Maltese Dogs Forum : Spoiled Maltese Forums banner
21 - 32 of 32 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
I think jackie's advice is great. aside from being the "alpha dog" part. I learned that kenji was very VERY aggressive. He was neutered after being a year old, and being the male of him and I. We live in an apartment and he hadn't been socialized very much so he has the need to protect me from mostly everyone he doesn't familiarize himself with or feel "safe" around. I read a lot of books about punishment... I don't hit my dog. I use the old traiditional way of other alpha dogs in a pack. The alpha dog does not "hit" like a human. Instead, they pounce on them and put them on their back. For you, just pick up your dog as soon as you see something he is doing as disobedience, and lay him on his back putting very little pressure (like friendly patting but constant pressure) with one hand on his neck and chest... the other hand is creadling his neck and back during the flip. The alpha dog in every pack will "pin" the other dog down to teach him who's boss. they bite the neck and put them on their belly. Instead... gently pick up your pooch immediately after the deed,put him on his back gently and say "no". your hands should be placed GENTLY on their chest and neck (your hand an "L" figure with thumb outstanding) to put soft pressure on their chest when laid on their back. The trick is to pick them up and flip them on their back GENTLY. Your other hand is cradling their head and neck so you don't bump their head... you need to do this on a soft surface anyway. I'm used to it so i flip him over wherever he is bad. You just gotta get the feel of flipping him over. Practice on the bed if he ever starts biting. The "turtle" position is submissive and they will usually stop barking or assume your position as alpha in command.
Love lei
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
21,119 Posts
Originally posted by babybinks22@Jul 26 2005, 12:24 AM
I think jackie's advice is great.  aside from being the "alpha dog" part.  I learned that kenji was very VERY aggressive.  He was neutered after being a year old, and being the male of him and I.  We live in an apartment and he hadn't been socialized very much so he has the need to protect me from mostly everyone he doesn't familiarize himself with or feel "safe" around.  I read a lot of books about punishment... I don't hit my dog.  I use the old traiditional way of other alpha dogs in a pack.  The alpha dog does not "hit" like a human.  Instead, they pounce on them and put them on their back.  For you, just pick up your dog as soon as you see something he is doing as disobedience, and lay him on his back putting very little pressure (like friendly patting but constant pressure) with one hand on his neck and chest... the other hand is creadling his neck and back during the flip.  The alpha dog in every pack will "pin" the other dog down to teach him who's boss.  they bite the neck and put them on their belly. Instead... gently pick up your pooch immediately after the deed,put him on his back gently and say "no".  your hands should be placed GENTLY on their chest and neck (your hand an "L" figure with thumb outstanding) to put soft pressure on their chest when laid on their back. The trick is to pick them up and flip them on their back GENTLY.  Your other hand is cradling their head and neck so you don't bump their head... you need to do this on a soft surface anyway.  I'm used to it so i flip him over wherever he is bad.  You just gotta get the feel of flipping him over.  Practice on the bed if he ever starts biting.  The "turtle" position is submissive and they will usually stop barking or assume your position as alpha in command.
Love lei
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84503
[/QUOTE]

What you are describing is the "alpha roll" and it indeed is an "old traditional" method but it is now out of favor and has been proven to not be good to do. I didn't know any better with my first Malt in 1990 and I used it and had terrible results. Here are some up-to-date articles about this practice:

http://dogs.about.com/cs/basictraining/a/alpha_roll.htm

The Alpha Roll, once hailed as the premier way to prove to your dog who's "Alpha" (Boss) in the family, has been replaced by a gentler, more successful way of training. Now the Alpha Roll, besides being obsolete, has proven to be detrimental to the health and mental well-being of your dog, as well as downright dangerous to the "Roller".

What is an Alpha Roll?

An Alpha Roll is the act of flipping your dog onto his back, and holding his throat. Supposedly this will teach him that YOU are Alpha, and he will respect you for this.
Wrong.

