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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've just seen an information brochure (I found it in one of the discussions here) on the NILIF program.

I am going to start this straight away - after reading it, it sounds exactly what has been going on with Abby lately!

I have a question though.... if I ask her to do something and she doesn't - what do I do?

And should I leash her every time she goes outside?

Also, should I make her sleep on the floor instead of my bed? I have some old pillows that I could do up with her blanket to make her a bed - but how do I get her to stay on it? Should I set up her play pen again until she is used to sleeping on it?

I'll feel so bad making her sleep on the floor. I know she'll hate me for it...
 

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Originally posted by Sunshine@Sep 13 2005, 04:29 AM
I've just seen an information brochure (I found it in one of the discussions here) on the NILIF program.

I am going to start this straight away - after reading it, it sounds exactly what has been going on with Abby lately!

I have a question though.... if I ask her to do something and she doesn't - what do I do?

And should I leash her every time she goes outside?

Also, should I make her sleep on the floor instead of my bed? I have some old pillows that I could do up with her blanket to make her a bed - but how do I get her to stay on it? Should I set up her play pen again until she is used to sleeping on it?

I'll feel so bad making her sleep on the floor. I know she'll hate me for it... 

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If you ask her to do something and she doesn't wait her out. If after a minute or so she still has not done it as again.

If you do not have a fenced in yard and she isn't very good with the come command then yes you should leash her everytime.

My girls slept in their crates for the first few month (lexi longer because she would jump off the bed to go to her crate). THey are both now sleeping in my bed. I would say if you want her to sleep in the bed with you and you are not having any problems associated with that then she can sleep in the bed with you.

I have done the NILIF program with Lexi. You don't have to do all of the "parts" of it. I only did the food and privledges (going outside, sitting on my lap, getting on the couch) parts because those were the areas I was having problems with. I didn't do anything with toys.
 

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You need to use cues for behaviors that she knows. If she ignores you, she gets a time out in her crate and ignored for 10 minutes. Happily ask her to crate up and then totally ignore her. I usually say "uh oh" in a happy voice and then have the dog kennel up.

Do you have a fenced in yard? I would take her out on leash and ask her to do something for her free run time. Also play the recall game and have her come back to you for a treat and let her go back to playing.

I would crate her at night.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I've just found at that she is definitely just being 'ignorant' (not wanting to follow my orders). I told her to sit before we walked out the door. She stood there and looked at me. I didn't say anything else, I just had my hand on the door handle and watched her (I wasn't glaring or anything). I actually started to think to myself and raised my eyebrows - then she sat?! She did the exact same thing later on when i told her to "down". She sat there looking at me for a bit and then when I didn't even move I just waited, she did it ???? It's like she has to put a 15 second delay on everything just to show me that she's not a dog


BUT, in saying that, she is getting the hang of it even already. I made her sit & down & wait for her dinner last night, until I said ok and patted her. She didn't think much of it, but she did it after only picking the bowl back up once!

The hardest thing so far is ignoring her when she jumps up on me, or does her little attention seeking "dance", or scratches at my lap. I hold out until she gives up and lays down or something - wait about a minute, then I call her over, tell her to sit and then pick her up and give her cuddles and play.

I'm about to send the document I found to my mother - her and my father have to learn it!
 

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Thank you so much for bringing this information to light. I am going to start this immediately with Bijou. His medication is helping with the panic feelings and I am going to start this. I am hoping that time, training and patience will fix this. He is preventing me from getting out of the house except when I have to leave. It isn't a good feeling to be a prisioner in your own home.
 

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Originally posted by Bijousmom@Sep 28 2005, 11:05 AM
Thank you so much for bringing this information to light.  I am going to start this immediately with Bijou.  His medication is helping with the panic feelings and I am going to start this.  I am hoping that time, training and patience will fix this.  He is preventing me from getting out of the house except when I have to leave.  It isn't a good feeling to be a prisioner in your own home.
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Oh, dear, that sounds like a very serious situation. Does he get agressive when you try to leave? You may want to consult a professional trainer.

I had a professional trainer once for a Springer puppy who growled if someone came near her food or toy when we first brought her home at 7 weeks. We didn't deal with and it got worse. She started biting my 3 year old son at 5 months old and getting really nasty with my ex-husband if he tried to get her off the couch, etc. The only one she was wonderful with was me as she apparently considered me her pack leader. Problem was she didn't want anyone near her pack leader! She actually bit my poor little son when he came up to me to ask me a question. She was lying at my feet and decided she didn't want to share me!

