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This is a great checklist. It said this should be the minimum standards for a good breeder. I would also add that the breeder should be raising dogs for quality and to breed the "perfect" example of the breed. The dogs that can't be shown would be the dogs that are sold. Neither of my breeders were in the business of selling puppies. They sold the puppies that didn't meet the breed standard but it wasn't a livelihood for them. I hope this makes sense. That isn't to say that their prices weren't high because they were - but these two breeders (bichon and maltese) weren't trying to breed dogs to sell; rather they were breeding dogs to show. And they would only have a litter or two a year.
 

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Sign a contract stating that you will return the dog to the breeder should you be unable to keep the dog at any point in the dog's life.[/B]
REALLY!?!?!?!? SERIOUSLY???

I know of breeders who would accept back their babies if they had some medical issue, but "any"? Did anyone here signed a contract or had their breeder signed a contract like this?
 

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yeah, i didnt sign a contract, but the "broker"(i thought she was a breeder, but after reading all those articles...i was wrong) told me that she'd take the dogs back whenever. she was like "i dont want them to be in a position where they are left with someone that doesnt want them or if they get sick and you cant afford it...bring them back to me because i care about them". she seemed really nice.
 

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My contract says that if, for any reason, we can't keep or don't want to keep Sadie, we are required to return her to the breeder. I assume that this also precludes us from selling her to another person. I don't know the legalities of this, but we wouldn't sell her, give her away, or anything else.
 

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Originally posted by msmagnolia@Nov 9 2004, 06:13 PM
My contract says that if, for any reason, we can't keep or don't want to keep Sadie, we are required to return her to the breeder.  I assume that this also precludes us from selling her to another person.  I don't know the legalities of this, but we wouldn't sell her, give her away, or anything else.
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Hmmmm, that requirement does make a lot of sense. The breeder has "approved" you for her precious puppy but not necessarily the person you could sell her to, not that you would... but just hypothetically... I would think breeders who truly care about their puppies would include this statement.... This could also prevent someone posing as buying the puppy for themselves when in actuality they were a broker.
 

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Originally posted by LadysMom@Nov 9 2004, 03:05 PM
Sorry, Mee, that first link was in PDF format and not everyone can open that.

Here's the same list from our local SPCA here in Raleigh:

http://www.spcawake.org/breeder.html
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Thank you !!

but

>The breeder should have had the puppy's parents tested (and should have the results from the parent's parents) to ensure they are free of those defects, and she should be able to provide you with documentation for all testing she has done through organizations such as the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA).

i never asked my breeder for these...i never even considered asking for it..i trust her a lot and am considering to adopt another maltese from her later on when the timing is right..

what if a breeder doesnt provide you with one? does that mean she/he is a bad breeder??
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Part of the responsibilty of breeding is insuring that genetic defects are not passed on so, yes, a good breeder will always do genetic testing on dogs used for breeding. Is a breeder who doesn't do genetic testing "bad"? In my opinion, she is as breeds can be ruined by irresponsible breeding.

Genetic screening is expensive and those breeders only in it to turn a profit obviously want to cut their expenses to maximize their profits.

Here is a good article that explains some of the genetic testing done:

http://www.canismajor.com/dog/gscreen.html

As a practical matter, I think it is important for anyone looking to get a puppy to try to remember that this is hopefully a 15 year commitment, not just a cute puppy. A dog with genetic "timebombs" like my Lady has can be a huge financial commitment. Many dogs end up in rescue because their owners are simply not able to afford that expensive orthopedic surgery, for example or unwillingly to give daily insulin shots. It can also be a heartbreaking experience to deal with a dog with a chronic illness, especially if they don't live their full life expectancy.
 

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Originally posted by LadysMom@Nov 10 2004, 07:52 AM
Part of the responsibilty of breeding is insuring that genetic defects are not passed on so, yes, a good breeder will always do genetic testing on dogs used for breeding. Is a breeder who doesn't do genetic testing "bad"? In my opinion, she is as breeds can be ruined by irresponsible breeding.

Genetic screening is expensive and those breeders only in it to turn a profit obviously want to cut their expenses to maximize their profits.

Here is a good article that explains some of the genetic testing done:

http://www.canismajor.com/dog/gscreen.html

As a practical matter, I think it is important for anyone looking to get a puppy to try to remember that this is hopefully a 15 year commitment, not just a cute puppy. A dog with genetic "timebombs" like my Lady has can be a huge financial commitment. Many dogs end up in rescue because their owners are simply not able to afford that expensive orthopedic surgery, for example or unwillingly to give daily insulin shots. It can also be a heartbreaking experience to deal with a dog with a chronic illness, especially if they don't live their full life expectancy.
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I recall reading something on the AKC website regarding genetic testing. I can also tell you that if your dog's mother has been artificially inseminated (which is very often the case) then there are strict guidelines on genetic testing of the sperm. Of course all this information flew out the window for us when we saw how cute our puppy is. But I do know that the breeder we are using does genetically test her dogs.
 