Why The Apha Roll Is Dangerous

Dog Park member Violetcows said it best:

"The only reason that a dog will FORCEFULLY flip another dog over on its back is to kill the animal. By forcing an animal to submit in that way you are literally putting the fear of death into them, they think you are trying to kill them. It is not surprising that a lot of people get bit trying to do the alpha roll - the dog believes that the human is trying to kill them so they try and defend themselves. Doing this behavior to an already dominant animal can increase the likelihood of aggression. Doing this to an already submissive animal will increase the fear in that animal - leading to submissive urination and possible fear biting. Hands should never, ever be used to hurt an animal - an alpha roll does just that and its efficacy at asserting dominance is next to zero."


http://doityourself.com/pets/whosboss.htm

tp://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.p...S=1&SourceID=60

http://bullmastiffinfo.tripod.com/alpha.htm
 

· Registered
Joined
·
7,310 Posts
Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom+Jul 26 2005, 06:19 AM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-babybinks22
@Jul 26 2005, 12:24 AM
I think jackie's advice is great.  aside from being the "alpha dog" part.  I learned that kenji was very VERY aggressive.  He was neutered after being a year old, and being the male of him and I.  We live in an apartment and he hadn't been socialized very much so he has the need to protect me from mostly everyone he doesn't familiarize himself with or feel "safe" around.  I read a lot of books about punishment... I don't hit my dog.  I use the old traiditional way of other alpha dogs in a pack.  The alpha dog does not "hit" like a human.  Instead, they pounce on them and put them on their back.  For you, just pick up your dog as soon as you see something he is doing as disobedience, and lay him on his back putting very little pressure (like friendly patting but constant pressure) with one hand on his neck and chest... the other hand is creadling his neck and back during the flip.  The alpha dog in every pack will "pin" the other dog down to teach him who's boss.  they bite the neck and put them on their belly. Instead... gently pick up your pooch immediately after the deed,put him on his back gently and say "no".  your hands should be placed GENTLY on their chest and neck (your hand an "L" figure with thumb outstanding) to put soft pressure on their chest when laid on their back. The trick is to pick them up and flip them on their back GENTLY.  Your other hand is cradling their head and neck so you don't bump their head... you need to do this on a soft surface anyway.  I'm used to it so i flip him over wherever he is bad.  You just gotta get the feel of flipping him over.  Practice on the bed if he ever starts biting.  The "turtle" position is submissive and they will usually stop barking or assume your position as alpha in command.
Love lei
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84503
What you are describing is the "alpha roll" and it indeed is an "old traditional" method but it is now out of favor and has been proven to not be good to do. I didn't know any better with my first Malt in 1990 and I used it and had terrible results. Here are some up-to-date articles about this practice:

http://dogs.about.com/cs/basictraining/a/alpha_roll.htm

The Alpha Roll, once hailed as the premier way to prove to your dog who's "Alpha" (Boss) in the family, has been replaced by a gentler, more successful way of training. Now the Alpha Roll, besides being obsolete, has proven to be detrimental to the health and mental well-being of your dog, as well as downright dangerous to the "Roller".

What is an Alpha Roll?

An Alpha Roll is the act of flipping your dog onto his back, and holding his throat. Supposedly this will teach him that YOU are Alpha, and he will respect you for this.
Wrong.

Why The Apha Roll Is Dangerous

Dog Park member Violetcows said it best:

"The only reason that a dog will FORCEFULLY flip another dog over on its back is to kill the animal. By forcing an animal to submit in that way you are literally putting the fear of death into them, they think you are trying to kill them. It is not surprising that a lot of people get bit trying to do the alpha roll - the dog believes that the human is trying to kill them so they try and defend themselves. Doing this behavior to an already dominant animal can increase the likelihood of aggression. Doing this to an already submissive animal will increase the fear in that animal - leading to submissive urination and possible fear biting. Hands should never, ever be used to hurt an animal - an alpha roll does just that and its efficacy at asserting dominance is next to zero."


http://doityourself.com/pets/whosboss.htm

tp://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.p...S=1&SourceID=60

http://bullmastiffinfo.tripod.com/alpha.htm
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84533
[/B][/QUOTE]
My trainer said the same thing. When Lexi started growling at me back in Jan I did this. When I told my trainer he said that was the wrong thing to do. He had me do positive reinforcement and the NILIF program.
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
4,872 Posts
I found out the hard way! When Frosty was little I took him to a puppy class where they taught sit, down, etc. He was reluctant to lie down and grumbled (not really a growl, more like cussing under his breath
). The "trainer" took over and flipped him on his back. When she let him up he turned his back on her and never looked at her again. She came up to me while I was holding him after class to pet him and he jerked himself around putting his back to her. She said "Oops, we have a problem, he's too smart for his own good". I had to quit the class because every time I brought him into the building he would run to the door wanting out. I had lost any hope of using that trainer anyway! I have never been able to put him on his side or back since for any reason. He fights like someone is going to kill him. He has become progressively more aggressive as he's gotten older. All these years I've been wishing I could throw her on her back!
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
21,119 Posts
Originally posted by Frosty's Mom@Jul 26 2005, 03:54 PM
I found out the hard way!  When Frosty was little I took him to a puppy class where they taught sit, down, etc.  He was reluctant to lie down and grumbled (not really a growl, more like cussing under his breath 
).  The "trainer" took over and flipped him on his back. When she let him up he turned his back on her and never looked at her again. She came up to me while I was holding him after class to pet him and he jerked himself around putting his back to her.  She said "Oops, we have a problem, he's too smart for his own good". I had to quit the class because every time I brought him into the building he would run to the door wanting out.  I had lost any hope of using that trainer anyway! I have never been able to put him on his side or back since for any reason. He fights like someone is going to kill him. He has become progressively more  aggressive as he's gotten older.  All these years I've been wishing I could throw her on her back! 

