when he starts to take Frosty's harness off. We have never been able to figure it out. My theory was until recently that he must have pulled hair or hurt him in some way at some time when removing it. Now that he has decided to bite me also when I try to groom him, or handle him in any way, if he says "NO"---- I just don't know. It's probably too late for training given that he is now deaf........If I could go back 13 years I would have a trainer or behaviorist helping with any sign of aggression as soon as it happens. I was stupidly stubborn about all his little quirks, thinking I could psyche him out. What I know now is he was way too smart and mentally complicated, and I wasn't thinking like a dog! To figure out why an animal is doing something you have to know how their thinking process works, which is governed by doggy genes, pack instinct and body language, etc. I'd had various breeds of dogs all my life (Looooong life) with no problems, so I thought I could figure out one little white furkid. Wrong! I've never run across as complicated a thinking process as he has---be it human or animal.
So I'd definitely consult a trainer, especially if you see any other signs of temper. Try to find someone who has worked with toy dogs. I think there is a huge difference in training a toy and a larger breed, particularly with aggressive signs. :excl:

 

[TuckersMom]

Originally posted by Frosty's Mom@Jul 25 2005, 11:32 AM

Frosty has almost always tried to bite DH when he starts to take Frosty's harness off. We have never been able to figure it out. My theory was until recently that he must have pulled hair or hurt him in some way at some time when removing it. Now that he has decided to bite me also when I try to groom him, or handle him in any way, if he says "NO"---- I just don't know. It's probably too late for training given that he is now deaf........If I could go back 13 years I would have a trainer or behaviorist helping with any sign of aggression as soon as it happens. I was stupidly stubborn about all his little quirks, thinking I could psyche him out. What I know now is he was way too smart and mentally complicated, and I wasn't thinking like a dog! To figure out why an animal is doing something you have to know how their thinking process works, which is governed by doggy genes, pack instinct and body language, etc. I'd had various breeds of dogs all my life (Looooong life) with no problems, so I thought I could figure out one little white furkid. Wrong! I've never run across as complicated a thinking process as he has---be it human or animal.
So I'd definitely consult a trainer, especially if you see any other signs of temper. Try to find someone who has worked with toy dogs. I think there is a huge difference in training a toy and a larger breed, particularly with aggressive signs. :excl:
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84267

[/QUOTE]

 

[CoriMalte]

This exact same thing happened to me with the dog I grew up with. It was just me, my mom and dad plus our dalmatian. She was one of those "I want to be alpha" dogs, and since it was clear that my mom and dad were above her in the "pecking order" she always battled with me for third place.

She would get right off the sofa for my mom or dad, but not me. With me she would growl and snarl- very scary. Same with leashes and food... I believe it was because she was trying to prove she was higher than me in the group.

I wish we would have nipped it in the butt because until the day she passed away she always threatened me. Pretty sad actually, but then again I was only 7 when we got her so I suppose I makes some sense.

 

[TuckersMom]

My dog has done this to me when I try to take something out of his mouth, he also bit me a couple of times while taking something from his mouth. Hubby told me to spank him and don't ever let him get away with snarling at me and biting, even the lady I got him from said the same thing, but I don't like to spank such a small dog, although I did after he did it a couple of times. He really is usually such a sweet dog, but when he gets something he shouldn't have in his mouth, he just doesn't want to let go. He doesn't do it to my husband though. I think he knows mom is just a big softie and daddy isn't, LOL.

 

[LexiAndNikkisMom]

Originally posted by TuckersMom@Jul 25 2005, 02:39 PM
My dog has done this to me when I try to take something out of his mouth, he also bit me a couple of times while taking something from his mouth.  Hubby told me to spank him and don't ever let him get away with snarling at me and biting, even the lady I got him from said the same thing, but I don't like to spank such a small dog, although I did after he did it a couple of times.  He really is usually such a sweet dog, but when he gets something he shouldn't have in his mouth, he just doesn't want to let go.  He doesn't do it to my husband though.  I think he knows mom is just a big softie and daddy isn't, LOL.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84335

[/QUOTE]
You need to teach him that those are not his toys, they are actually yours. I would suggest trying the Nothing In Life Is Free Program. You don't have to do all of the things they suggest. If you are having problems with just toys and not food then just try the part about toys.

