Maltese Dogs Forum : Spoiled Maltese Forums banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
478 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi! My friend has recently been blessed with a new addition to his house. He has a CKC registered Maltese.

Knowing that I have two AKC registered Maltese, he called me up wanting to know if I'd be interested in breeding. I immediately replied no!

But I did ask him if his maltbaby was registered with AKC, he said no, but that he is registered with CKC.

He asked me what the difference is. I don't know because I'm not familiar with CKC other than just hearing of it.

Does CKC & AKC registrations honor one another, or must each be registered with just one when breeding? Can CKC be registered AKC or vice versa?

I have printed out recommendations on breeding that I've found on this website and info that you fine folks have provided me, and shared it with him. Unfortunately (sp) he doesn't have internet access (at home) and can't join this website unless uses a shared computer which would probably require him to go to the library.

All your input will be greatly appreciated!!! Thank you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,659 Posts
Is the puppy registered with the Canadian Kennel Club or the Continental Kennel Club? Both use the abbreviation "CKC". The Canadian Kennel Club is very reputable, like our AKC here in the US. The Continental Kennel Club has only been in existence since 1991 and is one of the most well known puppy mill registries.

Pedigrees may be falsified and if registration papers are supplied, they are typically through various organizations formed by puppy millers when the AKC's DNA requirements and inspection process (of kennels and records) made it impossible for them to continue registering their dogs with the AKC. Some of these "puppy mill registeries" include: APR (American Purebred Registry), APRI (America's Pet Registry, Inc.), CKC (Continental Kennel Club), UKC (Universal Kennel Club), ACA (American Canine Association). You should note that these registeries often have the same acronym as LEGITIMATE registeries such as the Canadian Kennel Club (CKC) and the United Kennel Club (UKC).

The CKC even registers "designer" dog like Labradoodles!

Good for you for saying "no" to yor friend's suggestion of breeding your dogs. His puppy is probably a ticking time bomb full of genetic problems and should not be bred under any circumstances.

Here are a couple of links to more information about puppy mill dogs. Hopefully you can convince him to get his dog neutered.

http://prisonersofgreed.org
http://www.nopuppymills.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,004 Posts
Hi LadysMom,

I live in canada. As you stated above the Canadian Kennel Club is were they recieve the registation papers here. How do you know if they use the fake abbreviation CKC"Continental Kennel Club ?
I'm only asking this question, because I was not aware of the Continental Kennel Club is there any other way of knowing beside contacting Canadian Kennel Club.

Thanks

What I did was send a email to Canadian Kennel Club asking if the breeder I selected was registed with them. Even though my vet recomeded her I had to make sure. The breeder also mentioned to me that she won lots of ribons for showing her dogs. and had them produly displayed. She also mentioned that her maltese had one Best in Breed that month... so I got serching on the internet... and I did find prof of it.

By the way the Canadian Kennel Club will only tell you if they are registed with them but will not suggest breeders.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,659 Posts
Sounds like you've found a great breeder....recommended by your vet, registers her dogs with the Canadian Kennel Club, shows her dogs, Best of Breed, etc..

When will you be getting your puppy?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,515 Posts
Originally posted by LadysMom@Feb 11 2005, 08:56 AM
Good for you for saying "no" to yor friend's suggestion of breeding your dogs. His puppy is probably a ticking time bomb full of genetic problems and should not be bred under any circumstances.
I can agree somewhat but Sampson and Maggie are both CKC registered, thats the Continental Kennel Club version, neither one has a single genetic problem, nor a single health problem for the matter of fact, I may be in the minority here but I know of just as many genetic and health problems with AKC registered dogs

it comes down to research, neither of my dogs came from puppy mills or pet stores but they are unfortunately "grouped" there because they are not AKC registered, I recommend educating yourself with the history of each dog, the lines they come from, the family they were raised in and your gut feeling to some degree, AKC is a standard, not all AKC registered dogs even come close to those standards

Hopefully you can convince him to get his dog neutered.[/B]
this is really one of the most un-educated responses i have ever read, i dont mean that bad, AKC, CKC, ABC, CDF, XYZ, etc., consult with a vet, consult with other breeders, consult with others owners but never discount a maltese or any other breed because of a designation

The CKC even registers "designer" dog like Labradoodles![/B]
sure they do, i dont endorse it by any means but research some, if you go back to the begining of time alot of AKC dogs are the work of more than one breed, every breed of dog hasnt always existed