<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84711
[/QUOTE]

I know what you mean.... My first Maltese, Rosebud, was a feisty one and I had a trainer who came to the house. She had me do the alpha roll, too. Rosebud would fight and try to bite even while I was doing it. I hated doing it... it just didn't seem right; but I didn't know any better then and there was no Internet and SM in 1990.

Rosebud, throughout her life, would snap at me and was just tempermental like that. I think that the early bad training was the cause. I would never do that nor any of the other things that were considered acceptable back then.

HOWEVER, something interesting.... Catcher cannot stand to have his belly show. So he doesn't ever lie on his back. If I pick him up and he is facing forward, he will flip around and hug my neck like he is scared to death. If he wants me to rub his belly, he will only partially turn over at the chest area and leave the rest in a side position. I know he considers me his alpha because I can take even a favorite toy or Kleenex, etc. right out of his mouth without a problem, etc. He has a wonderful, calm disposition and is not at all feisty with me and is extremely obedient... just a great Malt... The only little quirk is that he doesn't like to expose his belly. He has been like that since day one.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,286 Posts
Originally posted by babybinks22@Jul 25 2005, 09:24 PM
I think jackie's advice is great.  aside from being the "alpha dog" part.  I learned that kenji was very VERY aggressive.  He was neutered after being a year old, and being the male of him and I.  We live in an apartment and he hadn't been socialized very much so he has the need to protect me from mostly everyone he doesn't familiarize himself with or feel "safe" around.  I read a lot of books about punishment... I don't hit my dog.  I use the old traiditional way of other alpha dogs in a pack.  The alpha dog does not "hit" like a human.  Instead, they pounce on them and put them on their back.  For you, just pick up your dog as soon as you see something he is doing as disobedience, and lay him on his back putting very little pressure (like friendly patting but constant pressure) with one hand on his neck and chest... the other hand is creadling his neck and back during the flip.  The alpha dog in every pack will "pin" the other dog down to teach him who's boss.  they bite the neck and put them on their belly. Instead... gently pick up your pooch immediately after the deed,put him on his back gently and say "no".  your hands should be placed GENTLY on their chest and neck (your hand an "L" figure with thumb outstanding) to put soft pressure on their chest when laid on their back. The trick is to pick them up and flip them on their back GENTLY.  Your other hand is cradling their head and neck so you don't bump their head... you need to do this on a soft surface anyway.  I'm used to it so i flip him over wherever he is bad.  You just gotta get the feel of flipping him over.  Practice on the bed if he ever starts biting.  The "turtle" position is submissive and they will usually stop barking or assume your position as alpha in command.
Love lei
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84503
[/QUOTE]

I am by far not an expert, but I do have a dog with some aggressive issues. I would never dream of trying the alpha roll (even in the gentle manner). What has worked for us was doing the nothing in life is free approach and just (unfortunately) treating him more as a dog. For instance, removing him from our bed helped tremendously. At a little over 2 yrs old, Miko is behaving a lot better than half a year ago - however, I am not kidding myself. My dog can and would bite if he is not happy and rolling him on his back may make him quite unhappy.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
356 Posts
Jack does that too! All you have to do is say "Jack, let me take your collar off" and he starts growling, baring his teeth. But he has never bitten. Actually, it seems to me that when he growls, he is actually talking, because it has different pitches. He also throws a few moans in there for good measure. If he is growling and you bend down and say "give me kisses", he licks your face. Go figure.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
I guess Kenji is kinda weird because he loves sleeping on his back and loves his tummy rubbed. He also likes getting chest rubs too! I'm just glad I stopped doing the alpha roll before turning him against me. I'm also glad he's still loves napping sprawled out on his back. When he wants a rub he'll run up to you and face his but towards you and flop onto his back. He is too silly.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
129 Posts
Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom@Jul 26 2005, 04:55 PM
HOWEVER, something interesting.... Catcher cannot stand to have his belly show. If I pick him up and he is facing forward, he will flip around and hug my neck like he is scared to death. If he wants me to rub his belly, he will only partially turn over at the chest area and leave the rest in a side position. I know he considers me his alpha because I can take even a favorite toy or Kleenex, etc. right out of his mouth without a problem, etc. He has a wonderful, calm disposition and is not at all feisty with me and is extremely obedient... just a great Malt... The only little quirk is that he doesn't like to expose his belly. He has been like that since day one. 