 

[TuckersMom]

Originally posted by Lexi's Mom+Jul 25 2005, 02:51 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-TuckersMom

@Jul 25 2005, 02:39 PM
My dog has done this to me when I try to take something out of his mouth, he also bit me a couple of times while taking something from his mouth.  Hubby told me to spank him and don't ever let him get away with snarling at me and biting, even the lady I got him from said the same thing, but I don't like to spank such a small dog, although I did after he did it a couple of times.  He really is usually such a sweet dog, but when he gets something he shouldn't have in his mouth, he just doesn't want to let go.  He doesn't do it to my husband though.  I think he knows mom is just a big softie and daddy isn't, LOL.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84335

You need to teach him that those are not his toys, they are actually yours. I would suggest trying the Nothing In Life Is Free Program. You don't have to do all of the things they suggest. If you are having problems with just toys and not food then just try the part about toys.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84337
[/B][/QUOTE]

Actually, the things he had in his mouth were things he found in the yard, like pine cones and even worse, some bones from a dead animal that had been drug into our yard, agghhh!!! We don't have a fence, and almost all the neighborhood dogs run loose, and really seem to like our yard to bring their disgusting things. They even do their business in our yard, and of course Tucker likes to eat that too. YUCK!!! If I see it before he does, then I keep him away from it, but sometimes he finds it before I do. He doesn't eat his own poop though. Sometimes I wish he would eat his and not the other animals, because atleast I know he doesn't have any diseases or worms. Who knows what these other animals have. Sorry, kinda went off a completely different subject there.

 

[LexiAndNikkisMom]

Originally posted by TuckersMom+Jul 25 2005, 03:00 PM-->

Originally posted by Lexi's [email protected] 25 2005, 02:51 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-TuckersMom

@Jul 25 2005, 02:39 PM
My dog has done this to me when I try to take something out of his mouth, he also bit me a couple of times while taking something from his mouth.  Hubby told me to spank him and don't ever let him get away with snarling at me and biting, even the lady I got him from said the same thing, but I don't like to spank such a small dog, although I did after he did it a couple of times.  He really is usually such a sweet dog, but when he gets something he shouldn't have in his mouth, he just doesn't want to let go.  He doesn't do it to my husband though.  I think he knows mom is just a big softie and daddy isn't, LOL.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84335

You need to teach him that those are not his toys, they are actually yours. I would suggest trying the Nothing In Life Is Free Program. You don't have to do all of the things they suggest. If you are having problems with just toys and not food then just try the part about toys.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84337

[/QUOTE]

Actually, the things he had in his mouth were things he found in the yard, like pine cones and even worse, some bones from a dead animal that had been drug into our yard, agghhh!!! We don't have a fence, and almost all the neighborhood dogs run loose, and really seem to like our yard to bring their disgusting things. They even do their business in our yard, and of course Tucker likes to eat that too. YUCK!!! If I see it before he does, then I keep him away from it, but sometimes he finds it before I do. He doesn't eat his own poop though. Sometimes I wish he would eat his and not the other animals, because atleast I know he doesn't have any diseases or worms. Who knows what these other animals have. Sorry, kinda went off a completely different subject there.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84340
[/B][/QUOTE]

Have you taught him the drop it command?

 

[TuckersMom]

Originally posted by Lexi's Mom+Jul 25 2005, 03:07 PM-->

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2005, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by Lexi's [email protected] 25 2005, 02:51 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-TuckersMom

@Jul 25 2005, 02:39 PM
My dog has done this to me when I try to take something out of his mouth, he also bit me a couple of times while taking something from his mouth.  Hubby told me to spank him and don't ever let him get away with snarling at me and biting, even the lady I got him from said the same thing, but I don't like to spank such a small dog, although I did after he did it a couple of times.  He really is usually such a sweet dog, but when he gets something he shouldn't have in his mouth, he just doesn't want to let go.  He doesn't do it to my husband though.  I think he knows mom is just a big softie and daddy isn't, LOL.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84335