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Originally posted by ButterCloudandNoriko@Nov 9 2004, 03:19 PM
QUOTE
Sign a contract stating that you will return the dog to the breeder should you be unable to keep the dog at any point in the dog's life.
REALLY!?!?!?!? SERIOUSLY???

I know of breeders who would accept back their babies if they had some medical issue, but "any"? Did anyone here signed a contract or had their breeder signed a contract like this?
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This is a really sore topic for me, putting Home breeders in the same area of Puppy Miller/Brokers
.... And I really don’t want to get off on my soapbox. I do have to say this...I give a one year health guarantee and I will take back ANY puppy I have place at ANYTIME. In fact In the contract, IF for some reason they no longer can keep the fur baby. "I" get them back, and will attempt to place in another suitable home of MY choice. After all my research and questions to the adoptive wanta be's .... And the excellent health of my babies I have never had the pleasure of getting one of the babies I have placed back.

I do baby-sit my previously placed fur-babies... In fact we have had a special guest over Thanksgiving.. "Puddles” She is a real sweetie.
 

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Originally posted by Joy+Nov 27 2004, 11:16 AM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-ButterCloudandNoriko
@Nov 9 2004, 03:19 PM
QUOTE
<div class='quotemain'>Sign a contract stating that you will return the dog to the breeder should you be unable to keep the dog at any point in the dog's life.
REALLY!?!?!?!? SERIOUSLY???

I know of breeders who would accept back their babies if they had some medical issue, but "any"? Did anyone here signed a contract or had their breeder signed a contract like this?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=15593
[/B][/QUOTE]


This is a really sore topic for me, putting Home breeders in the same area of Puppy Miller/Brokers
.... And I really don’t want to get off on my soapbox. I do have to say this...I give a one year health guarantee and I will take back ANY puppy I have place at ANYTIME. In fact In the contract, IF for some reason they no longer can keep the fur baby. "I" get them back, and will attempt to place in another suitable home of MY choice. After all my research and questions to the adoptive wanta be's .... And the excellent health of my babies I have never had the pleasure of getting one of the babies I have placed back.

I do baby-sit my previously placed fur-babies... In fact we have had a special guest over Thanksgiving.. "Puddles” She is a real sweetie.
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Hi Joy, I think "home breeders" in this case refers to the folks like those I bought Kallie from. This was a family who had a male and a female Maltese and they bred them. They had never bred before nor did they do any genetic testing, etc. Both the dam and sire had come from two different pet stores.

I'm not sure what you would call small breeders like you who breed responsibly in their homes... actually that would encompass most good breeders. So, in this case, I'm guessing that "home" breeder is used as a pejorative and refers to the "breeders" like I mentioned above regarding Kallie's parentage. (I didn't know any better at the time...... but it has worked out wonderfully.... so far... knock on wood!)
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I think "backyard breeder" is the term I've heard the most. In it's negative definition, it means the person who gets a pet quality female Maltese from a not-so-good-breeder or a pet shop, then breeds her at 1 year or so to any male Maltese in the neighborhood without a thought to genetics, then sells the puppies without so much as a thought for financial or any other kind of lifelong responsibily to these puppies.

Joy, I checked out your website and you certainly don't fit the "backyard breeder" description. I'd get a puppy from you in a heartbeat!

I didn't realize Denise's Isa came from you! I've been trying tell Denise about this forum as I think she'd be a great asset, but my emails to her new address keep bouncing back. Can you get in touch with her?
 

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Macy's breeder also told me the same thing .... "I bred her, and I'm responsible for her. If you EVER can't keep her for any reason, please call me immediately, and I will always take her back."
 

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Originally posted by ButterCloudandNoriko@Nov 9 2004, 03:19 PM
QUOTE
Sign a contract stating that you will return the dog to the breeder should you be unable to keep the dog at any point in the dog's life.
REALLY!?!?!?!? SERIOUSLY???

I know of breeders who would accept back their babies if they had some medical issue, but "any"? Did anyone here signed a contract or had their breeder signed a contract like this?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=15593
[/B][/QUOTE]

All my puppies (with the exception of Cookie) MUST be returned to their breeder if for any reason I can't keep them any more. Most reputable and good breeders require this. When they sell a puppy, they are still responsible for the puppy for life.
 
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