<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84726
[/QUOTE]

Angus hates to have his belly touched.
He'll sleep on his back with his belly in the air, but no way will he ever let you rub his tummy! I have never seen a dog who didn't love tummy rubs!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Originally posted by Lexi's Mom+Jul 26 2005, 08:20 AM-->
Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom[email protected] 26 2005, 06:19 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-babybinks22
@Jul 26 2005, 12:24 AM
I think jackie's advice is great.  aside from being the "alpha dog" part.  I learned that kenji was very VERY aggressive.  He was neutered after being a year old, and being the male of him and I.  We live in an apartment and he hadn't been socialized very much so he has the need to protect me from mostly everyone he doesn't familiarize himself with or feel "safe" around.  I read a lot of books about punishment... I don't hit my dog.  I use the old traiditional way of other alpha dogs in a pack.  The alpha dog does not "hit" like a human.  Instead, they pounce on them and put them on their back.  For you, just pick up your dog as soon as you see something he is doing as disobedience, and lay him on his back putting very little pressure (like friendly patting but constant pressure) with one hand on his neck and chest... the other hand is creadling his neck and back during the flip.  The alpha dog in every pack will "pin" the other dog down to teach him who's boss.  they bite the neck and put them on their belly. Instead... gently pick up your pooch immediately after the deed,put him on his back gently and say "no".  your hands should be placed GENTLY on their chest and neck (your hand an "L" figure with thumb outstanding) to put soft pressure on their chest when laid on their back. The trick is to pick them up and flip them on their back GENTLY.  Your other hand is cradling their head and neck so you don't bump their head... you need to do this on a soft surface anyway.  I'm used to it so i flip him over wherever he is bad.  You just gotta get the feel of flipping him over.  Practice on the bed if he ever starts biting.  The "turtle" position is submissive and they will usually stop barking or assume your position as alpha in command.
Love lei
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84503


What you are describing is the "alpha roll" and it indeed is an "old traditional" method but it is now out of favor and has been proven to not be good to do. I didn't know any better with my first Malt in 1990 and I used it and had terrible results. Here are some up-to-date articles about this practice:

http://dogs.about.com/cs/basictraining/a/alpha_roll.htm

The Alpha Roll, once hailed as the premier way to prove to your dog who's "Alpha" (Boss) in the family, has been replaced by a gentler, more successful way of training. Now the Alpha Roll, besides being obsolete, has proven to be detrimental to the health and mental well-being of your dog, as well as downright dangerous to the "Roller".

What is an Alpha Roll?

An Alpha Roll is the act of flipping your dog onto his back, and holding his throat. Supposedly this will teach him that YOU are Alpha, and he will respect you for this.
Wrong.

Why The Apha Roll Is Dangerous

Dog Park member Violetcows said it best:

"The only reason that a dog will FORCEFULLY flip another dog over on its back is to kill the animal. By forcing an animal to submit in that way you are literally putting the fear of death into them, they think you are trying to kill them. It is not surprising that a lot of people get bit trying to do the alpha roll - the dog believes that the human is trying to kill them so they try and defend themselves. Doing this behavior to an already dominant animal can increase the likelihood of aggression. Doing this to an already submissive animal will increase the fear in that animal - leading to submissive urination and possible fear biting. Hands should never, ever be used to hurt an animal - an alpha roll does just that and its efficacy at asserting dominance is next to zero."


http://doityourself.com/pets/whosboss.htm

tp://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.p...S=1&SourceID=60

http://bullmastiffinfo.tripod.com/alpha.htm
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84533

[/QUOTE]
My trainer said the same thing. When Lexi started growling at me back in Jan I did this. When I told my trainer he said that was the wrong thing to do. He had me do positive reinforcement and the NILIF program.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84552
[/B][/QUOTE]

Lexi.. your pic is too cute!!!!

