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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, Everyone.

I'm new and I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with Hepatic Microvasular Dysplasia in a puppy, and if so, how is your little one now?

Thank you.

Sheila
 

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I have two MVD dogs and there are a few others on this board as well. One of my boys acts totally normal and does great without any major treatments. The other is chronically ill and not doing well at all...2 ends of the spectrum. Most dogs do pretty well with dietary and medical management.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you for replying. I'm sorry to hear that one of your boys is not doing well.
May I ask how were they diagnosed, and at what ages, and was one symptomatic, and the other, not, at time of diagnosis?
 

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Originally posted by yorkieville@Aug 6 2005, 03:35 PM
Thank you for replying. I'm sorry to hear that one of your boys is not doing well.
May I ask how were they diagnosed, and at what ages, and was one symptomatic, and the other, not, at time of diagnosis?
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[/QUOTE]


MVD is only diagnosed via biopsy. Both of my dogs had biopsies.

The older, asymptomatic dog was worked up for having a seizure. In the course of that work up we found his bile acids to be mildly elevated and he appeared to have a slightly small liver but no shunt vessel. To ensure liver disease was not causing his seizures, we did an exploratory and biopsy. His seizures are totally unrelated (he has mild epilepsy - probably from hydrocephalus - and seizures 1-2x/year). Essentially, he's never been symptomatic for liver disease. That scares me as he easily could have been bred since nobody tests bile acids...

The other dog started with chronic GI problems at about 13 months. He was endoscoped at about 18 months. He was 3 when my other dog, who is related to him, was diagnosed. We tested his bile acids which were moderately elevated. His supposed IBD started getting worse at that time so after no shunt vessel was found, we did an exploratory for GI and liver biopsies.

Both dogs have MVD and eosinophilic hepatic venule inflammation. The asymptomatic dog's inflammation is so mild no treatment was recommended. The other dog has IBD in addition as well as fibrosis and vacuolar hepatopathy as his disease is progressive since no therapy ever really got the inflammation under control.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
A puppy that I am adopting through a rescue is having a Technetium Scan to rule out liver shunt. If there is no shunt, they are going with a diagnosis of MVD, based on lab work. It makes me uneasy that they are not doing a liver biopsy. But I will wait and see what the scan shows.

Am I correct in thinking that the only way to determine if the liver is inflamed, is with a biopsy?

This puppy came into at rescue, showing symptoms at 4 & 1/2 months. She is now 7 months old.

Does your symptomatic boys symptoms wax and wane, or is he always sick?
 

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Originally posted by yorkieville@Aug 7 2005, 11:27 AM
A puppy that I am adopting through a rescue is having a Technetium Scan to rule out liver shunt. If there is no shunt, they are going with a diagnosis of MVD, based on lab work. It makes me uneasy that they are not doing a liver biopsy. But I will wait and see what the scan shows.

Am I correct in thinking that the only way to determine if the liver is inflamed, is with a biopsy?

This puppy came into at rescue, showing symptoms at 4 & 1/2 months. She is now 7 months old.

Does your symptomatic boys symptoms wax and wane, or is he always sick?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=88002
[/QUOTE]

Biopsy is the only way to know for sure if it is MVD, if there is also inflammation, or if there is some other pathology. If she has shown symptoms, I would also be inclined to want a biopsy done. Is she spayed yet? They could do both at once...

My symptomatic boy is pretty much always sick now. He use to have good months and then would be sick for a while. As he has progressed, he is pretty much sick and requires medication for nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea all of the time. He gets stomach ulcers and ascending infections into his liver easily. He's unusual in not responding to treatment...most dogs, even if they need meds, can have a pretty good life.
 

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Originally posted by JMM+Aug 11 2005, 04:27 PM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-yorkieville
@Aug 7 2005, 11:27 AM
A puppy that I am adopting through a rescue is having a Technetium Scan to rule out liver shunt. If there is no shunt, they are going with a diagnosis of MVD, based on lab work. It makes me uneasy that they are not doing a liver biopsy. But I will wait and see what the scan shows.

Am I correct in thinking that the only way to determine if the liver is inflamed, is with a biopsy?

This puppy came into at rescue, showing symptoms at 4 & 1/2 months. She is now 7 months old.

Does your symptomatic boys symptoms wax and wane, or is he always sick?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=88002
Biopsy is the only way to know for sure if it is MVD, if there is also inflammation, or if there is some other pathology. If she has shown symptoms, I would also be inclined to want a biopsy done. Is she spayed yet? They could do both at once...

