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Discussion Starter #1
I went in and they had 4 puppies, no malteses. I went over and looked at the puppies. I asked the guy where they got them from. He told me from breeders about 2 1/2 hrs. away. I quesstioned him about puppymills. He told me no just breeders. He even started talking about puppies sold on the internet. He sounded sincere, but who knows. What do guys think???? Do you think he's sincere or is it possibly puppymills. I hope its not!!!!

Peechie's Mom - Karen
 

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its really hard to tell anymore, most of the big box stores will get from puppy mills no matter what they tell you, some of the more "local" stores will buy from breeders but at the same time most legit breeders wont sell to any store, its a vicious cycle that leaves puppies needing homes no matter where they come from and alot of good hearted people who cant stand to see them in cages, no matter their health, where they came from or how educated the person is, which drives demand for puppy mills to produce more and thus eventually some "local" stores end up persuing puppymills to fill their demand, its crazy it really is, so the store close to you may be telling the truth now but who knows in the future ? ? ?

we have a local store here that just started carrying puppies, I usually shop there even though the prices are more because they are close, knowledgable, friendly and they DIDNT sell dogs or cats, now they do
but I asked and they assured me that they were from breeders or licensed/inspected kennels, they will show you shot records with vet contact, the puppy room is staffed bt 2 full time people, one cleans, one plays with the puppy who's cage is being cleaned and helps customers, the cages are big, they have seperate "interview" areas, it air conditioned/heated and you have to qualify to buy the puppy, i didnt get that far into it with them though, it gave me a good impression but i still have to wonder what goes on on the backend?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Originally posted by Joe@Jul 25 2005, 01:27 PM
its really hard to tell anymore, most of the big box stores will get from puppy mills no matter what they tell you, some of the more "local" stores will buy from breeders but at the same time most legit breeders wont sell to any store, its a vicious cycle that leaves puppies needing homes no matter where they come from and alot of good hearted people who cant stand to see them in cages, no matter their health, where they came from or how educated the person is, which drives demand for puppy mills to produce more and thus eventually some "local" stores end up persuing puppymills to fill their demand, its crazy it really is, so the store close to you may be telling the truth now but who knows in the future ? ? ?

we have a local store here that just started carrying puppies, I usually shop there even though the prices are more because they are close, knowledgable, friendly and they DIDNT sell dogs or cats, now they do 
but I asked and they assured me that they were from breeders or licensed/inspected kennels, they will show you shot records with vet contact, the puppy room is staffed bt 2 full time people, one cleans, one plays with the puppy who's cage is being cleaned and helps customers, the cages are big, they have seperate "interview" areas, it air conditioned/heated and you have to qualify to buy the puppy, i didnt get that far into it with them though, it gave me a good impression but i still have to wonder what goes on on the backend?
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Thanks Joe. I just hope he's sincere. It was a very clean store. They seemed to take good care of the puppies. He just seemed to have quick anwers for my questions. I quess they are used to questions about puppymills.

Peechie's Mom - Karen
 

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Reputable breeders do not sell to pet stores. If he is a small store he may be buying from a BYB. Petland says they don't buy from puppymills... and technically that is true. They buy from The Hunte Corporation, the nation's largest puppy broker, which buys from puppymills!

No matter where the puppies came from, a pet store environment is no place for a puppy to be.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I just find it bizarre the breeders are 2 1/2 miles away. That sounds like a cover up to me. The guy at the store seemed like a nice guy, yeah sure!!! Thanks for your info.

Peechie's Mom - Karen
 

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Why Prospective Puppy Owners and Dog Owners In General Should Avoid Patronizing Pet Stores That Sell Puppies



Unfortunately, many people in search of a companion dog for their families will wind up acquiring a puppy from a pet store. These newcomers to the dog world may not know that by doing so, they are inadvertently providing an outlet for puppy mills (please refer to this NBC Dateline Report for specific information on puppy mills and the Hearts United for Animals article "What is a Puppy Mill?"). However, although many current dog owners are aware of the atrocities associated with puppy mills and openly abhor the thought of purchasing a puppy from a pet store for this primary reason, these same dog owners may also be indirectly supporting puppy mills by patronizing these same pet stores for purchase of dog food or supplies.