How can I see more pics of you? I'm looking to get a hair cut but mama is still debating... long??? or short. she's driving me crazy with the "in-between" cut! I'm getting used to the ponytail in the middle of my forehead though.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
7,310 Posts
Originally posted by babybinks22+Aug 1 2005, 04:32 AM-->
Originally posted by Lexi's [email protected] 26 2005, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's [email protected] 26 2005, 06:19 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-babybinks22
@Jul 26 2005, 12:24 AM
I think jackie's advice is great.  aside from being the "alpha dog" part.  I learned that kenji was very VERY aggressive.  He was neutered after being a year old, and being the male of him and I.  We live in an apartment and he hadn't been socialized very much so he has the need to protect me from mostly everyone he doesn't familiarize himself with or feel "safe" around.  I read a lot of books about punishment... I don't hit my dog.  I use the old traiditional way of other alpha dogs in a pack.  The alpha dog does not "hit" like a human.  Instead, they pounce on them and put them on their back.  For you, just pick up your dog as soon as you see something he is doing as disobedience, and lay him on his back putting very little pressure (like friendly patting but constant pressure) with one hand on his neck and chest... the other hand is creadling his neck and back during the flip.  The alpha dog in every pack will "pin" the other dog down to teach him who's boss.  they bite the neck and put them on their belly. Instead... gently pick up your pooch immediately after the deed,put him on his back gently and say "no".  your hands should be placed GENTLY on their chest and neck (your hand an "L" figure with thumb outstanding) to put soft pressure on their chest when laid on their back. The trick is to pick them up and flip them on their back GENTLY.  Your other hand is cradling their head and neck so you don't bump their head... you need to do this on a soft surface anyway.  I'm used to it so i flip him over wherever he is bad.  You just gotta get the feel of flipping him over.  Practice on the bed if he ever starts biting.  The "turtle" position is submissive and they will usually stop barking or assume your position as alpha in command.
Love lei
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84503


What you are describing is the "alpha roll" and it indeed is an "old traditional" method but it is now out of favor and has been proven to not be good to do. I didn't know any better with my first Malt in 1990 and I used it and had terrible results. Here are some up-to-date articles about this practice:

http://dogs.about.com/cs/basictraining/a/alpha_roll.htm

The Alpha Roll, once hailed as the premier way to prove to your dog who's "Alpha" (Boss) in the family, has been replaced by a gentler, more successful way of training. Now the Alpha Roll, besides being obsolete, has proven to be detrimental to the health and mental well-being of your dog, as well as downright dangerous to the "Roller".

What is an Alpha Roll?

An Alpha Roll is the act of flipping your dog onto his back, and holding his throat. Supposedly this will teach him that YOU are Alpha, and he will respect you for this.
Wrong.

Why The Apha Roll Is Dangerous

Dog Park member Violetcows said it best:

"The only reason that a dog will FORCEFULLY flip another dog over on its back is to kill the animal. By forcing an animal to submit in that way you are literally putting the fear of death into them, they think you are trying to kill them. It is not surprising that a lot of people get bit trying to do the alpha roll - the dog believes that the human is trying to kill them so they try and defend themselves. Doing this behavior to an already dominant animal can increase the likelihood of aggression. Doing this to an already submissive animal will increase the fear in that animal - leading to submissive urination and possible fear biting. Hands should never, ever be used to hurt an animal - an alpha roll does just that and its efficacy at asserting dominance is next to zero."


http://doityourself.com/pets/whosboss.htm

tp://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.p...S=1&SourceID=60

http://bullmastiffinfo.tripod.com/alpha.htm
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84533

My trainer said the same thing. When Lexi started growling at me back in Jan I did this. When I told my trainer he said that was the wrong thing to do. He had me do positive reinforcement and the NILIF program.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=84552
Lexi.. your pic is too cute!!!!

How can I see more pics of you? I'm looking to get a hair cut but mama is still debating... long??? or short. she's driving me crazy with the "in-between" cut! I'm getting used to the ponytail in the middle of my forehead though.

<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=86334
[/B][/QUOTE]

You should be able to get onto my site today. I went over my bandwidth last month so all of my pics showed up with the image "over 4GB" or something. But it is working now. Click on the link in my sig.
 
21 - 32 of 32 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top