[k/c mom]

Hi, Kallie had her annual check up yesterday..... full blood work and the like. Thank goodness she checked out A-OK (she is 2-1/2). While she was there, the vet and I discussed whether or not to give her the Parvo/Distemper vaccine. I am concerned about the information I've been reading about a possible relationship between the shots and immune mediated disease. (I think I have the disease name correct).

There are some authorities on the Web saying that dogs have a lifetime immunity once they have one booster vaccine; however, my vet said he has never seen any research to prove it and that is what they go by.... research. AND what is interesting is that no one is doing the research because it is hard to get it funded. Normally, drug companies fund research, but what drug company would fund a project that might prove that yearly vaccines are unnecessary?

So anyway, one option was for Kallie to have a titre. The titre tests to see how much immunity she has in her blood from her previous vaccines. They look for a number 1-5 of immunity and she did have it, so I am not going to give her the shots. However, the vet said there has been no research proving that a dog with a titer result of 1-5 would not get the disease if exposed, but it is presumed that they would not.

Even though one of the diseases, I believe Parvo, is caused by eating feces of an infected dog and mine never walk on public streets, a fly could actually transmit the disease from an infected dog to my house if it landed on my dog's food bowl, etc.

Anyway, sorry for the long post.... Just curious.... what do you all do about yearly vaccines?

 

[Guest]

The current protocol on shots is every 3 years. Booster is given at one and a half and that means no possibility of shots till 3 and a half...so..I would wonder why titres were even done..unless of course you requested them.

 

[dr.jaimie]

it depends on the type of vaccine on how long it lasts ...modified live vaccines lasts longer then killed vaccines...it also depends on your vet as to what their vaccine protocol is. some vets still booster every year, but now most vets are moving towards boostering every 3 years. for some vets it is hard for them to switch. imagine for say 20 years a vet has given vaccines annually and this is what they were "brain washed" to do, now they are told they dont have to. if i were one of these vets and wanted to convince myself, i would run a titre too.

 

[k/c mom]

Originally posted by vita@Nov 18 2004, 06:48 PM
The current protocol on shots is every 3 years. Booster is given at one and a half and that means no possibility of shots till 3 and a half...so..I would wonder why titres were even done..unless of course you requested them.
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Hi Vita, For rabies in my state the law is every three years. However, my vet just hasn't seen any hard data that indicates every three is OK for parvo and distemper. He did not push the titer. We discussed the options of (1)giving the vaccines, (2) no vaccines or (3) the titre. The titer seemed to be a good compromise.... to ease my mind, at least. I felt it was the safest choice.

If you have any informative links regarding vaccine protocol, I'd love to read more about it.... thanks!!

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by Kallie/Catchers Mom+Nov 18 2004, 08:55 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-vita

@Nov 18 2004, 06:48 PM
The current protocol on shots is every 3 years. Booster is given at one and a half and that means no possibility of shots till 3 and a half...so..I would wonder why titres were even done..unless of course you requested them.
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Hi Vita, For rabies in my state the law is every three years. However, my vet just hasn't seen any hard data that indicates every three is OK for parvo and distemper. He did not push the titer. We discussed the options of (1)giving the vaccines, (2) no vaccines or (3) the titer. The titer seemed to be a good compromise.... to ease my mind, at least. I felt it was the safest choice.

If you have any informative links regarding vaccine protocol, I'd love to read more about it.... thanks!!
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I don't have links easily available but the way I educated myself in this area was reading everything I could on the net that I could reach through search engines and that included all the medical literature that backs up this change in protocol.
The holistic vet I use also sent me information. Read all you can.

When Boris was 3 and should have gotten shots we did the titres, we did them again at 4...still well high in the range and then I said to myself..let's get real here..I wouldn't vaccinate this dog even if the titres were on the low side. Fredddy (who is a year younger) went in for his yearly and "needed shots" and I just said no...the vet, who is a sweetheart said..you probably know more about this than I do (I forwarded her a lot of info as I discovered it) and if that is your decision..so be it. Rabies is not an option..once very 3 years according to the law.

