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[HELP]Vaccination Questions!!!

2970 Views 19 Replies 8 Participants Last post by  dwerten, 
nyx0313
Hi Everybody, sorry this is a little bit long but I'll try to make it simple. Please read through and give me some advices!! Thanks!!!

Bobo is a year and half old now. She got her Rabies and Bordetella last year in August, and another Bordetella in June this year. Her last wellness checkup was in August 09 so I brought her to the vet today for the annual check up...

For the past few days, I've been doing research online about vaccinations. I read many articles (Includes in the articles on WDJ and 2006 AAHA Guidelines) I learned a lot about the potential threat of vaccination reactions and over-vaccination.

So before I went to the Vet, I've written down a memo for myself. I planned to talk to the vet first and not automatically re-vaccine my baby.

I was going to request a titer test for CPV & CDV.

I was going to say "No" to combination shots (DHPP) if the titer test results come out and show she needs them.

Since she took her rabies last year and many articles say it probably will last for 3 year so I won't take it this year.

I was going to take the heartworm test and Wellness blood test.

What I also learned from my research is that I don't need the following vaccines:

1. Hepatitis, a disease virtually nonexistent in North America, gives immune for 7 or more years

2. Leptospirosis, a highly-reactive “non-core” shot, not recommended for small dogs

3. Coronavirus, a vaccine specifically “not recommended”

Ok, so far is what I had prepared. However, things turned out to be quite surprising for me.

First, the vet told me that, titer test is a good thing, but not for her age now. She explained to me, Bobo only got the shots when she was a puppy and now her immune system is different. She needs a whole set of new boosters for her adult immune system and NEXT YEAR, you may consider doing a titer test.

Then she said, according to NJ state law, I have to give her Rabies this year since what she got last year is only good for one year.


So I had no choice about Rabies so she gave it to her today. But, I insisted that all the shots should be separated from each other. She asked me to come back 3 weeks later for the rest. When I told her I didn't want combination shots, she said she'll try to look for separate shots but not guarantee she can found one.

Also, when I said she insisted Hepatitis is necessary for my dog (and she would order that for me too.)

So, that was my experience today, I ended up giving her Rabies and took the Wellness blood test and Heartworm test. But I got really confused after the vet visit. I have a couple of questions here, hope you experts could help me.

1. Is Bordetella really necessary for every 6 months? Bobo mostly stay indoors but when we take her out for a walk she may encounter some other dogs.

2. Does she really need a whole set of boosters for her "Adult immune system" ?

If yes, 1) is Hepatitis/Parainfluenza necessary?
2) should I separate Distemper and Parvovirus too? Like three weeks apart?

3. Is fecal test necessary for every 6 months?

That's it, thank you everybody for reading it and helping Bobo and me!!!
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Ladysmom
Dr. Dodd's vaccine protocol has been adopted by the majority of vet schools in the US and is a good one to follow:

W Jean Dodds Vaccine Protocol VACCINATION PROTOCOLS

New Jersey requires the rabies vaccine by seven months and then every three years thereafter.

http://vaccines.dogsadversereactions.com/files/RabiesLaws.pdf

There is no difference in the one year and three year rabies vaccine. They are just packaged differently according to different state requirements.

Some Vets Rethink the Need for Annual Pet Vaccinations

Revival sells single dose vaccines. They probably aren't listed on their website, but you can call and order them:

Pet Supplies | Dog & Cat Supplies | Vaccines | Revival Animal Health

Does Bobo go to the groomers or get boarded? If so, she needs bordatella. If she is mainly an indoor dog, I wouldn't bother.

I have no idea why your vet would recommend a fecal every six months! If she is on a heartworm preventative, it will kill other worms besides heartworm. I especially like Interceptor for Maltese. I think it's the safest.

Intestinal Parasites

You sound like a very informed and thoughtful Maltese owner. Have you read the book Scared Poopless? You will love it! It's a delightful read and if you buy it from NCMR, the proceeds go to rescue.

BookScaredPoopless
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Harley & Dakotas Mum
I don't have anything to add to what Marj has already said ... except on the Bordatella ....

Harley & Dakota have never been boarded, and never will be - but they do go to the groomer, and have never once had Bordatella shots.