You need to teach him that those are not his toys, they are actually yours. I would suggest trying the Nothing In Life Is Free Program. You don't have to do all of the things they suggest. If you are having problems with just toys and not food then just try the part about toys.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84337

Actually, the things he had in his mouth were things he found in the yard, like pine cones and even worse, some bones from a dead animal that had been drug into our yard, agghhh!!! We don't have a fence, and almost all the neighborhood dogs run loose, and really seem to like our yard to bring their disgusting things. They even do their business in our yard, and of course Tucker likes to eat that too. YUCK!!! If I see it before he does, then I keep him away from it, but sometimes he finds it before I do. He doesn't eat his own poop though. Sometimes I wish he would eat his and not the other animals, because atleast I know he doesn't have any diseases or worms. Who knows what these other animals have. Sorry, kinda went off a completely different subject there.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84340

Have you taught him the drop it command?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84343
[/B][/QUOTE]
I have tried. We went through puppy basic training at petsmart. And the trainer did go over drop it with us, but Tucker is a little stubborn and drop it was not one of his better qualities, although I have to say that the training was great and did make a difference. I think we both learned a lot. Unfortunately, with him, drop it usually only works if I have something else to offer for trade, like a yummy treat.

 

[k/c mom]

Originally posted by TuckersMom@Jul 25 2005, 03:39 PM
My dog has done this to me when I try to take something out of his mouth, he also bit me a couple of times while taking something from his mouth.  Hubby told me to spank him and don't ever let him get away with snarling at me and biting, even the lady I got him from said the same thing, but I don't like to spank such a small dog, although I did after he did it a couple of times.  He really is usually such a sweet dog, but when he gets something he shouldn't have in his mouth, he just doesn't want to let go.  He doesn't do it to my husband though.  I think he knows mom is just a big softie and daddy isn't, LOL.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84335

[/QUOTE]

I am very passionate about this subject so ...... I have never seen any kind of dog training book whatsoever that recommends hitting a dog, not even a big dog. Please do not spank your baby.

He will not even know why you are spanking him. And it is not his fault that he is doing this.. he is being a dog. It is up to you to teach your dog manners. He may even think of himself as your alpha.... there is a lot to doggy psychology and why they do certain things. I suggest doing a lot of research and reading and training.... and not hitting. If he is snarling, biting, etc. you definitely need to do some training and nip it in the bud.

I hope JMM will help us out here and offer some ideas... she is very experienced in dog training, etc.

 

[adorableaccentsdogbows]

A very good trainer friend of mine gave me the best advice in the world for dominence problems in small or large dogs. It's called the dominent down and it works like this.Go to your dog and lay him on his side, (dont make any reasuring sounds or talk to him during this whole process by the way. Don't even look at him) He'll probably fight you on this but be persistant,(Don't Let Him Win!) Hold him down, (gently of course) until he stoppes fighting you and lays still. Then let him up, (still without looking at him or talking to him) Start out doing this a few times a day in short intervals. After a while he should let you do it and not resist you in any way. Some dogs are more dominant than others and take a longer time to come around. I have seen this do wonders with dominent or aggressive dogs. For tougher dogs you may need to increce the time you hold them down. As your companions actions improve you can cut it down to twice then once and then not at all. If at any time the behavior starts up again go back to three times a day. It's a way of showing them where they stand without showing any aggressive yourself. I believe that showing aggression to a dog only breeds fear which in turn breeds more aggression. It's a vicious circle.

 

[jmm]

Originally posted by adorableaccentsdogbows.com@Jul 25 2005, 07:59 PM
A very good trainer friend of mine gave me the best advice in the world for dominence problems in small or large dogs. It's called the dominent down and it works like this.Go to your dog and lay him on his side, (dont make any reasuring sounds or talk to him during this whole process by the way. Don't even look at him) He'll probably fight you on this but be persistant,(Don't Let Him Win!) Hold him down, (gently of course) until he stoppes fighting you and lays still. Then let him up, (still without looking at him or talking to him) Start out doing this a few times a day in short intervals. After a while he should let you do it and not resist you in any way. Some dogs are more dominant than others and take a longer time to come around. I have seen this do wonders with dominent or aggressive dogs. For tougher dogs you may need to increce the time you hold them down. As your companions actions improve you can cut it down to twice then once and then not at all. If at any time the behavior starts up again go back to three times a day. It's a way of showing them where they stand without showing any aggressive yourself. I believe that showing aggression to a dog only breeds fear which in turn breeds more aggression. It's a vicious circle.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84427