This non-vac plan is mine..I don't recommend it to anyone else.

Intuitively I "knew" pets were overvaccinated decades ago. My Peke who passed in 1986 was not vaccinated after she turned 7..she lived till almost 17..she was healthy till the end. I just had a sense that as she aged I wanted nothing in her that would compromise the immune system...

So..it sounds like you have made good decisions so far...cause the titres pushed u to NOT vaccinate. If you haven't made a decision by next year..do them again (but don't feel that they are 100% on target..if you do some reading you will see they are not)..re make your decision...based on the titres and all you have learned during the year. Once I decided NO there was no pt in giving the vet $65 to prove or disprove information that I had no intention of building my decision on.

Geez..I go on and on..but this will be an interesting thread.

 

[kodie]

i wish my vet didnt care if Kodie didnt get a shot or not... they are jerks about shots!

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by Kodie@Nov 18 2004, 10:14 PM
i wish my vet didnt care if Kodie didnt get a shot or not... they are jerks about shots!

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YOU are in charge of these decisions and if YOUR point of view on shots or any other medical care your dog gets is really on the opposite side of your vet...you are using the wrong vet for you and your DOG..Don't mean to be harsh but it is essential that you have a good communication with your vet during the "healthy" times because trust me...the decision making process is skewed when you bring your dog in with some serious health concerns. At that point you need a good open line of communication to secure the best possible care for your pet.

 

[Ladysmom]

There is some good information on over vaccinating your pets from the Animal Protection Institute:

http://www.api4animals.org/858.htm

And here also:

http://www.westielovers.com/westieworld/in...ccinations.html

Because of the possiblity of immune related problems from vaccinations, my vet and I decided not to vaccinate Lady anymore when she was diagnosed with diabetes, except for rabies every 3 years (the law here in North Carolina). We assumed most likely she had only her puppy shots before I adopted her at age 4, then she had annual shots for 2 years.

I am only vaccinating my cats every 3 years now.

As Vita said, we are in charge of our pet's welfare so we must speak up and ask questions about their care. I am fortunate that mine is a progressive area, especially with the vet school here, so my vets are up on things like the new 3 year protocol. For those who may have vets who are not, read everything you can, download articles, etc. and be prepared to discuss it (or enlighten your vet, if necessary).

 

[pico's parent]

Wow! good sites....thanks Lady'sMom. Pico had such a severe reaction with his Rabies last year that my vet said "no more vaccine for Pico". We do the intranasal Bordatella yearly but that is it.

Fortunately, we do not have Lyme in this area and Pico is rarely around other animals except to chase the cats out of our back yard or bark as dogs passing by with their owner/walkers.

I really appreciate the links as those sites gave other links so I will read, read, read until I am satisfied with my decisions regarding Pico.

 

[Elegant]

How do you know what diseases are prevalent in the area you live...I have no idea if corona is something to be concrened ablout, or lyme...help?

~Elegant

 

[k/c mom]

Originally posted by Elegant@Nov 28 2004, 12:51 AM
How do you know what diseases are prevalent in the area you live...I have no idea if corona is something to be concrened ablout, or lyme...help? 

~Elegant
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[/QUOTE]

Hi Elegant, Your vet should be able to advise you on this. He/She will have their own practice and the illnesses they see routinely to go by, as well as various journals, etc. that they likely read.

 

[Toby's Mom]

 

[kodie]

You said that boosters are given every 3 yrs???? The gave Kodie a 1yr booster and they told me they will not do a titer test on a dog that young... does this sound right??? Also.. I do not want Kodie to have any more Rabie shots because of reaction but someone on here said that NJ law says there are no exceptions here ....every dog needs a rabie shot. How can that be...what if the dog is close to death from it????!!!