My symptomatic boy is pretty much always sick now. He use to have good months and then would be sick for a while. As he has progressed, he is pretty much sick and requires medication for nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea all of the time. He gets stomach ulcers and ascending infections into his liver easily. He's unusual in not responding to treatment...most dogs, even if they need meds, can have a pretty good life.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=89584
[/B][/QUOTE]

Gosh, Jackie, I'm so sorry to hear that Mikey is not responding to treatment... that is just so sad...
 

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Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom+Aug 11 2005, 04:48 PM-->
Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 04:27 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-yorkieville
@Aug 7 2005, 11:27 AM
A puppy that I am adopting through a rescue is having a Technetium Scan to rule out liver shunt. If there is no shunt, they are going with a diagnosis of MVD, based on lab work. It makes me uneasy that they are not doing a liver biopsy. But I will wait and see what the scan shows.

Am I correct in thinking that the only way to determine if the liver is inflamed, is with a biopsy?

This puppy came into at rescue, showing symptoms at 4 & 1/2 months. She is now 7 months old.

Does your symptomatic boys symptoms wax and wane, or is he always sick?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=88002


Biopsy is the only way to know for sure if it is MVD, if there is also inflammation, or if there is some other pathology. If she has shown symptoms, I would also be inclined to want a biopsy done. Is she spayed yet? They could do both at once...

My symptomatic boy is pretty much always sick now. He use to have good months and then would be sick for a while. As he has progressed, he is pretty much sick and requires medication for nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea all of the time. He gets stomach ulcers and ascending infections into his liver easily. He's unusual in not responding to treatment...most dogs, even if they need meds, can have a pretty good life.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=89584

[/QUOTE]

Gosh, Jackie, I'm so sorry to hear that Mikey is not responding to treatment... that is just so sad...
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=89610
[/B][/QUOTE]
I was just going to say the same thing
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Originally posted by JMM+Aug 11 2005, 03:27 PM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-yorkieville
@Aug 7 2005, 11:27 AM
A puppy that I am adopting through a rescue is having a Technetium Scan to rule out liver shunt. If there is no shunt, they are going with a diagnosis of MVD, based on lab work. It makes me uneasy that they are not doing a liver biopsy. But I will wait and see what the scan shows.

Am I correct in thinking that the only way to determine if the liver is inflamed, is with a biopsy?

This puppy came into at rescue, showing symptoms at 4 & 1/2 months. She is now 7 months old.

Does your symptomatic boys symptoms wax and wane, or is he always sick?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=88002
Biopsy is the only way to know for sure if it is MVD, if there is also inflammation, or if there is some other pathology. If she has shown symptoms, I would also be inclined to want a biopsy done. Is she spayed yet? They could do both at once...

My symptomatic boy is pretty much always sick now. He use to have good months and then would be sick for a while. As he has progressed, he is pretty much sick and requires medication for nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea all of the time. He gets stomach ulcers and ascending infections into his liver easily. He's unusual in not responding to treatment...most dogs, even if they need meds, can have a pretty good life.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=89584
[/B][/QUOTE]

I am so sorry that your symptomatic little boy is sick pretty much all the time now. I know how hard that is on you. The last 4 years of my first little one's life, were so hard. No, the puppy is not spayed yet. They did the Technetium Scan today and they are not going to do a biopsy. They have decided to go with the diagnosis of MVD based on tests, and the fact that she does not have a shunt. She has a very poor appetite. She's so very thin. Weighs just 2#s, but has the same frame size as my 4# Yorkie.

I'm very concerned about the decision not to do a biopsy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Originally posted by JMM+Aug 11 2005, 03:27 PM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-yorkieville
@Aug 7 2005, 11:27 AM
A puppy that I am adopting through a rescue is having a Technetium Scan to rule out liver shunt. If there is no shunt, they are going with a diagnosis of MVD, based on lab work. It makes me uneasy that they are not doing a liver biopsy. But I will wait and see what the scan shows.

Am I correct in thinking that the only way to determine if the liver is inflamed, is with a biopsy?

This puppy came into at rescue, showing symptoms at 4 & 1/2 months. She is now 7 months old.

Does your symptomatic boys symptoms wax and wane, or is he always sick?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=88002
Biopsy is the only way to know for sure if it is MVD, if there is also inflammation, or if there is some other pathology. If she has shown symptoms, I would also be inclined to want a biopsy done. Is she spayed yet? They could do both at once...