How do you know if they use the fake abbreviation CKC"Continental Kennel Club ?[/B]
CKC isnt a "fake" abbreviation, its a club with alot of good points, maybe not all good but it shouldnt be freely discounted, there is bias for good and bad reasons

________________________________________________________

I guess I am passionate on many levels, I say educate yourself, about the breed, the breeder, the history/lines and more, but never discount a Maltese for any reason

this all is just my opinion as always
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
21,482 Posts
Originally posted by Joe@Feb 11 2005, 11:05 PM
I can agree somewhat but Sampson and Maggie are both CKC registered, thats the Continental Kennel Club version, neither one has a single genetic problem, nor a single health problem for the matter of fact, I may be in the minority here but I know of just as many genetic and health problems with AKC registered dogs
Joe, I think the poster meant that the genetic problems don't always show up until the dog is maybe 5 or 6 years old.

Just curious....do you or anyone else know why a dog would be CKC registered instead of AKC?

Here is a bit of info on registries from the nopuppymill web site:

http://www.kimtownsend.com/pmregistries.html


"Dog Registries

When buying a purebred dog, one of the first things people ask is "Is he registered?" Instead, they should be asking "What does registered mean?"

What does "register" mean? According the the American Heritage Dictionary, as it pertains to dogs it means:

reg·is·tered (rj-strd) adj.

2. Having the pedigree recorded and verified by an authorized association of breeders: a registered golden retriever.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

At one time, being registered normally meant a dog was registered with the American Kennel Club or the United Kennel Club but all of that changed with the discovery of DNA. In the summer of 2000, AKC began its mandatory requirement that all sires (used frequently) have a DNA sample on file with the AKC. Read more about AKC's DNA program

AKC had long required breeders to undergo compliance inspections and had suspended thousands of breeders for failing to abide by AKC's rules and regulations. Both AKC and UKC suspended those convicted of cruelty to animals. These suspensions did not stop breeders from breeding, it simply forced them to use the lesser known registries designed primarily on a "no questions asked" theory.

But DNA? That was a whole different ball of fur! The commercial breeders were outraged, and in Feb. 2000 the largest commercial dog breeding organization in the country voted to boycott the AKC.

And boycott they did! When it was discovered that the buying public didn't know and/or care what registry a puppy was registered with (they only wanted "registered" puppies), the barn door swung open and out poured dozens of new dog registries.

Below is a list of known registries. Take the time to visit each registry. Most require very little information or proof of identity in order to register a dog.

(information below updated 6/17/04)

AKC AMERICAN KENNEL CLUB
UKC UNITED KENNEL CLUB
CKC** CONTINENTAL KENNEL CLUB
**NOTE: Do not confuse this registry with the Canadian Kennel Club (also known as CKC). The Canadian Kennel Club is the equivalent of the AKC or UKC in America and is very respected in Canada.

APRI AMERICA'S PET REGISTRY INC.
ACA AMERICAN CANINE ASSOCIATION
UKCI UNIVERSAL KENNEL CLUB INTERNATIONAL
NAPDR NORTH AMERICAN PUREBRED DOG REGISTRY
DRA DOG REGISTRY OF AMERICA
APR AMERICAN PUREBRED REGISTRY
WWKC WORLD WIDE KENNEL CLUB
WKC WORLD KENNEL CLUB
FIC FEDERATION OF INTERNATIONAL CANINES
ARU ANIMAL REGISTRY UNLIMITED
UABR UNITED ALL BREED REGISTRY
CRCS CANINE REGISTRATION AND CERTIFICATION SERVICES
NPR NATIONAL KENNEL CLUB <span style="color:red">"

</span>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,008 Posts
Registries just dont mean very much to me, although this is coming from a girl who has a very nonstandard maltese, i just think its to easy for dogs to get into them. I am not totally sure exactly what the qualifications are to get a puppy registered with the akc but as far as i know it just has to have akc parents, or at least the breeder says the parents are. Not trying to discredit the akc or any registrie they have their purpose but i just dont think having a registered dog means very much. Unless they want to send someone out to check every dog in the registrie and make sure it is a a decent representation of the breed (which is a totally unrealalistic idea that will never happen) a dog being registered isnt gonna mean all that much as far as i am concerned.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,483 Posts
I have encountered many problems with Cloud and he's AKC. Noriko is CKC and I have yet to find any issues with her *knock on wood.* Well, except for the annoying fact that she just loves to just sleep on top of me and it freakin pisses me off when I wake up because of her when I need to sleep and only have 6 hrs of sleep and she wakes my butt up when I have school the next morning! Is that a CKC thing? LOL jk. Otherwise, she's a sweetie.