 

[k/c mom]

Originally posted by Kodie@Nov 28 2004, 04:08 PM
You said that boosters are given every 3 yrs????  The gave Kodie a 1yr booster and they told me they will not do a titer test on a dog that young... does this sound right???   Also.. I do not want Kodie to have any more Rabie shots because of reaction but someone on here said that NJ law says there are no exceptions here ....every dog needs a rabie shot.  How can that be...what if the dog is close to death from it????!!!

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Boosters for Parvo, Distemper, etc. are given every year. Rabies varies by state; some are 3 years and some are 1.

I believe they don't start the titres until after the first year booster at least.

My first Maltese, Rosebud, was extremely allergic to her shots. She broke out in welts on her head and went in to anaphylactic shock when getting her one-year boosters. It was awful... I was in the car when I noticed and I rushed her back to the vet who gave her epinephrine. Not knowing any better, for the next 8 years or so I took her in for the shots. First they would give her an I.V. of benedryl and I believe something else, also. Then they'd give her the shots and we would wait there for about an hour and then I would stay with her at home all day. Even with the shots of preventative she still would get a few welts some times.

Finally when she was about 9 she developed a heart murmur and heart failure and I decided it was not worth it to put her through all this so I discontinued all shots, even rabies. The vet was afraid the shots would kill her and he agreed with my decision. I was taking a huge chance on not giving rabies. In my state, if a dog without a rabies shot bites someone they are quarantined for quite a while and under some circumstances they kill the dog, but I can't remember what those circumstances are.

So, that's about all I know about this subject! Oh, one more thing.... don't give rabies at the same time as the other shots... wait 3 weeks.

 

[jmm]

If your dog has a life-threatening reason not to get a rabies vaccine, your vet needs to contact the state vet and see whether or not they will allow it to slide. Some states will accept a rabies titer, some states will accept waiving the vaccine but you are in big doo doo if the dog bites, and other states you MUST vaccinate.

The new vaccine protocol is puppy shots, booster a year later, then every 3 years for DHPP. Rabies as required by law. Intranasal bordetella is at the discretion of you and your vet. Lyme vaccine is not really that effective. If you have a tick problem, use a product like Frontline and know the signs so you can test for tick borne disease. Letpo is typically not a big concern for a Maltese, but you can discuss with your vet if it is seen in your area and if so which strains. The vaccine doesn't cover every strain and may be totally worthless. The Giardia vaccine is not very effective either.

My boys get their rabies and that's it. I titer yearly on Mikey for entertainment mostly. Jonathan I expect will need another vaccine in a year or two. He got one when I got him at 18 months of age. I titer because one training place I use does not accept a 3 yr vaccine and Jonathan's would be out of date anyways.

 

[k/c mom]

Originally posted by JMM@Nov 28 2004, 06:42 PM
If your dog has a life-threatening reason not to get a rabies vaccine, your vet needs to contact the state vet and see whether or not they will allow it to slide. Some states will accept a rabies titer, some states will accept waiving the vaccine but you are in big doo doo if the dog bites, and other states you MUST vaccinate.

The new vaccine protocol is puppy shots, booster a year later, then every 3 years for DHPP. Rabies as required by law. Intranasal bordetella is at the discretion of you and your vet. Lyme vaccine is not really that effective. If you have a tick problem, use a product like Frontline and know the signs so you can test for tick borne disease. Letpo is typically not a big concern for a Maltese, but you can discuss with your vet if it is seen in your area and if so which strains. The vaccine doesn't cover every strain and may be totally worthless. The Giardia vaccine is not very effective either. 

My boys get their rabies and that's it. I titer yearly on Mikey for entertainment mostly. Jonathan I expect will need another vaccine in a year or two. He got one when I got him at 18 months of age. I titer because one training place I use does not accept a 3 yr vaccine and Jonathan's would be out of date anyways.
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Jackie, Rosebud is at the Rainbow Bridge so I don't have a vaccine problem right now but the vet and I were discussing another client of his who he said wanted to titre the rabies but the state of North Carolina will not accept a rabies titre. Other states, however, may.