[/QUOTE]


I would NEVER recommend physically forcing a dog down to establish your position in the pack.
- It doesn't work. An alpha never uses physical force to take their position. Only lower ranked pack members use force to try to fight for status.
- You're asking for trouble. Forcing a dog down is a threat to the dog...a deadly threat to a dog. Speaking from experience of restraining dogs in a veterinary practice, this is not something to do on your own if you don't want to be bitten.
Hitting a dog does absolutely nothing other than make them hand shy. Punishment has to be done very precisely to work. It must be done at the exact time of the behavior you dislike. It must be strong enough to get a reaction. It must be followed by an opportunity to do the correct behavior and be rewarded for it. If you can't do that, then you shouldn't punish the dog.


Now back onto the subject of dogs growling at you:
Usually, this is an issue you can think of as insecurity. The dog is not sure of things and has learned to address them himself rather than look to you for guidance. He is the leader of the pack. It works. He growls, you back off. He growls, he doesn't lose his place on your lap/the couch/etc.

I have a few general recommendations I'll post, but I highly, highly, HIGHLY recommend you seek a veterinary behaviorist or a trainer experience in using positive, motivational methods based on learning theory for treating behavior problems.
1. Leading the Dance/NILIF/Boot Camp Program. Basically the dog has to do something beore any attention, food, petting, etc. Susan Garret's book Ruff Love is good. This link is also wonderful. http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/dance.html
2. Get into obedience class. Find one that is based on positive, motivational methods. Clicker training is great fun. Take a basic family dog class and 2-3 more sessions (either more advanced obedience or even just a tricks class). This is a great bonding experience. This is a wonderful relationship-building experience.
3. Take up all toys. You start and end all games with good toys. I'd leave down a couple of boring nylabones/sterile bones and kong-type toys to chew on.
4. All food comes from you. Hand feed meals. Make the dog do something for each piece of food. You can also use special food toys that come from you. They're mentally entertaining - a tired dog is a good dog.
5. Set a schedule. You lead the game and the dog will catch on. Dogs thrive on a schedule and it has them looking to you rather than them deciding when to do what.
6. 2 short training sessions daily. It is fun, builds your relationship, and exercises your dog.
7. Daily long down (this is in Leading the Dance) 15+ minutes.

 

[k/c mom]

Originally posted by JMM@Jul 25 2005, 09:35 PM
I would NEVER recommend physically forcing a dog down to establish your position in the pack.
- It doesn't work. An alpha never uses physical force to take their position. Only lower ranked pack members use force to try to fight for status.
- You're asking for trouble. Forcing a dog down is a threat to the dog...a deadly threat to a dog. Speaking from experience of restraining dogs in a veterinary practice, this is not something to do on your own if you don't want to be bitten.
Hitting a dog does absolutely nothing other than make them hand shy. Punishment has to be done very precisely to work. It must be done at the exact time of the behavior you dislike. It must be strong enough to get a reaction. It must be followed by an opportunity to do the correct behavior and be rewarded for it. If you can't do that, then you shouldn't punish the dog.

Wow, ... what great info!! Even for some of us without the problem, this stuff is good to know.

Jackie... I have a question. When you say "punishment" in this context: "Punishment has to be done very precisely to work. It must be done at the exact time of the behavior you dislike. It must be strong enough to get a reaction," what sort of actions would the "punishment" consist of?

 

[jmm]

Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom@Jul 25 2005, 08:42 PM
Wow, ... what great info!! Even for some of us without the problem, this stuff is good to know.

Jackie... I have a question. When you say "punishment" in this context: "Punishment has to be done very precisely to work. It must be done at the exact time of the behavior you dislike. It must be strong enough to get a reaction," what sort of actions would the "punishment" consist of?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84454

[/QUOTE]

I was meaning generic punishment that most people think of - adding something aversive to stop a behavior.

