[michellerobison]

We took in 2 rescues a couple months ago,not house broke. It took some time and patience plus the other furries helped too. The female is doing much better I can trust her in the house now. The male,he won't make the big puddle,if he has to seriously pee pee,he lets me know. But it's the marking ,he's really getting bad.

The female rescue was spayed,all our kids are spayed,cat is neutered,so no reason for him to get excited....

We haven't gotten him fixed yet,that's next on the list. We dropped $700 the first month getting them healthy again. I'm in stage 4 kidney failure so things are tight right now. We put a belly band on him,looks awful but we had to do it until he gets fixed. Which we hope to do at tax return time.

Does's neutering stop marking? That's the big question...I have a friend who took in a rescue at 6 months,he's fixed but still marks,he's 3 years old, and they have no other dogs. He still marks so they got him a belly band..

I have to let him out after the others have pottied because he will go up and pee right on them while they're pottying.... He doesn't mind the belly band in fact he will actually wait for me to put it on him,he'll assume the position and wait,almost begging to have it on. It's like he knows if he has the belly band on,he can roam freely.
He's 5 years old,we have no plans to stud him out.

I take the band off when we go bye,bye since he doesn't mark then,plus when we feed him in the crate and of course when he's outside.. We do it to give him a break from the band. I don't want to band him his whole life,but we can't have the marking my husband won't put up w/ it....

 

[Starsmom]

In a word - "No" neutering will not stop marking. Star was neutered at 6 mo. and had the propensity to mark when he was in new places. So to make him socially acceptable he too wore a belly band.

"...we have no plans to stud him out." :shocked: I certainly hope not! You have a 5yo intact fluff that probably had an irresponsible owner that was going to breed him for the money. Don't become part of the over population problem by becoming a BYB'er (backyard breeder). Get the boy neutered.

BTW, how can you have rescues that aren't already altered?

 

[jmm]

Marking is a housetraining transgression and strict house training protocols are the solution (age and being intact don't matter). If he's marking in the house, it is your fault for not restricting him and supervising him.
Once a dog gets in the habit, neutering is not typically a solution. Training is.
If you don't care to train him, a belly band is a band aid. It prevents the pee from getting on surfaces in your house, but it does not teach the dog not to mark.

 

[michellerobison]

QUOTE (Starsmom @ Dec 21 2009, 01:46 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=865260

In a word - "No" neutering will not stop marking. Star was neutered at 6 mo. and had the propensity to mark when he was in new places. So to make him socially acceptable he too wore a belly band.

"...we have no plans to stud him out." :shocked: I certainly hope not! You have a 5yo intact fluff that probably had an irresponsible owner that was going to breed him for the money. Don't become part of the over population problem by becoming a BYB'er (backyard breeder). Get the boy neutered.

BTW, how can you have rescues that aren't already altered?


[/B]

I rescued him from the breeder who'd passed them to other relatives who passed them onto other relatives,then they were on their way to a shelter and I took them in. The shelter they were going to take them to was full and they were told they had to euthanize to make room fo rthem,so she called me to ask if I'd take them in.I call them rescues but I guess that's not the correct term if they didn't come from a rescue organization. I call them rescues since I rescued them from teh shlter and their neglected home...
The breeder had used him for stud, since he's such a small size, but I don't want to do that. When we bought our girls from her,we spayed them as soon as they were old enough. We don't breed any of our dogs because that should be left to professionals who know what they're doing. We just keep them as cherished family members.

 

[michellerobison]

QUOTE (JMM @ Dec 21 2009, 01:53 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=865262

Marking is a housetraining transgression and strict house training protocols are the solution (age and being intact don't matter). If he's marking in the house, it is your fault for not restricting him and supervising him.
Once a dog gets in the habit, neutering is not typically a solution. Training is.
If you don't care to train him, a belly band is a band aid. It prevents the pee from getting on surfaces in your house, but it does not teach the dog not to mark.[/B]

I'm not sure what to do to retrain him. We've had males in the house ,cocker spaniels, before and no marking issues since we trained them as pups and got them neutered. We spay and neuter all out pets since it's healthier for them,we only had one unaltered dog,who had a really bad reaction to aenesthtic and the vet recommended never putting him under again. He didn't mark in the house but he would outside..


