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Discussion Starter #1
We've had AnnaBelle since a pup - she is 12yrs now and still acts like a pup, runs and does 360s as she is excited every morning for the new day to begin, grumbles when the water dish is low or just when she wants more attention and is just a joy to have.

2 years ago after watching an "Oprah" special about abused dogs/puppy mills, etc. my wife decided AnnaBelle needed a buddy. 2 days later we adopted Sophia from a Maltese rescue org. She was 3 yrs old and while she was kept groomed and generally well cared for she had never stepped on grass or walked or treated like a pet, no name just a tattoo in the ear. She lived in a concrete floored cage with one part indoors and the other open to the outside and made puppies (evidently not real good ones as they were going to put her down at 3yrs).

Well that's the background now for the present. Sophia has never enjoyed walking on grass and now that we have just moved to FL it is worse as the grass is not the fine bladed grass she was getting used to in KS.

We have a dog door and while she knows how to go through it she won't use it on her own to go out when she needs to go. I take her out 4-5 times a day and generally she'll just sit down while AnnaBelle runs out, explores and does her business. After encouraging her to go, carrying her out into the grass and waiting (and waiting) Sophia may urinate 2-3 times a day and she'll generally only poop once.

She just hates going outside and would rather just sleep inside all day. She is the ultimate lap dog as all she wants is to be held, petted or to lay next to one of us. She seems to have no desire to play with AnnaBelle, although even after 2 years of failed attempts AnnaBelle still tries to initiate play. Annabelle will give Sophia "kisses" several times a day only to be greeted with snarls.

I am getting quite frustrated with her not wanting to go outside or when I do take her out it takes so long for her to go.

Thanks for listening to my rambling and any help would be appreciated.
 

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Bless you heart for doing such a wonderful thing. xoxox
These little babies who have been so abused by being used as breeding machines at the expense of their own health and happiness are truly special babies indeed. She is probably just so happy to not be living a life on the bars anymore that she savors human contact/love. These babies have typically no proper socialization skills (and that's why she doesn't know what play is with your AnnaBelle) and she is probably still uncomfortable outside (as she had only known life inside a cage).

I would try to not be frustrated with her and just remember how horrible her life was until she was freed from the mill and given a chance to just be a dog and part of a family. Give her good associations with potty outside (treat and praise her)...she may just be either distracted (so much to see/new noises, etc compared to her other life) or shy about going in front of you. Ar you taking her out with AnnaBelle? I'm guessing she is learning quite a bit just from watching how AnnaBelle deals with the things around her/relates to people/etc

With these precious dogs, it's really baby steps. And celebrating as you see the lightbulb in their eyes start to shine...afterall, there was no real life before you. God bless her and God bless you guys for taking on the hardest of the rescues (the tattoo in the ear tells the story - those come from the hard core mills :() To me, it shows the incredible capacity for unconditional love that dogs have...I couldn't imagine being so horribly abused/mistreated and still being open to love...dogs are truly truly amazing little beings...

This is the life she knew before you : Puppymills - Information about puppy mills and how to shut them down.

Brochure on rehabilitating your rescued dog: Powered by Google Docs
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the reply. I do take both out at the same time and she isn't distracted by the elements outside. She has very little interest in exploring or snifing around. Infact on our walks AnnaBelle's nose is on the ground more than not and Sophia trails behind without sniffing anything. In the car Annabelle is excited and looks out every window she can while Sophia just lays down.
Guess I just need to "vent" a little today. I do keep reminding myself of her past and keep hoping that she'll start acting "happy" and more like a "dog" soon. She does have her moments albeit short and far between.

I've downloaded and printed the link about rehabilitating. Thanks again !
 

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How about trying a different surface for her?
Mulching an area
Artificial grass potty
Grass potty using more desirable textured sod
Area with pea gravel
Pee pad
Kitty litter

It may reduce her stress of worrying to go out if you just carry her right out in the first place instead of drawing the process out.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
We are planning more hard surface paths and a mulch area (has to go through the HOA :( which isn't quick). And I have carried her out and set her down in the general "potty" area. A lot of the time she just sits down or runs back to the door unless she is about to burst and then she'll go and then run to the door. Hopefully with plenty of encouragement and positive reinforcement (and a lot patients) she'll get better.
 