The trainer evaluated her, said she was an "alpha" dog, and worked with me on how to correct her behavior. She said that if if we didn't get it under control now it could escalate to a situation where Peggy would not allow us to leave the house if she decided she didn't want us to.

How old is he? What is his background? What kind of medication is he on?

In Peggy's case, my vet said her breeding was part of the problem. She came from a backyard breeder we found in a newspaper ad. Puppy mill (pet shop) puppies can have real problems with aggression when they mature at about 1 year since they were never properly socialized as puppies and taken from their mothers too soon to learn pack hierarchy.
 

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Originally posted by LadysMom+Sep 28 2005, 11:51 AM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Bijousmom
@Sep 28 2005, 11:05 AM
Thank you so much for bringing this information to light.  I am going to start this immediately with Bijou.  His medication is helping with the panic feelings and I am going to start this.  I am hoping that time, training and patience will fix this.  He is preventing me from getting out of the house except when I have to leave.  It isn't a good feeling to be a prisioner in your own home.
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Oh, dear, that sounds like a very serious situation. Does he get agressive when you try to leave? You may want to consult a professional trainer.

I had a professional trainer once for a Springer puppy who growled if someone came near her food or toy when we first brought her home at 7 weeks. We didn't deal with and it got worse. She started biting my 3 year old son at 5 months old and getting really nasty with my ex-husband if he tried to get her off the couch, etc. The only one she was wonderful with was me as she apparently considered me her pack leader. Problem was she didn't want anyone near her pack leader! She actually bit my poor little son when he came up to me to ask me a question. She was lying at my feet and decided she didn't want to share me!

The trainer evaluated her, said she was an "alpha" dog, and worked with me on how to correct her behavior. She said that if if we didn't get it under control now it could escalate to a situation where Peggy would not allow us to leave the house if she decided she didn't want us to.

How old is he? What is his background? What kind of medication is he on?

In Peggy's case, my vet said her breeding was part of the problem. She came from a backyard breeder we found in a newspaper ad. Puppy mill (pet shop) puppies can have real problems with aggression when they mature at about 1 year since they were never properly socialized as puppies and taken from their mothers too soon to learn pack hierarchy.
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I didn't intend to hijack the discussion. My post discussion is under training, the topic of medication, but to answer your questions. Bijou is seven months old. He is from a show/breeder with beautiful dogs. I guess beauty is only skin deep. The dogs and puppies were kept together in cages. I purchased him when he was almost 5 months old. I suppose his problem stems from not enough contact with people rather than other dogs. The only issue that I thought about at the time was paper training since he only went in the cage. I couldn't stand the thought of him going back into the cage. I guess the saying is true that no good deed goes unpunished. I have never owned a dog like this. I guess this is why rescue dogs are around, for people who feel like me. I hired a trainer. I do the positive approach of being cheerful when I leave, because I am thrilled to be leaving. My daughter has him at her apartment in town right now to give me a break and it really is a break,
I feel so free.
 

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Have you tried taking to a animal behavorist? They would be able to observe him in his home environment and give you some specific things to work on.
 

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I didn't intend to hijack the discussion. My post discussion is under training, the topic of medication, but to answer your questions. Bijou is seven months old. He is from a show/breeder with beautiful dogs. I guess beauty is only skin deep. The dogs and puppies were kept together in cages. I purchased him when he was almost 5 months old. I suppose his problem stems from not enough contact with people rather than other dogs. The only issue that I thought about at the time was paper training since he only went in the cage. I couldn't stand the thought of him going back into the cage. I guess the saying is true that no good deed goes unpunished. I have never owned a dog like this. I guess this is why rescue dogs are around, for people who feel like me. I hired a trainer. I do the positive approach of being cheerful when I leave, because I am thrilled to be leaving. My daughter has him at her apartment in town right now to give me a break and it really is a break,
I feel so free.
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I am so sorry to hear your story. It sounds like you did everything "right" and found an excellent breeder. I posted a link to an excellent article awhile back (too bad I can't remember where!) that defended backyard breeders just for the reasons you are describing. It stressed how important human contact, handling, etc. was a certain number of times during the day, especially during certain critical weeks in a puppy's attitude towards humans. It criticized many show breeders who raised their puppies in kennels as being no better than puppy mills in producing dogs with the potential for the same behavioral problems.