We got Rylee at 5 years old ,the former owners kept him in the shower ,on pee pads,the next owners kept him in the garage so he would pee all over and they didn't care to train him. The next set of owners kept him in a heated barn w/ their horses.Is it possible to break 5 years of neglected behaviour?
We've taken other adult dogs in from the shelter and didn't have this much trouble w/ housebreaking but we've only take in adult females.

I started out keeping him in the crate and letting him out only to potty but I feel bad doing that since he cries in the crate. He will sit on my lap for quite a while when I'm working. We restricted both to the kitchen until housebroke.

I keep him in the kitchen easier to clean up his marks. He lets me know when he has to potty and pee. He won't make a pee in the house but he leaves the tiniest little tinkle pees on chair legs ,sometimes they're hard to find. He knows when he's done wrong when he marks and I find it,he hangs his head down so he knows. I don't spank or yell at him because it might make him timid.

I can't watch him constantly but I take them out every 2 hours. He will come in from outside after peeing and immediately mark something in the house.
So I don't feel like I'm not taking the time to train him. I'm certainly taking more time than any of the owners have.


I'd like to have some helpful suggestions from someone who's been through taking in adult males,not chastizing...

 

[MandyMc65]

QUOTE (michellerobison @ Dec 21 2009, 11:57 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=865284

I keep him in the kitchen easier to clean up his marks. He lets me know when he has to potty and pee. He won't make a pee in the house but he leaves the tiniest little tinkle pees on chair legs ,sometimes they're hard to find. He knows when he's done wrong when he marks and I find it,he hangs his head down so he knows. I don't spank or yell at him because it might make him timid.

I can't watch him constantly but I take them out every 2 hours. He will come in from outside after peeing and immediately mark something in the house.
So I don't feel like I'm not taking the time to train him. I'm certainly taking more time than any of the owners have.


I'd like to have some helpful suggestions from someone who's been through taking in adult males,not chastizing...[/B]

No one is chastising you, simply stating that it is a training issue and the belly band is not going to teach him what is correct. He doesn't "know" he's done anything wrong - dogs don't feel guilt. It is your body language, even if you aren't meaning to.

If you aren't watching him, he needs to be confined - just like with a puppy. Confined can be in a crate, an xpen with very little room, whatever will contain him so he won't mark/pee.

It may take longer to break him of marking since he's older, but it's possible. You'll need to take him out and praise him, give him treats, throw him a party for going immediately, not after he comes inside. He needs to know that going potty outside is WHY he's being rewarded. If he has gone then he can run around while you can actively watch him.

If you catch him marking interrupt ("Ah ah" usually works) and take him outside. If he doesn't go, then back inside and confined.

It will take time, patience and consistency.

If you want to read some prior threads about housebreaking.. This one is a pinned thread that has a few links to posts JMM wrote. Same rules apply for marking as house breaking in general.

 

[michellerobison]

Sorry to sound cranky, I do PD, peritoneal dialysis,at home, 3 times per day so it's hard to always watch him and catch him in the act. That's why I don't want to crate him all the time. I adjusted my PD schedule to twice per day or at once night but it takes longer and the cycler keeps me awake so I can let him out more .

He's a good boy,he lays on my lap while I'm hooked up to the cycler. Usually all the puppies will lay on the bed w/ me while I PD. They all keep me company. Plus I have my laptop so I can get into mischief on Ebay.... and check in on Spoiled Maltese.
I do want to get him trained so it'll be easier on me and my husband,he's got enough to deal with. I want Rylee to be happier too.

I don't know what I'd do w/o my foofer fluffs.

 

[michellerobison]

I love on him,pet him and tell him good boy then he pottys or pees outside,I'll have to remember the treats when I go outside,didn't think of that. Should I take him out more than the others?

 

[jmm]

Mandy has it right.

I'll elaborate on the "guilt" bit. Dogs surely had an emotional life. However, it is a common mistake for people to anthropomorphize in an unproductive manner.