Pet specialty stores that sell puppies ( a.k.a. "commercial pet retailers) are a serious concern because they provide a major outlet for these puppy mills: a source of dog abuse, irresponsible breeding practices, the dog overpopulation crisis, and pet homelessness. Additionally, these businesses provide a poor source for pet purchase for the following reasons:

1) Commercial pet retailers take in puppies for sale with little else than documents for AKC registration. AKC registration alone does not substantiate breeding quality of the dog, as such, commercial pet retailers offer an outlet for "backyard" breeders and puppy mills that randomly breed dogs with no consideration to issues such as health, genetic "soundness", temperament, or finding responsible puppy purchasers who will ensure the same;

2) No documentation of genetic testing/clearances are required to be presented in proof that the sire and dam of the puppies are healthy, genetically "sound", and temperamentally "sound" individuals capable of passing on similar "sound" traits to their offspring;

3) Commercial pet retailers do not sell on "Limited Registration", a policy of the AKC which allows breeders to prohibit pet owners from indiscriminately breeding their pets, thereby serving as one means for assisting in control of the dog overpopulation crisis;

4) Commercial pet retailers do not socialize puppies and since they do not demand high standards from the breeders of the puppies they obtain, these dogs are often deficient in socialization skills with adults, children and other dogs. As a result of these deficits, many of these dogs end up abandoned, in overcrowded animal shelters, or as the premise of a new "dangerous dog legislation";

5) Commercial pet retailers do not screen prospective puppy buyers to ensure that each puppy is placed in a loving home compatible to the traits and requirements of the breed, which will also provide necessary veterinarian care, training and socialization, and responsible pet ownership;

6) Commercial pet retailers do not take back dogs that have not "worked-out" in their new homes, or assist pet owners in finding new suitable homes for these dogs. As a result, these dogs end up in overcrowded animal shelters awaiting euthanasia.
 

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PET stores: THE NEW LIE

Pet stores are out to make money. Period. The salespeople they hire will say practically anything to get you to pay an obscene amount of money for a puppy that is likely defective. That being said, here's the real scoop on the poop pet stores will try to feed you.

Reality

The majority of the puppies sold in pet stores come from breeding farms called puppy mills. These dog farms typically keep dozens or hundreds of dogs in tiny, filthy pest and feces infested crates their entire lives, producing litter after litter. They rarely receive veterinary care, exercise, or attention. Most will be shot when they stop producing puppies.

Many of the puppies produced by these places have genetic defects and health problems related to the conditions they are raised in. Most of them will die young. Click below for more information and photos on puppy mills:

Puppy Mills

But they said...

Of course pet store owners don't want you to know all of this, because if you did, there's no way you'd ever pay thousands of dollars for one of their puppies. So here are some of the lies and misleading statement's I've heard:

The pet store said: Our puppies don't come from puppy mills. We get them from responsible breeders.
Truth: A responsible breeder would NEVER sell a puppy to a pet store. NO EXCEPTIONS. The first rule of responsible breeding is to do everything in your power to make sure your puppies are properly cared for and find new owners that will care for them as well as you did. A responsible breeder will want to meet and interview prospective owners, have a contract, and keep in touch throughout the puppy's life to make sure everything is OK. They won't pass this off to a 16-yr old pet store employee.

The pet store said: Our puppies are better quality because they come from other states. They're not inbred like the dogs you can get from a breeder around here.
Truth: Just because a dog comes from another state doesn't mean it's not inbred. In fact, most puppy mills are located in states like Arkansas, Missouri, Pennsylvania, Kansas, and Oklahoma, and a good portion of the dogs produced by them are inbred. Ask to see a copy of the puppy's pedigree - this will list the last 4 generations of your puppy's bloodline. Write down the name of the breeding kennel and investigate. No matter what, you'll get a better quality dog from a responsible breeder than you will from a puppy mill.

