[beachgirl]

Ladysmom, I see the name of my breeder on the B list (http://prisonersofgreed.org/listb02.pdf)
what does that mean? Is she a broker? How do I go about tracing my puppys origin, I am so upset right now.

This is so hard, I am obsessed with finding out if my puppy came from a legit source. She is fine, healthy and awesome i just want to know if I was mislead as to her origins, I have now idea where to start.

 

[Ladysmom]

If you got her from a pet shop, you can trace her roots here:

http://www.nopuppymills.com/

If your breeder is on the USDA (United States Division of Agriculture), she is what we commonly call a puppy mill. The USDA regulates livestock and through the Animal Welfare Act, breeders and brokers who sell to pet shops are required to be licensed with the USDA. They must follow certain rules about sanitary conditions, cages, food and water supply, etc. Unfortunately, unless there is a complaint, the USDA often relies on annual reports from the breeders and brokers themselves rather than in person inspections which can mean many of these poor dogs are living in deplorable conditions and in very poor health.

Unsuspecting people are often shocked and upset as you are to find out a little puppy they thought was lovingly raised in a home really started her life more like a rabbit, in a dirty cage stacked on top of other cages.

 

[beachgirl]

I did not get her from a pet store, but from a woman who is her "friend," in the friends home...she had a few other breeds in pens in her garage, I must say it was all VERY clean/tidy and the woman seemed very loving the pups all loved her. She let me in her house to use the bathroom, again very tidy/clean. The woman that I met must be a broker she said she had picked up my puppy and siblings 2 days earlier, and she did not ask me about myself etc. said she had even owned a pet store years ago...I had been communicating with her via email for a while and felt really good about it all however...

her web site is Seattlepet.com---what do you think.

My puppy is perfectly fine healthy happy, i have a friend who would like to purchase one, but since I got Sophie 3 months ago I have become so much more informed and I don't know if this is all "hobby breeding" as advertised or not.

I did order the report that Jodi informed us on this morning.

 

[Ladysmom]

If you read the topic "How to Find a Good Breeder" and the cehcklist from the Humane Society, that should give you an idea how a responsible breeder operates. Bottom line is that a responsible breeder truly cares about the well being of her puppies and would never, ever let them go to a third party to be sold without having any say in where her they will end up. As far as the ad goes, of course, no one is going to advertise that they get their puppies from puppy mills, so I wouldn't believe anything claimed on that website.

Unfortunately, the fact that the broker's place was clean has nothing to do with the situation your puppy was born into. Most puppy mill puppies are raised like rabbits in cages stacked one on top of one another.

The best rule on buying a puppy is to visit the breeder before, see BOTH parents, get vet records for both parents (you want to make sure genetic screening was done before breeding) and get references from happy customers many years later.

While a puppy that you've only had a few months can seem heathly, happy and awesome, genetic problems often don't surface for years (epilepsy, for instance, usually doesn't begin until a dog is 1-5 years old).

Not only is it hearbreaking to have a dog with a chronic illness, it can be financially devastating. Not many people buy a puppy with the expectation that their medications alone will run upwards of $150 a month, as is the case with my Lady. Do the math - that's nearly $2,000 a year and doesn't include vet bills which have exceeded $1,000 for the past several years.

 

[k/c mom]

Originally posted by beachgirl@Nov 22 2004, 01:36 PM
I did not get her from a pet store, but from a woman who is her "friend," in the friends home...she had a few other breeds in pens in her garage, I must say it was all VERY clean/tidy and the woman seemed very loving the pups all loved her. She let me in her house to use the bathroom, again very tidy/clean. The woman that I met must be a broker she said she had picked up my puppy and siblings 2 days earlier, and she did not ask me about myself etc. said she had even owned a pet store years ago...I had been communicating with her via email for a while and felt really good about it all however...

her web site is Seattlepet.com---what do you think.

My puppy is perfectly fine healthy happy, i have a friend who would like to purchase one, but since I got Sophie 3 months ago I have become so much more informed and I don't know if this is all "hobby breeding" as advertised or not.

I did order the report that Jodi informed us on this morning.
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If she said she picked up the puppies elsewhere then, yes, she is a broker. I would imagine that it is easy for brokers to have fairly clean conditions because they don't have to house the puppies' parents and deal with lots of litters, etc.