I guess this one is really a personal choice .... I know kennel cough can be very nasty, especially in the very young, or the elderly ones - but I made the decision not to do this one based on our lifestyle, and their age. (they are 6 & 4)
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Nikki's Mom
Vaccine protocols and advice are a generalization for ALL dogs. But not all dogs lifestyles and environments are exactly the same, so not all dogs need the same amount of vaccines, despite what we have been told.

You are your dog's advocate, and only YOU can decide which vaccinations to give, depending on YOUR dog's lifestyle/environment.

Dogs are individuals. The vet should ask you questions like: whether your dog comes in contact with other dogs, does it go outside all the time, etc. before vaccinating.

Think about the risk of contracting the diseases for YOUR DOG, and do what you believe is necessary to protect it.
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M
Good for you for doing your research, you have come up with some great questions for your vet, and in most cases I agree with your vet's answers.

Rabies - In accordance with NJ state law, your puppy was vaccinated with a 1-year rabies vaccination at approximately 6 mos. old. Whether the vaccine is really a 1-year or 3-year vaccine is immaterial in accordance with your state's laws; it was packaged and recorded as a 1-year vaccine and NJ state law requires that she get a rabies vaccination again no more than 12 mos. from her last vaccination. This schedule is in keeping with Dr. Jean Dodds' recommendations. Your dog received a 3-year vaccination yesterday and for the rest of her life, in accordance with NJ state law, will only need to be vaccinated for rabies every three years. http://www.state.nj.us/health/cd/documents/ravacpolicy.pdf

DHPP - Puppies should receive 3 sets of DHPP vaccinations, separated by 3-4 weeks, starting at 8-9 weeks old with the last of the three vaccinations given at or after 16 wks. old. They should receive a 1-year booster, 12 mos. or so after the last puppy vaccination was done. Again, this is in keeping with Dr. Dodds' vaccination recommendations. Most vets do not carry separate vaccinations and, honestly, for all the puppies and dogs I have vaccinated through the years I have never had an issue with the combo shot. That being said, I NEVER give multiple shots on the same day, i.e., rabies and DHPP. I space them out by at least 3-4 weeks and also NEVER give heartworm meds or flea/tick treatments on the same day as any vaccination. I space those out by 3-4 weeks, too. For my own dogs, once they receive their 1-yr. booster shot they get NO MORE DHPP vaccinations ever.

Bordatella - As a general rule I DO NOT vaccinate for bordatella and would not do it unless required by a boarding kennel or groomer. Bordatella (kennel cough) is a virus that is treatable. For the most part, healthy housepets do not get kennel cough and even if they did, they do not die from it. Kennel cough in dogs is like whooping cough in kids, treatable and not life threatening. Boarding kennels and groomers require the vaccination because Bordatella is an airborne virus that spreads quickly to dogs whose immune systems are weakened (generally because they are stressed out missing their humans for a week or stressed out being groomed).

Leptospirosis - Lepto vaccine should NEVER be given to a Maltese under a year old. After that, a lot depends on the dog and the area where it lives. My dogs are not field dogs, they don't go swimming in ponds or hiking through standing water or streams. I have never given Lepto and have never had a problem.

Lyme - I do not vaccinate for Lyme disease. However, I now use Frontline during tick season. I learned the hard way (one of my dogs did get Lyme disease) that I live in a deer tick area and need to address Lyme disease prevention at some level.

Fecal - I think a fecal check every 6 mos. is excessive. I do bring a stool sample in for each dog at their annual wellness exam. My dogs go to dog shows, obedience trials, dog parks, etc. None has ever shown positive for parasites.

Titers - I do not do any titer testing because I am not convinced of the accuracy. And I agree with your vet that your dog should have a 1-yr booster first. The assumption is that the 1-yr booster completes the vaccination cycle for a dog whose immune system has now reached maturity. Going forward you can titer vs. vaccinate. Since I have made the decision not to give any more vaccinations ever, I see no need to titer.