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I would either take her for an actual walk to get her to potty (bring along your other dog) or designate an area for a potty pad for now (since you don't sound like you could put in a doggy door). Our Pip was a breeder dog and has a lot of weird issues too. One is that she doesn't like us to see her potty - used to hold it for an incredibly long amount of time (but picked up using a potty pad really fast - just wouldn't use it when she thought we could see her). We have a doggy door so I slowly moved the pad to where it was outside and then slowly moved it toward where I wanted her to do her stuff. When we walk her with the other dogs, she seems to forget herself and potty on the walks. When I take the puppies to the potty area and tell them Go Potty, she will often come along and watch but not do it (she sneaks off and does it in a different part of the garden while we are distracted with them). And she potties in weird spots outside (sometimes on my husband's work out mat, sometimes right on the cement, but we never correct her just clean it and praise her when we catch her going potty in the right area). It's really odd, but we can see so many improvements in other aspects (little bitty bits here and there...) and sometimes she loses herself completely and starts tossing a toy around for a bit which is just mesmerizing to us...otherwise, like yours, she is a total velcro doggy...can't get enough love and cuddles - like a dry sponge that will never fill. Lately, she's taken to slowly crawling down off the back of the couch and hanging halfway over our shoulders with her face near ours (that's a big step forward for her) like a hairy parrot or something LOL. She's just trying to get close and doesn't really know how to act like a 'normal' dog. We know why though because of her background and just give her lots of love and cuddles and only give her positive reinforcements and hopefully things will continue to get better over time. Hang in there and try not to compare her to your AnnaBelle because one was raised right and given a wonderful start to life and the other was treated like a machine and is learning to be a dog (I had to teach Pip how to chew on a chewy toy by doing it myself first :p lol...she just didn't get it til she saw me put it in my mouth and pretend to chew...after that, she can't get enough of them)...bless you for being her safe place...

BTW, did you see this other link in that one link I gave you - lots of tips on this page : Best Friends Animal Society - Dog Library
 

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Discussion Starter #8
jmm - she really doesn’t care for a leash and can't wait for a walk to be over. Always stays to my right and as far back as she can without making the leash taunt. Except whens she sees the house then she takes the lead :).

Eileen, we do have a dog door (actually 2, 1 out to the screen enclosure and another from the enclosure to our fenced yard. She has used both, mainly just for coming back in. We have used pee pads when leaving for a while and she has used them, but also the area rugs so I'd rather not encourage the pad. Thinking about a Potty Patch type thing for the enclosure because the only thing she seems to dislike more than grass is wet grass or rain, which it does a lot here. I also plan on keeping a certain area of the grass cut lower since she seems to be worst the longer the grass is.


jmm - she really doesn’t care for a leash and can't wait for a walk to be over. Always stays to my right and as far back as she can without making the leash taunt. Except whens she sees the house then she takes the lead :).

Eileen, we do have a dog door (actually 2, 1 out to the screen enclosure and another from the enclosure to our fenced yard. She has used both, mainly just for coming back in. We have used pee pads when leaving for a while and she has used them, but also the area rugs so I'd rather not encourage the pad. Thinking about a Potty Patch type thing for the enclosure because the only thing she seems to dislike more than grass is wet grass or rain, which it does a lot here. I also plan on keeping a certain area of the grass cut lower since she seems to be worst the longer the grass is.

And like your Pip she has her rare moments, sometimes when I start trying to play with her, she'll run through the house at TOP speed jumping up and down from chairs. Last night in fact was the 1st time since we've had her (over 2 yrs) she "attacked" a toy and shook it, she has laid down and chewed on one occasionally but the attacking and shaking was a 1st. And this morning when I was petting both as they stoop together and while AnnaBelle was giving her kisses instead of snarling she slightly raise a front leg as if to paw at AnnaBelle, never really did it but looked encouraging.

Thanks again for the words of encouragement - like our dogs I guess we need positive reinforcement too :).



 

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It takes a lot of time for these precious rescues to adjust to such a big world.

Regarding potty pads: We decided that it was easier for us to do without small area rugs, so they don't mistake them for their potty pads. When I visit friends, I ask them to take up their scatter rugs while I am there, so my dogs don't get confused.

Maybe it just might be easier on your rescue to use a potty pad with a holder, or a grass potty patch in an outside area?