In learning theory we have:
positive reinforcement - add something to make a behavior occur more often
negative reinforcement - take something away to make a behavior occur more often
positive punishment - add something to decrease the occurance of a behavior
negative punishment - remove something to decrease the occurance of a behavior

The 2 I like to use and can most effectively are pr - like clicker training or giving treats to rewards a behavior and np - removing something like myself when a puppy bites or ignoring the dog who isn't paying attention to me when I want their focus.

Positive punishment is what most people think of when they think of punishment - a spanking, yelling, saying no, etc. This is actually quite hard to do effectively (think of how many times you tell your dog to stop barking or hear a parent tell their toddler no) so I don't recommend it. It tends to make you and the dog frustrated and get you nowhere.

 

[k/c mom]

Originally posted by JMM+Jul 25 2005, 09:52 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Kallie/Catcher's Mom

@Jul 25 2005, 08:42 PM
Wow, ... what great info!! Even for some of us without the problem, this stuff is good to know.

Jackie... I have a question. When you say "punishment" in this context: "Punishment has to be done very precisely to work. It must be done at the exact time of the behavior you dislike. It must be strong enough to get a reaction," what sort of actions would the "punishment" consist of?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84454

I was meaning generic punishment that most people think of - adding something aversive to stop a behavior.

In learning theory we have:
positive reinforcement - add something to make a behavior occur more often
negative reinforcement - take something away to make a behavior occur more often
positive punishment - add something to decrease the occurance of a behavior
negative punishment - remove something to decrease the occurance of a behavior

The 2 I like to use and can most effectively are pr - like clicker training or giving treats to rewards a behavior and np - removing something like myself when a puppy bites or ignoring the dog who isn't paying attention to me when I want their focus.

Positive punishment is what most people think of when they think of punishment - a spanking, yelling, saying no, etc. This is actually quite hard to do effectively (think of how many times you tell your dog to stop barking or hear a parent tell their toddler no) so I don't recommend it. It tends to make you and the dog frustrated and get you nowhere.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84462
[/B][/QUOTE]

Thanks for clarifying... I couldn't think of what that meant but now that you explain, it makes total sense.... Kallie has a shrill bark when we play ball and I'm trying to just get up and stop the game when she starts that. I hope she'll associate the two actions... her barking with my getting off the floor....

 

[adorableaccentsdogbows]

A very good trainer friend of mine gave me the best advice in the world for dominence problems in small or large dogs. It's called the dominent down and it works like this.Go to your dog and lay him on his side, (dont make any reasuring sounds or talk to him during this whole process by the way. Don't even look at him) He'll probably fight you on this but be persistant,(Don't Let Him Win!) Hold him down, (gently of course) until he stoppes fighting you and lays still. Then let him up, (still without looking at him or talking to him) Start out doing this a few times a day in short intervals. After a while he should let you do it and not resist you in any way. Some dogs are more dominant than others and take a longer time to come around. I have seen this do wonders with dominent or aggressive dogs. For tougher dogs you may need to increce the time you hold them down. As your companions actions improve you can cut it down to twice then once and then not at all. If at any time the behavior starts up again go back to three times a day. It's a way of showing them where they stand without showing any aggressive yourself. I believe that showing aggression to a dog only breeds fear which in turn breeds more aggression. It's a vicious circle.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84427
[/quote




I would NEVER recommend physically forcing a dog down to establish your position in the pack.
- It doesn't work. An alpha never uses physical force to take their position. Only lower ranked pack members use force to try to fight for status.
- You're asking for trouble. Forcing a dog down is a threat to the dog...a deadly threat to a dog. Speaking from experience of restraining dogs in a veterinary practice, this is not something to do on your own if you don't want to be bitten.
Hitting a dog does absolutely nothing other than make them hand shy. Punishment has to be done very precisely to work. It must be done at the exact time of the behavior you dislike. It must be strong enough to get a reaction. It must be followed by an opportunity to do the correct behavior and be rewarded for it. If you can't do that, then you shouldn't punish the dog.