Hope this helps.
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dwerten
http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/52-maltese-health-behavior/107506-vaccine-protocol-question.html

here is some info i posted and there is a link to videos I posted as well in this thread as this should help

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/52-maltese-health-behavior/107634-how-many-times-puppy-vaccines.html

I am so happy you did your homework as so many people do not and it is up to the owner to ask questions many times about this

The one year rabies and 3 year are usually the same vaccine depending on the mfg but if your vet gives your dog the one year shot and certificate shows this then you have to do a shot the next year. It depends on your county as to if it is one year or three year as well.

splitting dhpp to parvo distemper has a double edge sword and when i discussed it with jean in a 2lb dog she said the splitting can be worse as the adjuvuncts are many times the problem in vaccination so she stated to me it may be better to give less of a dose rather than splitting the vaccines so you may want to look into that and discuss it with your vet as some vets will not give full dose of rabies and dhpp to tiny dogs but it can vary from vet to vet in what they will do

I do fecal and urine and blood work yearly but if on heartworm I think that kills parasites as well so doubt every 6 mos fecal is necessary if giving hw

I also agree with one year booster prior to titering
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jmm
I agree with Mary's post.

As far as the bordetella's efficacy...coverage greatly drops at the 6 month point which is why many boarding kennels and groomers require it every 6 months.

However, for dogs at high risk of Lepto I would start them right before the first lepto season, regardless of being a year of age by that time. The new lepto vaccine does not have the same reactions the old one did. I'll emphasize again, this is for HIGH RISK dogs.
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edelweiss
Just as information: there is currently an outbreak of lepto in Michigan & dogs have died as a result of not being vaccinated.
Good advice all the way around.
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nyx0313
Ladysmom said:
Dr. Dodd's vaccine protocol has been adopted by the majority of vet schools in the US and is a good one to follow:

W Jean Dodds Vaccine Protocol VACCINATION PROTOCOLS

New Jersey requires the rabies vaccine by seven months and then every three years thereafter.

http://vaccines.dogsadversereactions.com/files/RabiesLaws.pdf

There is no difference in the one year and three year rabies vaccine. They are just packaged differently according to different state requirements.

Some Vets Rethink the Need for Annual Pet Vaccinations

Revival sells single dose vaccines. They probably aren't listed on their website, but you can call and order them:

Pet Supplies | Dog & Cat Supplies | Vaccines | Revival Animal Health

Does Bobo go to the groomers or get boarded? If so, she needs bordatella. If she is mainly an indoor dog, I wouldn't bother.

I have no idea why your vet would recommend a fecal every six months! If she is on a heartworm preventative, it will kill other worms besides heartworm. I especially like Interceptor for Maltese. I think it's the safest.

Intestinal Parasites

You sound like a very informed and thoughtful Maltese owner. Have you read the book Scared Poopless? You will love it! It's a delightful read and if you buy it from NCMR, the proceeds go to rescue.

BookScaredPoopless
Click to expand...
Thank you for the links, they are very helpful!

Bobo does go out to dog parks sometimes. And she is on monthly heartworm preventive and flea control too.

Also, that book you recommended seems really good and I'll definitely buy it! Thank you!
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Ladysmom
nyx0313 said:
Thank you for the links, they are very helpful!

Bobo does go out to dog parks sometimes. And she is on monthly heartworm preventive and flea control too.

Also, that book you recommended seems really good and I'll definitely buy it! Thank you!
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I know several dogs who got kennel cough from dog parks.

You will love Scared Poopless, I promise!
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nyx0313
Nikki's Mom said:
Vaccine protocols and advice are a generalization for ALL dogs. But not all dogs lifestyles and environments are exactly the same, so not all dogs need the same amount of vaccines, despite what we have been told.

You are your dog's advocate, and only YOU can decide which vaccinations to give, depending on YOUR dog's lifestyle/environment.

Dogs are individuals. The vet should ask you questions like: whether your dog comes in contact with other dogs, does it go outside all the time, etc. before vaccinating.

Think about the risk of contracting the diseases for YOUR DOG, and do what you believe is necessary to protect it.
Click to expand...

Thank you Susan! I've read some of your input in other vaccination threads. And I agree at the end I have to weight the benefits versus harmfulness of vaccinations and decided which one to/not to give Bobo.

I think I just worried her too much. I read a lot of things, but you know sometimes the more I read the more confused I am. Because there is no one absolute right answer. I know it's impossible to make everything certain in Bobo's life, but those descriptions of possible threats to her health/life just scared me to dealth... So it's really difficult for me to make a decision
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nyx0313
MaryH said:
Good for you for doing your research, you have come up with some great questions for your vet, and in most cases I agree with your vet's answers.