I had a mill dog I bought from a pet shop as a puppy years ago. She never wanted to potty outside. We ended up training her on potty pads. Then, when she was about 8 years old, we moved to a rural mountain area temporarily, and she decided that she wanted to potty outside, and be outside all the time, lol.
 

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jmm - she really doesn’t care for a leash and can't wait for a walk to be over. Always stays to my right and as far back as she can without making the leash taunt. Except whens she sees the house then she takes the lead :).

Eileen, we do have a dog door (actually 2, 1 out to the screen enclosure and another from the enclosure to our fenced yard. She has used both, mainly just for coming back in. We have used pee pads when leaving for a while and she has used them, but also the area rugs so I'd rather not encourage the pad. Thinking about a Potty Patch type thing for the enclosure because the only thing she seems to dislike more than grass is wet grass or rain, which it does a lot here. I also plan on keeping a certain area of the grass cut lower since she seems to be worst the longer the grass is.


jmm - she really doesn’t care for a leash and can't wait for a walk to be over. Always stays to my right and as far back as she can without making the leash taunt. Except whens she sees the house then she takes the lead :).

Eileen, we do have a dog door (actually 2, 1 out to the screen enclosure and another from the enclosure to our fenced yard. She has used both, mainly just for coming back in. We have used pee pads when leaving for a while and she has used them, but also the area rugs so I'd rather not encourage the pad. Thinking about a Potty Patch type thing for the enclosure because the only thing she seems to dislike more than grass is wet grass or rain, which it does a lot here. I also plan on keeping a certain area of the grass cut lower since she seems to be worst the longer the grass is.

And like your Pip she has her rare moments, sometimes when I start trying to play with her, she'll run through the house at TOP speed jumping up and down from chairs. Last night in fact was the 1st time since we've had her (over 2 yrs) she "attacked" a toy and shook it, she has laid down and chewed on one occasionally but the attacking and shaking was a 1st. And this morning when I was petting both as they stoop together and while AnnaBelle was giving her kisses instead of snarling she slightly raise a front leg as if to paw at AnnaBelle, never really did it but looked encouraging.

Thanks again for the words of encouragement - like our dogs I guess we need positive reinforcement too :).



This brought the HUGEST smile to my face!!!!! :thumbsup: You are doing it right if she is showing little signs like this - huge improvements!!!! :thumbsup::aktion033: It's these milestones that will happen out of the blue that show you she is slowly emerging from her little cocoon - bless her sweet heart!!! You may see nothing again for awhile and then it will start to be more and more as her confidence builds.

Pip Hated walking on the leash at first - it was terrifying to her all the sounds and things she had never heard before. Pulling toward the house is her wanting back in her safe zone - she has to learn to feel safe outside too (that's why you keep up with the walking - just start small around the block or a park.) But keep up with the walking and praising her for being a good dog as she goes along and it will get better...I even hummed and sang little songs to her in the beginning to try to distract her a bit and let her see that I was relaxed lol. I would always take her on a pack walk with AnnaBelle so she can cue off her 'normal' vibes. Now Pip loves walks (although when we go near parking lots she sometimes acts like she wants to climb up under the cars which makes me think she must have been housed in a garage :() - she is learning to love seeing what's going on outside. It's pretty cool.

Oh great that you have a doggy door!!! If she has used potty pads before, I would place a potty pad outside on the area where you would like her to do her business (will have to anchor the corners with rocks or something so it doesn't blow). Take her to that spot and tell her "Go Potty"...she may or may not do it for you, but she will see where you want her to go and hopefully sneak out there and use it herself (they also have a potty motivating spray sold for housebreaking puppies...just a little squirt on the pad to cue her). After awhile you can remove the pad and see if she is still using the same spot. But I always start with the pad that they are used to going on so they can make the link as to what you are wanting them to do. It's pretty normal maltesey for them to not want to get their feet wet/not like going in the rain. Luckily we have a covered patio so when it rains I just put a potty pad under the covered part and Pip will use it. She is associated "Good Potty" with being outside so don't think the pad confused her (where it might inside a house - as the association with area/scatter rugs was mentioned). Don't use the pad for Pip anymore (except when it rains) but it was part of the transitioning training. I just think it's easier if they have a system they are used to that you sort of integrate it into the system you Want them to have until they get it and you can remove that little crutch/bridge.