The pet store said: Our puppies have a lifetime guarantee. You won't get that from a breeder.
Truth: Ask what happens if you buy a puppy from a pet store and 3 years from now it develops debilitating hip dysplasia. They will likely tell you that you can return the dog and they'll give you a new one. What??? So your dog, that is now a member of your family, continues to live in pain or is euthanized, and you start over with a new puppy...only to have the same thing happen again? Prevention is the key here. A responsible breeder will not breed a dog with major health issues, and will always screen the parents for any diseases common to that particular breed prior to breeding. Ask what tests have been done (ie: OFA Hips, Thyroid, Eyes, Elbows, Heart, etc) and ask to see copies of the results. Chances are, if your puppy's parents are healthy, your pup will be healthy too. Most responsible breeders will guarantee their puppies for a period of time that will allow you to take the pup to your vet for a screening.

The pet store said: All of our puppies are healthy. Just look at them.
Truth: What you don't see is the puppy with mange in the back room, or the one with parvo that the owner brought to his house. (I've actually seen these things...) Not to mention, just because a puppy looks cute and fluffy doesn't mean it's healthy. A lot of problems can arise later in life, or a puppy might not show any symptoms of a disease until he reaches a certain age.

The pet store said: We offer a payment plan. You'll have to pay up front from a breeder.
Truth: They have to offer a payment plan because they charge 3-5 times the amount of a responsible breeder. Buying from a breeder is usually equivalent to the cost of the first payment at a pet store. If you're seriously low on cash and want a pet, look into adopting a dog from a shelter or rescue organization - it's cheaper, and the dogs are already spayed/neutered and up to date on shots.

By purchasing a dog from a pet store, you are creating a demand for puppy millers to supply and your dollars are supporting their cruelty and mistreatment of dogs. Pet store puppies are drastically overpriced and usually have health issues. Please consider adopting a dog from a shelter, or if you must have a puppy, go to a responsible breeder.
 

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Actually I know a breeder....a very good breeder infact, that sold to a petstore. If the puppies didn't sell by a certain time, they went back to the breeder who found them homes. You can get on me all you want about it......but I know what I know.
 

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Originally posted by Carrie@Jul 25 2005, 03:07 PM
Actually I know a breeder....a very good breeder infact, that sold to a petstore.  If the puppies didn't sell by a certain time, they went back to the breeder who found them homes.  You can get on me all you want about it......but I know what I know.
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If they are such a good breeder, why did they have to revert to selling to a pet store? Most reputable breeders have waiting lists. I just can't imagine letting anyone but me make the decision as to where one of my babies will spend its life.
 

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I don't buy that a good breeder would sell to a pet store either.

If they were a good breeder then they would care about where their dogs ended up and if they were to be continued to be bred or not...

Only people that wants to make a quick buck or just in it for the money would sell to a pet store. That's blunt but it's a fact.
 

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Originally posted by Carrie@Jul 25 2005, 04:07 PM
Actually I know a breeder....a very good breeder infact, that sold to a petstore.  If the puppies didn't sell by a certain time, they went back to the breeder who found them homes.  You can get on me all you want about it......but I know what I know.
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Hi, I'm just curious... you mention that this is a "very good breeder". What is it about this breeder that indicates to you he/she is a "good breeder"?
 

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Originally posted by Paris'Mom@Jul 26 2005, 12:34 AM
I don't buy that a good breeder would sell to a pet store either.

If they were a good breeder then they would care about where their dogs ended up and if they were to be continued to be bred or not...

Only people that wants to make a quick buck or just in it for the money would sell to a pet store.  That's blunt but it's a fact.
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I agree.
 