As someone who has only had rescue pets for 25 years, I was particularly touched by your statement that rescue groups are around for people like you. Yes, they are, for good people who have simply gotten themselves into a situation with a pet that they can no longer handle for a number of different reasons. It can be a very difficult decision to give up a pet, but if it isn't working out, it really is the best thing to do for them, to give them another chance.

That's how my story with Peggy ended. My vet convinced me that Peggy would never really be reliable around young children and the best thing I could do for her was "give her up" (as he phrased it so well) to someone who was better suited for her personality. He stressed how important it was to do it then, while she was still a puppy (she was only 7 months old) as it would be much easier to modify her behavior, she would adjust more easily, and she would be more adoptable.

He found Peggy the most wonderful 30 year old man whom he had known for years. Sam had worked at his office as a teenager, he and his parents had always had Springers, and Sam had dealt with one with serious aggression problems (bitten to the point of stitches). He also hunted.

It was a match made in heaven. He spent hours training her to hunt and said she was the smartest dog he ever had. Although he never had any further behavior problems with her, she was definately a one person dog as she had been with me. He said if he had company over, by choice she would just go go lie in his bedroom, away from everybody, waiting for him.

It made me so sad to give up on her, but it was the best thing I could have done for her.
 

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A certified trainer came on Monday, Pleasing Paws Training Company, and she showed me to shake his carrier with him in it and say quiet very softly and when that didn't work like she wanted she had me to spray him in the face three times each time he barked in the carrier and tell him quiet. Another suggestion that she gave would be to go in the room immediately with a pie tin against the front of the carrier and tell him quiet very softly again. I found her on the internet and the only thing that I learned is how to get rid of $40.00 in one hour. Waste of time and money. I could call another one but I don't want to go through this again.
 

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Originally posted by Bijousmom@Sep 28 2005, 03:08 PM
A certified trainer came on Monday, Pleasing Paws Training Company, and she showed me to shake his carrier with him in it and say quiet very softly and when that didn't work like she wanted she had me to spray him in the face three times each time he barked in the carrier and tell him quiet.  Another suggestion that she gave would be to go in the room immediately with a pie tin against the front of the carrier and tell him quiet very softly again.  I found her on the internet and the only thing that I learned is how to get rid of $40.00 in one hour.  Waste of time and money.  I could call another one but I don't want to go through this again.
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AND SHE IS TRAINER?!?!? :new_Eyecrazy: I would suggested asking your vet for a recommendation. Also there are some people on here that can tell you what kind of person to look for. You want someone that rewards good behavior and doesn't punish for bad, I think it is called positive something.

Try the NILF program but if that doesn't work I would call around to the vet offices in your area and see if they can recommend someone. Even then try to interview them (ask a bunch of questions) before actually scheduling something. That way you may be able to avoid wasting your money on a quack.
 

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Originally posted by Lexi's Mom+Sep 28 2005, 03:25 PM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Bijousmom
@Sep 28 2005, 03:08 PM
A certified trainer came on Monday, Pleasing Paws Training Company, and she showed me to shake his carrier with him in it and say quiet very softly and when that didn't work like she wanted she had me to spray him in the face three times each time he barked in the carrier and tell him quiet.  Another suggestion that she gave would be to go in the room immediately with a pie tin against the front of the carrier and tell him quiet very softly again.  I found her on the internet and the only thing that I learned is how to get rid of $40.00 in one hour.  Waste of time and money.  I could call another one but I don't want to go through this again.
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AND SHE IS TRAINER?!?!? :new_Eyecrazy: I would suggested asking your vet for a recommendation. Also there are some people on here that can tell you what kind of person to look for. You want someone that rewards good behavior and doesn't punish for bad, I think it is called positive something.

Try the NILF program but if that doesn't work I would call around to the vet offices in your area and see if they can recommend someone. Even then try to interview them (ask a bunch of questions) before actually scheduling something. That way you may be able to avoid wasting your money on a quack.
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I called the Vet's office to see if they could reccommend someone and the person on the phone said that they have a Vet that specializes in Behavior Counseling. I just drove to the office to pick up a questionaire so I have eleven pages to fill out. I wish that my Vet had suggested this and I hope that it works or I will have more money down the tubes. This will be $125.00 for the office visit/consultation and 2 follow up phone calls to be scheduled and allotted 15 minutes.