When you say the new protocol is every three years.... is there someplace where this is published? My vet seemed not to know about this protocol when I mentioned it as I had heard this elsewhere, also.

 

[jmm]

Colorado State published it and AAHA endorses it.

http://home.gci.net/%7Edivs/disease/vaccine.html

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/vaccines-2003.html

http://www.avma.org/policies/vaccination.htm

 

[k/c mom]

Originally posted by JMM@Nov 28 2004, 08:44 PM
Colorado State published it and AAHA endorses it.

http://home.gci.net/%7Edivs/disease/vaccine.html

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/vaccines-2003.html

http://www.avma.org/policies/vaccination.htm
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Thank you sooo much, Jackie!

 

[kodie]

Originally posted by JMM@Nov 28 2004, 06:42 PM
If your dog has a life-threatening reason not to get a rabies vaccine, your vet needs to contact the state vet and see whether or not they will allow it to slide. Some states will accept a rabies titer, some states will accept waiving the vaccine but you are in big doo doo if the dog bites, and other states you MUST vaccinate.

The new vaccine protocol is puppy shots, booster a year later, then every 3 years for DHPP. Rabies as required by law. Intranasal bordetella is at the discretion of you and your vet. Lyme vaccine is not really that effective. If you have a tick problem, use a product like Frontline and know the signs so you can test for tick borne disease. Letpo is typically not a big concern for a Maltese, but you can discuss with your vet if it is seen in your area and if so which strains. The vaccine doesn't cover every strain and may be totally worthless. The Giardia vaccine is not very effective either. 

My boys get their rabies and that's it. I titer yearly on Mikey for entertainment mostly. Jonathan I expect will need another vaccine in a year or two. He got one when I got him at 18 months of age. I titer because one training place I use does not accept a 3 yr vaccine and Jonathan's would be out of date anyways.
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So.. you do not give a booster every few years either... just rabie shots? So.. what do you think in your opinion I should do with Kodie.. hes 1yr 8months...and 3.3lbs. Hes had his 1yr booster and all the puppy shots.. including his 1st rabie shot. He has not had a 1yr rabie shot. (thats the shot i refuse to give him.. because of the lump reaction..I dont think its normal for the lump to be "bone" hard and last 1yr!) One vet said they would do a biopsy on the lump if i wanted to. If it was so normal.. but would they consider doing that?

 

[jmm]

Originally posted by Kodie@Nov 29 2004, 10:37 AM
So.. you do not give a booster every few years either... just rabie shots?  So.. what do you think in your opinion I should do with Kodie.. hes 1yr 8months...and 3.3lbs.  Hes had his 1yr booster and all the puppy shots.. including his 1st rabie shot.  He has not had a 1yr rabie shot.  (thats the shot i refuse to give him.. because of the lump reaction..I dont think its normal for the lump to be "bone" hard and last 1yr!)  One vet said they would do a biopsy on the lump if i wanted to.  If it was so normal.. but would they consider doing that?
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A normal lump from a rabies vaccine is at the site of injection and goes away within 6 weeks. It did not sound like this lump was at the site and it did not go away. Without a biopsy, you are just guessing at a connection.

At this age, my dog would have gotten a 1 yr DHPP booster and 1 yr Rabies, separated by a few weeks. If he had a reaction, you should talk to your vet about pre-treating him with benadryl before his vaccine. After that I would either titer annually and vaccinate when indicated or vaccinate every 3 years. For me, the training place does not accept a 3 yr vaccine so I do the titers. On a normal, health dog, I would do the 3 yr protocol. My Mikey has auto-immune disease and we still had to do his RV by law but he doesn't get anything else and never will.

Vaccines were created for a good reason. If you watch a dog die of parvo, you'll see why. It is not pretty and the smell is something you never forget.