I really dont care for registration because I had them both fixed. Obviously, being AKC doesnt mean that they're better than a dog that's CKC. This is my case. But, I really don't know that much about registry. Oh well. I'm too busy praying that they will live long, healthy, and happy. I'm sure all of you guys think that too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,659 Posts
Here are a couple of interesting articles on registries:

http://www.dfwdachshund.com/rescue/registries.shtml

CKC & APR

Today's "In" Registries For Puppy Millers

The American Kennel Club has developed some new rules aimed at deflecting some of the criticism they've received for supporting puppy millers by registering the offspring. AKC dogs must be micro-chipped before they can be sold at auction. AKC requires DNA specimens on prolific males. AKC inspectors have pulled dogs from auctions for not meeting these conditions. Why are they doing this? Because of rampant fraud and deceit committed by disreputable breeders who are destroying the sport of the purebred dog. No, these measures are not sufficient. But they are a beginning.

The Continental Kennel Club

The response of puppy millers is to seek out alternative registries. One of these is the Continental Kennel Club. The requirements for registering a dog with the Continental Kennel Club are not nearly so stringent. In fact, you need only tell them your dog is purebred - they'll take your word for it. If you prefer, you may even register on-line. They offer many services: Standard Registration ($8.00), Standard Registration Plus Pedigree ($23.00), Color Photo Registration ($16.00), Color Photo Registration With Pedigree ($31.00), or the creme de la creme, Color Photo Registration And Photo Pedigree ($41.00). What A Deal! And none of those annoying identification requirements to contend with. Nope, all it takes is a credit card. Another attraction: They do NOT require litter registration.

The Continental Kennel Club also offers, but does not require, DNA testing/certification and micro-chipping.

Bottom line: When you buy a puppy registered with the Continental Kennel Club, as with any registry, you are relying on the breeder's integrity.

The American Purebred Registry
The American Purebred Registry was founded in 1979 to assist folks with "Lost registration papers". To register a pup or dog with them, they require that you submit the usual information, i.e., name, sex, breed, color, B/D, etc., then sign an application attesting to the validity of information provided. Again, all pertinent information is provided by the owner or breeder of the dog. In their own words, "When an application is received by our office and accepted, we issue a registration certificate. From that moment on the animal is considered a registered animal."

Cost: $10.00, check or money order.

Be aware, a dog's registration is no guarantee of pure breeding, health, or anything else.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
21,482 Posts
Originally posted by LadysMom@Feb 15 2005, 08:17 AM
Here are a couple of interesting articles on registries:

http://www.dfwdachshund.com/rescue/registries.shtml

CKC & APR

Today's "In" Registries For Puppy Millers

The American Kennel Club has developed some new rules aimed at deflecting some of the criticism they've received for supporting puppy millers by registering the offspring. AKC dogs must be micro-chipped before they can be sold at auction. AKC requires DNA specimens on prolific males. AKC inspectors have pulled dogs from auctions for not meeting these conditions. Why are they doing this? Because of rampant fraud and deceit committed by disreputable breeders who are destroying the sport of the purebred dog. No, these measures are not sufficient. But they are a beginning.

The Continental Kennel Club 

The response of puppy millers is to seek out alternative registries. One of these is the Continental Kennel Club. The requirements for registering a dog with the Continental Kennel Club are not nearly so stringent. In fact, you need only tell them your dog is purebred - they'll take your word for it. If you prefer, you may even register on-line. They offer many services: Standard Registration ($8.00), Standard Registration Plus Pedigree ($23.00), Color Photo Registration ($16.00), Color Photo Registration With Pedigree ($31.00), or the creme de la creme, Color Photo Registration And Photo Pedigree ($41.00). What A Deal! And none of those annoying identification requirements to contend with. Nope, all it takes is a credit card. Another attraction: They do NOT require litter registration.

The Continental Kennel Club also offers, but does not require, DNA testing/certification and micro-chipping.

Bottom line: When you buy a puppy registered with the Continental Kennel Club, as with any registry, you are relying on the breeder's integrity.