Rabies - In accordance with NJ state law, your puppy was vaccinated with a 1-year rabies vaccination at approximately 6 mos. old. Whether the vaccine is really a 1-year or 3-year vaccine is immaterial in accordance with your state's laws; it was packaged and recorded as a 1-year vaccine and NJ state law requires that she get a rabies vaccination again no more than 12 mos. from her last vaccination. This schedule is in keeping with Dr. Jean Dodds' recommendations. Your dog received a 3-year vaccination yesterday and for the rest of her life, in accordance with NJ state law, will only need to be vaccinated for rabies every three years. http://www.state.nj.us/health/cd/documents/ravacpolicy.pdf

DHPP - Puppies should receive 3 sets of DHPP vaccinations, separated by 3-4 weeks, starting at 8-9 weeks old with the last of the three vaccinations given at or after 16 wks. old. They should receive a 1-year booster, 12 mos. or so after the last puppy vaccination was done. Again, this is in keeping with Dr. Dodds' vaccination recommendations. Most vets do not carry separate vaccinations and, honestly, for all the puppies and dogs I have vaccinated through the years I have never had an issue with the combo shot. That being said, I NEVER give multiple shots on the same day, i.e., rabies and DHPP. I space them out by at least 3-4 weeks and also NEVER give heartworm meds or flea/tick treatments on the same day as any vaccination. I space those out by 3-4 weeks, too. For my own dogs, once they receive their 1-yr. booster shot they get NO MORE DHPP vaccinations ever.

Bordatella - As a general rule I DO NOT vaccinate for bordatella and would not do it unless required by a boarding kennel or groomer. Bordatella (kennel cough) is a virus that is treatable. For the most part, healthy housepets do not get kennel cough and even if they did, they do not die from it. Kennel cough in dogs is like whooping cough in kids, treatable and not life threatening. Boarding kennels and groomers require the vaccination because Bordatella is an airborne virus that spreads quickly to dogs whose immune systems are weakened (generally because they are stressed out missing their humans for a week or stressed out being groomed).

Leptospirosis - Lepto vaccine should NEVER be given to a Maltese under a year old. After that, a lot depends on the dog and the area where it lives. My dogs are not field dogs, they don't go swimming in ponds or hiking through standing water or streams. I have never given Lepto and have never had a problem.

Lyme - I do not vaccinate for Lyme disease. However, I now use Frontline during tick season. I learned the hard way (one of my dogs did get Lyme disease) that I live in a deer tick area and need to address Lyme disease prevention at some level.

Fecal - I think a fecal check every 6 mos. is excessive. I do bring a stool sample in for each dog at their annual wellness exam. My dogs go to dog shows, obedience trials, dog parks, etc. None has ever shown positive for parasites.

Titers - I do not do any titer testing because I am not convinced of the accuracy. And I agree with your vet that your dog should have a 1-yr booster first. The assumption is that the 1-yr booster completes the vaccination cycle for a dog whose immune system has now reached maturity. Going forward you can titer vs. vaccinate. Since I have made the decision not to give any more vaccinations ever, I see no need to titer.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Thank you Mary! Very detailed explanations! Just to clarify..

Do you separate Flea control and Heartworm preventive too? I usually give both to Bobo on the first day of every month.

For Bordetella, I intent to give her every 6 month..first of all, I live in a neighborhood with many dogs, and sometimes it is not very difficult to tell some owners just don't care their dog as much...and Bobo will meet them on the road sometimes...Then after reading your explanation I was more confirmed with my decision, because Bobo is a really sentimental dog, she is extremely easily get stressed/scared/nervous...

Lyme: do you mean flea and tick control, like Frontline, helps with preventing lyme disease?

Thank you!!
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nyx0313
dwerten said:
http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/52-maltese-health-behavior/107506-vaccine-protocol-question.html

here is some info i posted and there is a link to videos I posted as well in this thread as this should help

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/52-maltese-health-behavior/107634-how-many-times-puppy-vaccines.html

I am so happy you did your homework as so many people do not and it is up to the owner to ask questions many times about this

The one year rabies and 3 year are usually the same vaccine depending on the mfg but if your vet gives your dog the one year shot and certificate shows this then you have to do a shot the next year. It depends on your county as to if it is one year or three year as well.

splitting dhpp to parvo distemper has a double edge sword and when i discussed it with jean in a 2lb dog she said the splitting can be worse as the adjuvuncts are many times the problem in vaccination so she stated to me it may be better to give less of a dose rather than splitting the vaccines so you may want to look into that and discuss it with your vet as some vets will not give full dose of rabies and dhpp to tiny dogs but it can vary from vet to vet in what they will do

I do fecal and urine and blood work yearly but if on heartworm I think that kills parasites as well so doubt every 6 mos fecal is necessary if giving hw

I also agree with one year booster prior to titering
Click to expand...
Thank you!! But what is "adjuvuncts"? Sorry I'm from China and my English is not that good...I've been learning a lot of big new words recently...:blush:
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nyx0313
jmm said:
I agree with Mary's post.

