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Discussion Starter #21 (Edited)
I live in Ireland, which is known as the puppy mill capital of Europe. We have so many here and I see how they present themselves online. It is like the above post from that doodle breeder. They say so much about health guarantees, testing etc. but it's all just a front as people don't know any better. I am not saying that the breeder you mentioned is lying about health testing, but the majority of buyers will never ask for proof.
This post was from a private breeder's group as a response to someone who wants to get into breeding if it wasn't clear. Telling them all it entails to do it right. Not a public pitch to people potentially buying a puppy in case it's not clear.
 

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Lol. So much wrong with this post. But here's just one thing: SO MANY breeders are breeding right now, including top of line Maltese breeders like CHRISMAN Maltese and Judy Pondo and top golden retriever breeders I know as well. When you live on a large farm with tons of animals and 4-5 longtime family dogs as pets, you can properly socialize puppies. Plenty of breeders are keeping up with puppy culture, early neurological stimulation, and all of the cutting edge techniques to give pups the best starts. It's not like large numbers of strange humans are parading through to visit puppies during normal time because of parvo concerns. I really think you are speaking from a place of ignorance. I'll leave it at that...
You're completely misrepresenting what I said and twisting it.

I did say that I thought no breeder should be breeding right now - including pure bred.

I said socialisation when the puppy gets to the new owner. If I had a puppy I'd want to be bringing it everywhere to make sure it was well adjusted and used to people and animals - you can't do that if you're social distancing in public.

And yes, I know that breeder was not pitching a sale in the facebook post, I was referring to their website :)
 

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Be nice.....words matter! We're all family here.

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Discussion Starter #24
I can appreciate that. But puppy socialization is possible while still masking and staying 6 feet from strange humans. Puppy socialization classes are still happening. Doggie daycare is still happening. Home Depot and Loew's and Petco still let dogs in. Many people let strangers touch their dogs and pet and such on walks. I agree with you that the pandemic brings challenges for socialization, but I think it can certainly be done and know a number of puppies right now who are doing beautifully. As to your other point, many doodle and other designer dog breeders do not want to develop their own lines. Some do and focus on multigens and there are some clubs with longterm goals of standardization and developing into a new breed. But some breeders focus on F1 crosses. They claim hybrid vigor, and I think there is some good evidence of that, especially with certain breeds. But, really, I think it's just easier. It's a lot easier to breed that way than worry about consistency of coat and bringing out certain temperament traits, etc...I fully agree there. But that doesn't mean they are bad breeders or the dogs can't be healthy and socialized.

I really don't want to be harsh as I know you have a doodle, but the above breeder has so many red flags. I think it's a puppy mill.

The vast majority of their sires and dams are purebred goldens and poodles. They've been breeding for 18 years - why have they not developed their own line? Isn't that what doodle breeders claim they're doing - developing a breed? You need to go further than just constantly buying purebred dogs and crossing them.

They have several planned litters in the coming months. Any breeder (purebred included) shouldn't be breeding right now. It's not safe for new owners to properly socialise a puppy due to Covid and social distancing.

If you want to meet the breeder and dams you have to go to a "second facility". How many dogs do they have that they had to get a second property for them?

They have three upcoming litters mentioned yet only one of the dams named is on their "our dogs" page. They have a lot more dogs than they portray.

The worst thing of all - they have the facility to submit a very large deposit for a puppy on their website using Paypal and other pay methods. Do they not want to at the very least speak to a potential owner over email or phone before taking their money? They don't appear to want to know even one detail about the person buying one of their puppies.
No, not every breeder wants to d
You're completely misrepresenting what I said and twisting it.

I did say that I thought no breeder should be breeding right now - including pure bred.

I said socialisation when the puppy gets to the new owner. If I had a puppy I'd want to be bringing it everywhere to make sure it was well adjusted and used to people and animals - you can't do that if you're social distancing in public.

And yes, I know that breeder was not pitching a sale in the facebook post, I was referring to their website :)
 

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I'm going to leave this thread.

I pointed out several huge red flags that I found within minutes on the website of the breeder you posted as an example of a good doodle breeder. They really do appear to be a puppy mill, but I can see from your response in calling me ignorant that you don't want to accept that what I said are in fact very worrying details.

I think it's difficult to find a very good breeder of any breed, but they are out there. I've come across show breeders that I would NEVER buy a dog from and non-show breeders who do health test, have a very small number of dogs (less than 5), raise their puppies amazingly and only accept the best homes for them.
 

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I'm going to leave this thread.

I pointed out several huge red flags that I found within minutes on the website of the breeder you posted as an example of a good doodle breeder. They really do appear to be a puppy mill, but I can see from your response in calling me ignorant that you don't want to accept that what I said are in fact very worrying details.

I think it's difficult to find a very good breeder of any breed, but they are out there. I've come across show breeders that I would NEVER buy a dog from and non-show breeders who do health test, have a very small number of dogs (less than 5), raise their puppies amazingly and only accept the best homes for them.
During my long search for a maltese breeder - I also found that some top notch breeders get "worn-out" and loose their love of the breed - and it turns into a business. One was once a top notch maltese shower at Westminster and knows her stuff. Sadly, the love of the breed wasn't there any longer. Time to retire!
 
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Discussion Starter #27
During my long search for a maltese breeder - I also found that some top notch breeders get "worn-out" and loose their love of the breed - and it turns into a business. One was once a top notch maltese shower at Westminster and knows her stuff. Sadly, the love of the breed wasn't there any longer. Time to retire!
Agree with all this!
 

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During my long search for a maltese breeder - I also found that some top notch breeders get "worn-out" and loose their love of the breed - and it turns into a business. One was once a top notch maltese shower at Westminster and knows her stuff. Sadly, the love of the breed wasn't there any longer. Time to retire!
Yes! There is so much more than just showing dogs to be a reputable breeder. It's not enough to breed pretty dogs if they're stuck in cages all their life and not socialised. I've seen awful things from show breeders and awful things from puppy mills.
 
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