Maybe this will work but I still want to try the NILF program and I could use the money on other things for him.
 

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Originally posted by Bijousmom@Sep 28 2005, 07:38 PM
I called the Vet's office to see if they could reccommend someone and the person on the phone said that they have a Vet that specializes in Behavior Counseling.  I just drove to the office to pick up a questionaire so I have eleven pages to fill out.  I wish that my Vet had suggested this and I hope that it works or I will have more money down the tubes.  This will be $125.00 for the office visit/consultation and 2 follow up phone calls to be scheduled and allotted 15 minutes.

Maybe this will work but I still want to try the NILF program and I could use the money on other things for him.
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If I were in your situation I would likely go with the vet counseling, also. You've got to do something and that is the only solution that has any hope at this point. You're such a good mommy to do this for your baby. Some people might just leave him all the time and make him suffer. I sure hope it works out and you can start exepriencing the true joy of being a malt mommy!
 

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Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom+Sep 28 2005, 07:55 PM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Bijousmom
@Sep 28 2005, 07:38 PM
I called the Vet's office to see if they could reccommend someone and the person on the phone said that they have a Vet that specializes in Behavior Counseling.  I just drove to the office to pick up a questionaire so I have eleven pages to fill out.  I wish that my Vet had suggested this and I hope that it works or I will have more money down the tubes.  This will be $125.00 for the office visit/consultation and 2 follow up phone calls to be scheduled and allotted 15 minutes.

Maybe this will work but I still want to try the NILF program and I could use the money on other things for him.
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If I were in your situation I would likely go with the vet counseling, also. You've got to do something and that is the only solution that has any hope at this point. You're such a good mommy to do this for your baby. Some people might just leave him all the time and make him suffer. I sure hope it works out and you can start exepriencing the true joy of being a malt mommy!

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I thought that I was being a loving mommy trying to make him happy, but according to the NILF program I accomplished the opposite of what I wanted. I wanted him to have love and security that he didn't have before and I have made him more insecure. I guess I need to reverse the situation that I created by loving him too much.
 

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Originally posted by Bijousmom+Sep 28 2005, 09:56 PM-->
Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's [email protected] 28 2005, 07:55 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Bijousmom
@Sep 28 2005, 07:38 PM
I called the Vet's office to see if they could reccommend someone and the person on the phone said that they have a Vet that specializes in Behavior Counseling.  I just drove to the office to pick up a questionaire so I have eleven pages to fill out.  I wish that my Vet had suggested this and I hope that it works or I will have more money down the tubes.  This will be $125.00 for the office visit/consultation and 2 follow up phone calls to be scheduled and allotted 15 minutes.

Maybe this will work but I still want to try the NILF program and I could use the money on other things for him.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=104499


If I were in your situation I would likely go with the vet counseling, also. You've got to do something and that is the only solution that has any hope at this point. You're such a good mommy to do this for your baby. Some people might just leave him all the time and make him suffer. I sure hope it works out and you can start exepriencing the true joy of being a malt mommy!

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[/QUOTE]

I thought that I was being a loving mommy trying to make him happy, but according to the NILF program I accomplished the opposite of what I wanted. I wanted him to have love and security that he didn't have before and I have made him more insecure. I guess I need to reverse the situation that I created by loving him too much.
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No, no.... you can't love him too much.... it's just a matter of behaving a certain way around him so he can feel secure, etc. I love and kiss and spoil K & C like crazy. I've had the advantage of having a Malt for more than 12 years and I learned a lot during that first experience. Miraculously, things with K & C couldn't be better and we have such a great relationship. Please don't feel that you have to have one or the other... and that love has to be held back.
 

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Oh, I don't mean that I would actually love him less. It's just that when he says jump I will no longer say how high?
I am now the master that loves him and not the other way around.
 

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Originally posted by Bijousmom@Sep 28 2005, 10:22 PM
Oh, I don't mean that I would actually love him less.  It's just that when he says jump I will no longer say how high? 
I am now the master that loves him and not the other way around.
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Yes, that sounds good!! With my first Malt, she was the boss and now with K & C I'm the one they look to for guidance and it is so much better this way. I think the NILF sounds great. I just now spent a little time looking over the info. I think Bijou will get more confidence knowing that you are in charge. Good luck and keep us posted!!!
 
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