As far as the bordetella's efficacy...coverage greatly drops at the 6 month point which is why many boarding kennels and groomers require it every 6 months.

However, for dogs at high risk of Lepto I would start them right before the first lepto season, regardless of being a year of age by that time. The new lepto vaccine does not have the same reactions the old one did. I'll emphasize again, this is for HIGH RISK dogs.
Click to expand...
Thank you!! We do live near a river (Hudson River) but she won't drink/play in it. She does sometimes plays on the grass and I don't know if they irrigate by using the river water...Also, I heard people around me saying that NJ's tap water is really bad, and when I give her bathe, she usually takes in a little bit...Otherwise she only drinks pure water. Is that a problem?
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dwerten
nyx0313 said:
Thank you!! But what is "adjuvuncts"? Sorry I'm from China and my English is not that good...I've been learning a lot of big new words recently...:blush:
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adjuvuncts preserve the vaccine and many times they use mercury - lepto is known to cause the most reactions in toy breeds but good to know the newer one like Jackie has stated is better

lyme is contracted by deer ticks so if you have alot of deer ticks in your area it is something to consider

my bad it is adjunct and Thymosin is another one they use
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dwerten
edelweiss said:
Just as information: there is currently an outbreak of lepto in Michigan & dogs have died as a result of not being vaccinated.
Good advice all the way around.
Click to expand...
This is very sad :( but sadly many dogs who get parvo have never had their puppy shots as people get dogs and do not ever vaccinate them as puppies then they come down with this. The specialty hospital I spoke with said parvo is everywhere and you can bring it into your home with your shoes so when you go to dog shows etc they say you should wipe the bottom of your shoes with a bleach wet wipe but they told me as long as your dogs have the puppy shots and then to get that one year booster to reinsure then they should be fine but each person needs to decide what is best for their dog depending on life style and area. My only concern is with dogs with health issues or previous reactions as each reaction can be worse and a dog with health issues should not be vaccinated until healthy and also not vaccinating when having things done like surgery.

here is some info from ucdavis

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vmth/small_animal/internal_medicine/vaccination_protocols.cfm
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Nikki's Mom
If you bring Parvo home on your shoes it does not mean your dog will automatically get it. Diseases can be avoided because healthy dogs are born with an immune system, which is there to fight diseases.

A healthy dog with a strong immune system is much less likely to contract communicable disease, get fleas, ticks, infections, etc.

You can help strengthen your dog's immune system by ensuring your dogs get fresh clean air, by keeping your dog's environment allergy and fragrance-free, by feeding him/her nourishing food, providing clean filtered water, and by giving them lots of love and attention.

Vaccines should only be given to healthy dogs. It says so right on the label.
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jmm
Try adjuvant
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dwerten
jmm said:
Try adjuvant
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yeah that too LOL thanks Jackie :)
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dwerten
Nikki's Mom said:
If you bring Parvo home on your shoes it does not mean your dog will automatically get it. Diseases can be avoided because healthy dogs are born with an immune system, which is there to fight diseases.

A healthy dog with a strong immune system is much less likely to contract communicable disease, get fleas, ticks, infections, etc.

You can help strengthen your dog's immune system by ensuring your dogs get fresh clean air, by keeping your dog's environment allergy and fragrance-free, by feeding him/her nourishing food, providing clean filtered water, and by giving them lots of love and attention.

Vaccines should only be given to healthy dogs. It says so right on the label.
Click to expand...
I agree as that plumber brought it in my home I believe since his dog was in the hospital that week he came into my home twice yet never told us until i started asking questions - what is scary is if he went into a home with a brand new puppy with not all their vaccinations :( I was most nervous with Dee Dee since she has a poor immune system then on top of that she is on steroids an immune suppressant drug so it was a double whammy along with her not have her one year booster I thought that is 3 strikes but she was fine no issues.
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