I am still smiling about her raising her little paw...it WILL come... The puppies always come up and give kisses and Pip is there too but just watches. The other day she forgot herself and gave me one too (she was surrounded by the two others also kissing me). I always give her a warm THANK YOU, PIP when she does something like this to let her know it is a good thing and she seems quite pleased with herself. She is relaxing more and more but still has that haunting "I know the other shoe is going to drop" in the back of her mind I can tell....for example, this morning she about jumped 6 feet off the bed pillow when I reached for her to set her down to go to the kitchen for breakfast. It was just an instinct/instant reaction for her as she came sort of crawling back up to me right away...so sad...she wants to be normal, just can't yet. It will come. We just have to smile and rejoice in the little baby steps and know that even if we will never have a dog who is as normal as a dog who isn't having to come back from such a horror, we have at least given them peace and a sense of safety and love for the rest of their lives ;) I just hate the monsters who did this to them and hope I can be a good enough human to let her progress at her own pace and don't do too many things wrong for her along the way.

The good news for you is that you already have a normal dog in the household for her to pattern after. Unfortunately, our rescues had puppies (1 did - she is since rehomed but had I known then what I know now would have separated the puppies at a very early age from the adult rescues...sigh...20/20 hindsight) and they picked up fear patterns/cues in their formative stages so we have a few issues with the puppies too. I just continue working with them and pray they all grow out of it together. It can be quite overwhelming/dismaying at times, so I am really resonating with your posts ((((hugs)))) I have gotten some good advice right here on these forums so hope you stick around :)
 

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I will probably be getting a potty patch today for the covered patio, just a little afraid that AnnaBelle who goes out to the grass now will start using it. Plan on moving it outside on the grass once Sophie is using it routinely and than after she is going outside to use it hopefully I can remove it and she'll continue to go outside. And then making it accessible only during the rainy times.

Thanks for all the replies and advice!
 

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My Bitsy was a breeding dog,same thing she didnt; interact w/ people really well and wouldn't snarl at all the other dogs. She wouldn't poty outside but was wee pad trained so she'd pee inside oon anything that liked like a wee pad,area rugs or if a news paper blew on the floor. She didnt' like to be held or even petted much. I hand feed her and talked to her and pet her and held her,all while hand feeding her. So she would associate me w/ food and good things. I'd take her into a room by herself and play w/ her,get her to sit for treats.
It took a long time at least 4-5 months.
Then she finally came out of her shell,she' still a work in progress. She's still a little growly around the other dogs but not snapping at them now.
when we lived in florida,our dogs hated the course grass there,so we planted an area of finner bladed grass,I think it was called Bermuda grass. It's fairly hardy,we bought it in sod. It helped a lot.
 

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Barron was so easy to train (he's a Shih Tzu/ Bichon mix) Lucy is very bright, but doesn't seem to get the "go potty" idea at all - it's a little frustrating, since she clearly understands "treat", "bed", "ride", and "beach" - - - she always goes in the same area in the house . . .

I've "puppy proof" our home - carpets, outlets, plants, etc. so, hopefully she'll "get it" soon.

I'm a complete freak about cleaning - it's a little disconcerting to say the least. I’m being patient, it'll all come together one of these days -

Best of luck,

Allie
 

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Well I got the potty pad but not sure if I'm going to push it. I let her out front the last couple of mornings and she likes being able to walk on more hard surfaces (driveway and sidewalk) and the mulch much more than the grass. She ventures off into the grass/mulch to go and then bounds back.

So I plan on adding several stepping stones and more mulch in a small area in the back near the doggie door. I plan on asking for forgiveness rather than for permission from the HOA :).

Nice to know I'm not alone on this - misery loves company - lol. Thanks again!
 

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Artificial grass System is not much different from natural grass. Urine washes through the system into the Shark Drainage Blanket or the specially formulated crushed rock sub-base below. Waste can be removed using your current process, only it tends to be less messy with the artificial Grass....
 

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I had to laugh about the HOA ~ man have we lived in that world! Ugggh.:smpullhair:


Anyway, I was wondering if the Wiz Dog http://www.amazon.com/Wizdog-Indoor-Dog-Potty/dp/B000JF8T9U might work best for your little one. It's that hard surface she likes without the confusion of the puppy pad stuff. Looks like an interesting product.
 
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