They only have to deal with the puppies in "inventory" that they can pay for so that somewhat limits the size of the broker's operation. Sometimes the poor puppy goes from puppymill, to broker (like the Hunte Corporation www.thehuntecorporation.com) then on to a pet store.... all before hitting 8 weeks' old.... how sad

I went to the Seattlepet site and it says they are home breeders. It implies that they are not brokers and that they breed the dogs themselves. What they say on the site sounds good ... if it is true. It says "We are not puppymills... bite your tongue!" So that part is good.... as long as it is true.

The red flag for me is there is so very little information on the site. The site also says the parents are screened for genetic diseases.... However, the health guarantee apparently is only for the day the pet is picked up... guaranteed to be healthy right then...."We guarantee health at time of purchase." It says nothing about a year or lifetime guarantee for genetic defects, which most responsible breeders offer.

 

[beachgirl]

I did get a guarentee that she would refund vet bills up to purchase price, or replace puppy if there were any problems, for 1 year. I was also give the name of the breeder and talked to her before I bought puppy as well as a few times since when I had questions about a cough she had.

I got the report from Jodi's email information this morning--


The actual breeder (no info on the broker)was inspected 3 times in the past 2 years and each report said-

No non-compliances identified this inspection.

What does that mean, that things were fine and in compliance? I guess that makes me feel better as the last inspection was just done in July and my puppy was 4 weeks at the time. The breeder told me she was USDA but I was so naive I thought that was a good thing at the time! Also she shared that the instcters come with no notice and her dogs are DNA tested....

She says she is a hobby breeder....

 

[FannyMay]

I checked out the site too and as soon as I went to the puppies section I knew it was a puppy mill. When it says "Breeds that are available on a fairly regular basis:" and there are 11 different breeds of dogs, that is a HUGE red flag. A reputable breeder will only breed one dog, maybe two so they would only have 1-2 different breeds of dogs at any given time. Also they said "fairly regular basis" witch means they have more than one bitch per breed, this is also a red flag. That's way too many bitches to have if they were a reputable breeder.
I would not recommend ANYONE to this “breeder”.
Oh and also, if they are saying “We are not puppymills…bite your tongue!” that means that they KNOW they are a puppy mill and they have been called on it and they are mad about it. Of course they are not going to say they are a puppy mill and of course they are going to say stop saying that we are.

 

[k/c mom]

Originally posted by FannyMay@Nov 23 2004, 02:53 PM
I checked out the site too and as soon as I went to the puppies section I knew it was a puppy mill.  When it says "Breeds that are available on a fairly regular basis:" and there are 11 different breeds of dogs, that is a HUGE red flag.  A reputable breeder will only breed one dog, maybe two so they would only have 1-2 different breeds of dogs at any given time.  Also they said "fairly regular basis" witch means they have more than one bitch per breed, this is also a red flag.  That's way too many bitches to have if they were a reputable breeder. 
I would not recommend ANYONE to this “breeder”. 
Oh and also, if they are saying “We are not puppymills…bite your tongue!” that means that they KNOW they are a puppy mill and they have been called on it and they are mad about it.  Of course they are not going to say they are a puppy mill and of course they are going to say stop saying that we are.
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Jodi, this is good information.... Just wondering though... is it possible that this "company" is a breeders' network/broker type of thing where one company works with lots of breeders... sort of like the Cuddlypuppy.com situation we were talking about on here. That's not to say that the breeders themselves are responsible, since a responsible breeder does not sell to a broker... but just wondering if maybe some of the breeders could be smaller operations ??

 

[FannyMay]

Yes that could be, and might be the case but I don't know because I didn't read the entire web page. But you hit the nail on the head when you said, "That's not to say that the breeders themselves are responsible, since a responsible breeder does not sell to a broker... "
So even if these are all small time breeders only breeding one breed of dog and all coming together, they are still a puppy mill because of the way they work.

 

[beachgirl]

Well for one thing, the "broker" only had maltese puppies twice in 1 year, and some dogs are not availabvle at all, I had asked her about that last spring when I first contacted her. She told me it was about 20 breeders that she worked with some don't have puppies at all during some years....I don't know, what to think, and I guess I won't send someone to her. But, it does seem good that the breeder talked to me about anything and everything I wanted the 3 times I called her, and said if I was ever in the area I could come see my pups parents (I drove 200 miles to get my pup and the breeder lives even farther away) ...of course I want to believe its all on the up and up.