When your dog urinates inappropriately (forget calling it marking, he is PEEING in the house PERIOD), it is a self-rewarding behavior. That means each time he does it, it makes him feel good. Your dog has a 5 year history of being rewarded for that behavior. It doesn't magically change on its own without work on your part. I have worked successfully with shelter dogs older than yours to a point they are reliable when the owner is home. Yes, it absolutely can be done. However, your "I can't watch my dog" attitude won't get you very far.

When you discover a spot and your dog appears guilty, your dog is actually responding to your body language. If you went into the room and were excited and happy, I guarantee your dog would not look guilty. Your dog does not know peeing in the house if you are not watching is wrong.

You must be actively supervising your dog or your dog should be confined to an area he will not mark in (crate, pen, bathroom). Leashing your dog to you will help prevent the wandering off. In order to break a self-rewarding habit, YOU MUST PREVENT IT FROM HAPPENING.

You interrupt ("eh eh" or something along those lines) and redirect the behavior you do not want. You praise and reward the behavior you do want (food rewards for going potty outside immediate to the behavior, give your dog a safe place outside to mark and praise for it).

 

[jmm]

Yes, take him out often and reward (with tasty food). You are fighting against a habit with a long reward pattern. You have to make what you want even more rewarding. The more repetitions, the more likely that behavior is to repeat.

 

[michellerobison]

QUOTE (JMM @ Dec 21 2009, 03:42 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=865294

Yes, take him out often and reward (with tasty food). You are fighting against a habit with a long reward pattern. You have to make what you want even more rewarding. The more repetitions, the more likely that behavior is to repeat.[/B]

I was keeping him in the kitchen when I couldn't watch him,he'd usually sleep on a big pillow w/ a couple of the kids. I don't let him out of my site when I let them out of the kitchen. He marks in the kitchen when I wasn't watchng....

Now I'm putting him in the crate and I let him out every 30 minutes ,he pees each time. Outside,I take the treats for him. I take him alone too hoping he'll concentrate. I always use a leash,we have coyotes so I never let them off leash at dusk or at night. I will let them off in the daytime to play w/ the cat or play fetch, but not to let them roam around,even though we have 2 acres. Then it's back in the house for a little love and play time then back in the crate for Rylee since we're getting things around for the holidays and I can't keep a close eye on him right now.

I do let them all on the couch when I'm hooked on the cycler ,they roll on the couch ,get silly then settle in for a nap,watching TV or on the lap top,until the cycle is done. He's on my lap right now sleeping...

Bitsy was easy to housebreak,took her a couple weeks of crating and confining to the kitchen but she kinda settled into the other girls' schedule.

They all pretty much follow me everywhere when they're out of the kitchen,usually they sit w/ me on the couch while I'm on the computer or they all go into my studio when I work on jewellery or tiles. The studio has 5 large rooms so I keep them in one room at a time,the room I happen to be working in at the time.I have blankets and pillows near my work bench and sette next to my work chair . Sometimes they all pile on the sette while I'm working or they'll lay on the pillows,depends on how much I have to get up and down from the work bench to different work stations. Usually they take turns one on my lap,one at the back of my chair warming my bum,the rest on the sette next to me.

I don't leave them in the house while I work in studio,mostly since I get lonely w/o them. I take breaks and give them all kissies and a big sniff and a hug. Usually they're the ones who initiate break time ,they come up and want lovins. And who can resist a Malt giving you "the face"?

I just got spoiled since our girls came to us as tiny pups and were pretty easy to crate to housebreak,they let us know when they had to potty,plus they had another dog to show them the ropes...

 

[michellerobison]

I ditched the belly band for now and leaving him in the crate and taking him out more requently and treats right after he pees,before we go inside.

Before, I took him out every 2 hours and had the belly band on between,so he could be out of the crate.
He's in the crate when I can't watch him. I hope it works,I hate doing that to him. I feel bad when the others can roam the house freely... But the others don't pee in the house. They pretty much follow me everywhere so it's easy to watch them. They only hide when I vacuum....