My symptomatic boy is pretty much always sick now. He use to have good months and then would be sick for a while. As he has progressed, he is pretty much sick and requires medication for nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea all of the time. He gets stomach ulcers and ascending infections into his liver easily. He's unusual in not responding to treatment...most dogs, even if they need meds, can have a pretty good life.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=89584
[/B][/QUOTE]


Please, please everyone forgive me! I was trying to post and somehow I messed things up and this posted 3 times. My only excuse is that I have not had any sleep since Tuesday night, because my sister had a biopsy this a.m., and I've been on the road back and forth and up at the hospital, 2 hour trip each way. Really sorry.
I couldn't find a way to delete the posts. Believee, I'm no computer genius.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Originally posted by JMM+Aug 11 2005, 03:27 PM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-yorkieville
@Aug 7 2005, 11:27 AM
A puppy that I am adopting through a rescue is having a Technetium Scan to rule out liver shunt. If there is no shunt, they are going with a diagnosis of MVD, based on lab work. It makes me uneasy that they are not doing a liver biopsy. But I will wait and see what the scan shows.

Am I correct in thinking that the only way to determine if the liver is inflamed, is with a biopsy?

This puppy came into at rescue, showing symptoms at 4 & 1/2 months. She is now 7 months old.

Does your symptomatic boys symptoms wax and wane, or is he always sick?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=88002
Biopsy is the only way to know for sure if it is MVD, if there is also inflammation, or if there is some other pathology. If she has shown symptoms, I would also be inclined to want a biopsy done. Is she spayed yet? They could do both at once...

My symptomatic boy is pretty much always sick now. He use to have good months and then would be sick for a while. As he has progressed, he is pretty much sick and requires medication for nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea all of the time. He gets stomach ulcers and ascending infections into his liver easily. He's unusual in not responding to treatment...most dogs, even if they need meds, can have a pretty good life.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=89584
[/B][/QUOTE]
 

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Gosh, Jackie, I'm so sorry to hear that Mikey is not responding to treatment... that is just so sad...
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[/QUOTE]


Thanks, girls. He's starting a chemo drug that sometimes works for IBD next week. He has another stomach ulcer right now so needs a week of healing before we switch drugs on him. He's so skinny now (1 1/2 lbs underweight) but still happy and feeling ok with his pain meds.
 

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Gosh, Jackie, I'm so sorry to hear that Mikey is not responding to treatment... that is just so sad...
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=89610

Thanks, girls. He's starting a chemo drug that sometimes works for IBD next week. He has another stomach ulcer right now so needs a week of healing before we switch drugs on him. He's so skinny now (1 1/2 lbs underweight) but still happy and feeling ok with his pain meds.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=89689
[/QUOTE]

I just love looking at those wonderful agility pictures you sent the site. It is hard to believe this wonderful little boy is now fighting for his life. Please keep us posted on his condition. I'll include Mikey in my prayers.
 

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Gosh, Jackie, I'm so sorry to hear that Mikey is not responding to treatment... that is just so sad...
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=89610

Thanks, girls. He's starting a chemo drug that sometimes works for IBD next week. He has another stomach ulcer right now so needs a week of healing before we switch drugs on him. He's so skinny now (1 1/2 lbs underweight) but still happy and feeling ok with his pain meds.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=89689
[/QUOTE]
Oh, I'm so sorry, Mikey is such a beautiful dog, I cant believe this is happening to him. Best of wishes and he will be in my prayers
 

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Originally posted by yorkieville+Aug 11 2005, 08:01 PM-->
Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 03:27 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-yorkieville
@Aug 7 2005, 11:27 AM
A puppy that I am adopting through a rescue is having a Technetium Scan to rule out liver shunt. If there is no shunt, they are going with a diagnosis of MVD, based on lab work. It makes me uneasy that they are not doing a liver biopsy. But I will wait and see what the scan shows.

Am I correct in thinking that the only way to determine if the liver is inflamed, is with a biopsy?

This puppy came into at rescue, showing symptoms at 4 & 1/2 months. She is now 7 months old.

Does your symptomatic boys symptoms wax and wane, or is he always sick?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=88002


Biopsy is the only way to know for sure if it is MVD, if there is also inflammation, or if there is some other pathology. If she has shown symptoms, I would also be inclined to want a biopsy done. Is she spayed yet? They could do both at once...