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Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom+Jul 26 2005, 07:04 AM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Carrie
@Jul 25 2005, 04:07 PM
Actually I know a breeder....a very good breeder infact, that sold to a petstore.  If the puppies didn't sell by a certain time, they went back to the breeder who found them homes.  You can get on me all you want about it......but I know what I know.
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Hi, I'm just curious... you mention that this is a "very good breeder". What is it about this breeder that indicates to you he/she is a "good breeder"?
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Probably since it was my dad, and he was on his death bed.
 

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Lady's Mom,

Thank you for the posts on Pet Stores......I did a copy of those and am printing up a batch so I've got them in my car when I am in the area of pet stores.....gonna leaflet what I can. Any bit is a drop in the bucket but you never know the power of educating that one individual and how that drop can spread across a large body of water.

Carrie,

I am truly sorry you lost your Dad.....I miss my parents more every day and they have been gone for many years now. I am sure he was a good father for you to defend his selling to pet stores but none of us are perfect and I do agree that selling his dogs through a pet store was still a misguided act.
 

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Originally posted by Pico's Parent@Jul 27 2005, 12:11 PM
Lady's Mom,

Thank you for the posts on Pet Stores......I did a copy of those and am printing up a batch so I've got them in my car when I am in the area of pet stores.....gonna leaflet what I can.  Any bit is a drop in the bucket but you never know the power of educating that one individual and how that drop can spread across a large body of water.

Carrie,

I am truly sorry you lost your Dad.....I miss my parents more every day and they have been gone for many years now.  I am sure he was a good father for you to defend his selling to pet stores but none of us are perfect and I do agree that selling his dogs through a pet store was still a misguided act.
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Truthfully, it wasn't a petstore that normally sold dogs. They took cats from a place called Project Paw (because they had too many) and sold them in the store for $25 fully vaccinated and fixed. It was a family run pet/feed store and they were family friends. Misguided act is the wrong term. His partner of 14 years (she was his partner in many ways, he worked for the government and she was home to care for the dogs) had just left him, he became ill and he had no choice. Of course the limited papers still applied and they did reference checks. Actually, I know where those 2 puppies are, and are wonderfully loved.

I don't even know why I even have to explain to you people. Not like I care what you think.
 

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Originally posted by Carrie+Jul 27 2005, 11:25 AM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Pico's Parent
@Jul 27 2005, 12:11 PM
Lady's Mom,

Thank you for the posts on Pet Stores......I did a copy of those and am printing up a batch so I've got them in my car when I am in the area of pet stores.....gonna leaflet what I can.  Any bit is a drop in the bucket but you never know the power of educating that one individual and how that drop can spread across a large body of water.

Carrie,

I am truly sorry you lost your Dad.....I miss my parents more every day and they have been gone for many years now.  I am sure he was a good father for you to defend his selling to pet stores but none of us are perfect and I do agree that selling his dogs through a pet store was still a misguided act.
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Truthfully, it wasn't a petstore that normally sold dogs. They took cats from a place called Project Paw (because they had too many) and sold them in the store for $25 fully vaccinated and fixed. It was a family run pet/feed store and they were family friends. Misguided act is the wrong term. His partner of 14 years (she was his partner in many ways, he worked for the government and she was home to care for the dogs) had just left him, he became ill and he had no choice. Of course the limited papers still applied and they did reference checks. Actually, I know where those 2 puppies are, and are wonderfully loved.

I don't even know why I even have to explain to you people. Not like I care what you think.
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I'm sorry if any of the posts offended you, I really dont think anybody meant it. Some people just have very strong opinions. If the puppy ended up in a safe, well loving home, thats what matters in the end.
 

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Yes, Carrie, a little more complete story from the beginning would have helped. As it was written no one could know the facts you just gave us and those certainly put a very different cast to the story.

You are now saying he did not sell dogs to a petstore as a matter of course but one-time as a matter of no choice? Big difference.
 
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