Now back onto the subject of dogs growling at you:
Usually, this is an issue you can think of as insecurity. The dog is not sure of things and has learned to address them himself rather than look to you for guidance. He is the leader of the pack. It works. He growls, you back off. He growls, he doesn't lose his place on your lap/the couch/etc.

I have a few general recommendations I'll post, but I highly, highly, HIGHLY recommend you seek a veterinary behaviorist or a trainer experience in using positive, motivational methods based on learning theory for treating behavior problems.
1. Leading the Dance/NILIF/Boot Camp Program. Basically the dog has to do something beore any attention, food, petting, etc. Susan Garret's book Ruff Love is good. This link is also wonderful. http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/dance.html
2. Get into obedience class. Find one that is based on positive, motivational methods. Clicker training is great fun. Take a basic family dog class and 2-3 more sessions (either more advanced obedience or even just a tricks class). This is a great bonding experience. This is a wonderful relationship-building experience.
3. Take up all toys. You start and end all games with good toys. I'd leave down a couple of boring nylabones/sterile bones and kong-type toys to chew on.
4. All food comes from you. Hand feed meals. Make the dog do something for each piece of food. You can also use special food toys that come from you. They're mentally entertaining - a tired dog is a good dog.
5. Set a schedule. You lead the game and the dog will catch on. Dogs thrive on a schedule and it has them looking to you rather than them deciding when to do what.
6. 2 short training sessions daily. It is fun, builds your relationship, and exercises your dog.
7. Daily long down (this is in Leading the Dance) 15+ minutes.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84452

"An alpha never uses physical force to take their position. Only lower ranked pack members use force to try to fight for status."

Dogs that try to be domineering are lower pack members. That's why they're being aggressive and trying to attack. Her dog believes her parents are in the alpha position. She's the next in line and he wants her position.
You can't tell me that if a lower ranked animal tried to to fight an alpha for status that the alpha wouldn't use force to retain his position in the pack.
And as far as this training tecnique goes. It does work and iv'e seen it with my own eyes. You make it sound like a violent act and that's the farthest thing from the truth. There have been many times that i've agreed with your opinions but this is definately NOT one of them.

 

[jmm]

"Dogs that try to be domineering are lower pack members. That's why they're being aggressive and trying to attack. Her dog believes her parents are in the alpha position. She's the next in line and he wants her position.
You can't tell me that if a lower ranked animal tried to to fight an alpha for status that the alpha wouldn't use force to retain his position in the pack.
And as far as this training tecnique goes. It does work and iv'e seen it with my own eyes. You make it sound like a violent act and that's the farthest thing from the truth. There have been many times that i've agreed with your opinions but this is definately NOT one of them."
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84467
[/QUOTE]

The alpha does not regularly use force to maintain his position. If another pack member starts a fight, they'll defend, but they don't start with physical force. Other dogs roll over and submit to them.
I've seen it done too. And I've also seen people bitten in the face doing it. I'd never recommend it.

 

[adorableaccentsdogbows]

"Dogs that try to be domineering are lower pack members. That's why they're being aggressive and trying to attack. Her dog believes her parents are in the alpha position. She's the next in line and he wants her position.
You can't tell me that if a lower ranked animal tried to to fight an alpha for status that the alpha wouldn't use force to retain his position in the pack.
And as far as this training tecnique goes. It does work and iv'e seen it with my own eyes. You make it sound like a violent act and that's the farthest thing from the truth. There have been many times that i've agreed with your opinions but this is definately NOT one of them."
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84467

The alpha does not regularly use force to maintain his position. If another pack member starts a fight, they'll defend, but they don't start with physical force. Other dogs roll over and submit to them.
I've seen it done too. And I've also seen people bitten in the face doing it. I'd never recommend it.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84469
[/QUOTE]

Thats what I'm saying. This dog isn't the alpha that's why he's trying to assert himself. As far as getting bitten in the face they aparently weren't doing it correctly because your face shouldn't be anywhere near the dogs face. And the reason for not looking at the dog is because you don't want to provoke aggression. This isn't a punishment It's behavior modification. It should never be done with anger, (nor should anything else). We're also talking about a Maltese not a Pit Bull. This was something that she could do herself but I do agree with you about going to a good trainer.