My symptomatic boy is pretty much always sick now. He use to have good months and then would be sick for a while. As he has progressed, he is pretty much sick and requires medication for nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea all of the time. He gets stomach ulcers and ascending infections into his liver easily. He's unusual in not responding to treatment...most dogs, even if they need meds, can have a pretty good life.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=89584

[/QUOTE]


Please, please everyone forgive me! I was trying to post and somehow I messed things up and this posted 3 times. My only excuse is that I have not had any sleep since Tuesday night, because my sister had a biopsy this a.m., and I've been on the road back and forth and up at the hospital, 2 hour trip each way. Really sorry.
I couldn't find a way to delete the posts. Believee, I'm no computer genius.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=89686
[/B][/QUOTE]

You're forgiven!!
No problem... it has happened to most of us, actually. What you can do is go to "EDIT" below the post and then just remove (delete key) the text and type in "Double post", "Triple post" or something like that.

I hope everything is OK with your sister......
 

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Poor poor Mickey. It's hard to believe that such a beautiful dog can be sooo sick. It breaks my heart to hear that he is not getting better. He is lucky to have you, Jackie, take care of him. He might not be still alive otherwise.
 

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JMM: I am crushed to hear about Mikey.....I so hoped he would stabilize and I know it must be very hard on you, too. I will keep you both in my prayers.

Yorkieville: My Pico has MVD and was diagnosed around 18 months without a biopsy. We did the sonogram and the radioactive survey which ruled out liver shunt, tumor and infection. So, rather than put him through the biopsy, the Nuclear Medicine Vet, my vet (who has had Maltese for 20 years and has 3 now, one of which has MVD) and I all agreed to just assume MVD and treat as such.

Pico is 4 1/2 now and weighs 4.5 pounds. I home cook for him using high quality proteins (organic chicken & eggs, low fat cottage cheese), low fat and veggies. He also gets dry kibble (Science Diet l/d) in between meals. Treats are low fat, low cal cheerios or PupCorn and I supplement him with Calcium and Denosyl 90mg. Denosyl is for animals what SAMe is for adults....it is just formulated for animals. It is a naturally occurring element in the body which improves hepatic function.

So far his numbers (bile) have been good and he is asymptomatic, although he has not been tested since I started home cooking for him. That is due this fall sometime and he gets a blood panel once a year.

So, for some MVD dogs life is fairly normal. Then there's sweet Mikey, which just breaks my heart. Kodie is MVD, too. (Kodie's Mom) You may be hearing from her, too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
You're forgiven!!
No problem... it has happened to most of us, actually. What you can do is go to "EDIT" below the post and then just remove (delete key) the text and type in "Double post", "Triple post" or something like that.

I hope everything is OK with your sister......

<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=89772
[/QUOTE]

Thanks, I was so embarrassed.

Thank you for the well wishes about my sister. She had her biopsy, doctor said it looked clean, no evidence of cancer, just waiting for the pathologists report.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Yorkieville: My Pico has MVD and was diagnosed around 18 months without a biopsy. We did the sonogram and the radioactive survey which ruled out liver shunt, tumor and infection. So, rather than put him through the biopsy, the Nuclear Medicine Vet, my vet (who has had Maltese for 20 years and has 3 now, one of which has MVD) and I all agreed to just assume MVD and treat as such.

Pico is 4 1/2 now and weighs 4.5 pounds. I home cook for him using high quality proteins (organic chicken & eggs, low fat cottage cheese), low fat and veggies. He also gets dry kibble (Science Diet l/d) in between meals. Treats are low fat, low cal cheerios or PupCorn and I supplement him with Calcium and Denosyl 90mg. Denosyl is for animals what SAMe is for adults....it is just formulated for animals. It is a naturally occurring element in the body which improves hepatic function.

So far his numbers (bile) have been good and he is asymptomatic, although he has not been tested since I started home cooking for him. That is due this fall sometime and he gets a blood panel once a year.

So, for some MVD dogs life is fairly normal. Then there's sweet Mikey, which just breaks my heart. Kodie is MVD, too. (Kodie's Mom) You may be hearing from her, too.
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[/QUOTE]

Pamela,
It sounds like I needn't worry about the puppy having a biopsy then, since they did the scan. I like the fact that you cook for Pico. I think it would be far healthier and more appetizing.

I agree, my heart breaks for Mikey, too. I am going to keep that sweet little guy at the top of my prayer list.

Sheila
 

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If you would be more comfortable with a biopsy, have it done when she is spayed. She already has to have an abdominal incision...it will just be a little bigger and she'll need more careful monitoring post-operatively (usually a full day at the vet after to continue monitoring the PCV or blood pressure to ensure there is no bleeding). She'll also need her clotting factors (PT/PTT, CBC) checked before surgery.
 
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