The American Purebred Registry
The American Purebred Registry was founded in 1979 to assist folks with "Lost registration papers". To register a pup or dog with them, they require that you submit the usual information, i.e., name, sex, breed, color, B/D, etc., then sign an application attesting to the validity of information provided.  Again, all pertinent information is provided by the owner or breeder of the dog. In their own words, "When an application is received by our office and accepted, we issue a registration certificate. From that moment on the animal is considered a registered animal."

Cost: $10.00, check or money order.

Be aware, a dog's registration  is no guarantee of pure breeding, health, or anything else.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=35492
[/QUOTE]

Reading all this makes me chuckle... sort of reminds of diploma mills.... for the right fee, you can get a certificate attesting to just about anything... and it usually is not worth the paper it is printed on......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
447 Posts
Well I think that regardless if your dog is AKC, CKC, AGA, UKC, LMNOP you should do research on your BREEDER.

There are LOTS of mixed breed puppies being sold with purebred AKC papers, some of these reports are very biased. Lots of Bichon/Malts out there being sold for a couple grand with AKC American Kennel Club registration.

Lots of "luxury puppy mills" out there bearing the AKC registration as well. Lets not forget about those "High Quality, HIgh Profit" breeders who have over 300 sick and whimpering malts in the back of their big old mansion

Just do your homework.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,659 Posts
Well said.

While the AKC may be the best registry, an AKC registered puppy by no means is guarenteed to be healthy or even purebred.

Doing your homework on the breeder is still the only way you will find out what you are really buying.

Just like with buying real estate or a used car, CAVEAT EMPTOR(let the buyer beware)!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,615 Posts
I would love to see our prosecutors go after false registries as fraud. I agree that there are a lot of bichon/maltese mixes popping up. Same with minipoodle/malt mixes. Does anyone know, does dog DNA testing cover "breed" markers or does it generally just look at genetic defects?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,659 Posts
Originally posted by saltymalty@Feb 16 2005, 09:49 AM
I would love to see our prosecutors go after false registries as fraud.  I agree that there are a lot of bichon/maltese mixes popping up.  Same with minipoodle/malt mixes.  Does anyone know, does dog DNA testing cover "breed" markers or does it generally just look at genetic defects?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=35827
[/QUOTE]

This is from the AKC website:

ThEnhanced DNA Certification Test
[Friday, June 13, 2003]
The AKC is pleased to announce that an enhanced DNA Certification Test will become available August, 2003. This test is offered in collaboration with MMI Genomics (MMIG), the AKC�s principal service provider of DNA testing. MMIG, an established leader in genomic technologies, has developed and validated a new, more advanced DNA marker system for canine testing.
The AKC DNA Certification test will now profile 14 genetic markers compared to the 10 markers previously reported on AKC DNA Certificates, producing a profile called the �SuperPlex-G.� Thirteen of the genetic markers on the panel, including three new markers are a common type of inherited DNA markers -- called STRs --used in identification and parentage testing across all breeds. The fourth new marker is a canine gender marker. It tests for a gene on the sex chromosome, and will therefore differentiate between male and female. It will allow for gender to be verified via the test results.

The new markers will not only provide additional information with every DNA profile, but will allow for enhanced quality control. The development and validation of these additional markers took nearly a year and a half to complete and used the human genome and other DNA-sequence information to discover the corresponding canine- specific genes on the X and Y sex chromosomes. There is no additional cost or fee increase for this new AKC DNA profile. The price of a prepaid DNA Kit will remain $35, and the processing fee for a regular DNA kit will remain $40.

This new enhanced DNA profile is fully compatible with the existing profiles maintained in the AKC�s DNA database because the same original 10 DNA markers used in the current AKC certificate will be included in the new SuperPlex-G panel. Those who wish to upgrade their existing 10-marker certificate with the new SuperPlex-G panel may do so for a fee without submitting a new DNA sample. Simply submit your upgrade request to AKC DNA Operations using this downloadable form.


The American Kennel Club through its DNA Program offers highly accurate and informative DNA testing services through DNA Certification. It is a powerful tool in ensuring reliable registration records. Tests are routinely used for individual identification, parentage testing and certification of pedigree records.

The AKC currently has a canine DNA database of over 250,000 DNA profiles, the largest of its kind in the world. For more information contact [email protected] or call 919-816-3508.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top