[Deanne3899]

Hi, everyone!
Xena, our seven year old adopted sweetie, is paper trained from the breeder, but I think she was paper trained on a large area that was also the only area she really had access to. We currently have her paper in the gated off kitchen/dining room area. She is pretty good (meaning most of the time) about going on the paper when we are in there with her. It's not consistently always on the paper, but enough of the time when we are in there also. However, two issues:

1. When we are not in the kitchen/dining room with her (like when we aren't home), she really doesn't consistently go on the paper at all. She just stops & squats. I've tried the puppy spray, but that didn't seem to make a difference. I don't see how I can limit the space she has in there, nor do we have the space to have a larger crate for her. (She just has her little crate for sleeping.) She DOES hold it while in her crate at night & she doesn't have to get up from sleeping (like when we are watching t.v.) to go- it's just in her alone time.

2. The more problemsome issue is that she will also pee whereever she is. Xena follows me everywhere and as I don't have a peepee pad attached to me & I'm not always in the area with the paper, this isn't a great thing. I really think it's that she is used to going, won't leave my side to go to her paper, and/or doesn't quite get that she is only supposed to go on the paper! With lots of potty breaks we surely eliminate the number of accidents, but she also seems to be going just a little bit lately (could be related to her recent spaying).

I always say, "find your paper" and "potty on the paper" to her, give her treats and loving when she does go on the paper, but what else can I do to one) limit the not in the paper area accidents and two) encourage the use of the paper? Any tips or suggestions?

TIA! Deanne

 

[saltymalty]

Hi Deanne, I'm no expert because our puppy is trained for outside potty (even during the blizzard she went outside). We are using the cabana (crate) to train her. You might want to consider doing the same for Xena. There is a great book, House Training for Dummies, that talks at length about how to paper train an older dog. It's an easy read and it is readily available at bookstores. Basically the theory is you restrict their time out of the cabana until they can prove themselves trustworthy...in other words, they go where they're supposed to. You put the dog on a schedule of time in and out of the cabana...starting with longer periods first then working your way down to shorter times in the cabana. The dog will learn when it's time to potty. It happens pretty quickly that they make the association between coming out of the cabana and going potty. But there can be regression, especially if you think that after a week, she's gotten it. It's a lot like potty training a child. You have to recognize their signals and get them on a schedule. The book has a suggested schedule for potty training, and it has been very helpful to us (we, of course, are using the puppy schedule). I hope this helps.

 

[Brinkley & Neyland's Mom]

I know that Nicole had great success with leashing Toby-so that she could immedietely catch/correct him when he was with her. Maybe that would work with her. These little guys are such people pleasers, it probably wouldn't take long for her to catch on to what makes you happy and what doesn't.
Good luck!!!!

 

[Ladysmom]

I also adopted my Lady as an adult (4&1/2).

Go back to Potty Training 101 as we call it, as if Xena were a puppy. My Lady was supposedly housetrained, too, but she had accidents all over the house at first. Don't give her too much freedom. I used an exercise pen with her crate in it in the beginning for Lady. If you can't watch her 100%, put her in her pen. Every time they have an accident, it will make it harder for her to relearn her potty habits and where it isappropriate to go in her new home. Tying her to you with a long leash or rope is a great way to make sure she is never out of sight. And praise her like crazy when she goes in the right place just as you would a puppy. Scent her pads or papers with a little of her own urine blotted up to attract her back to the proper spot. And make sure you get the smell completely out of any accidents in inappropriate places by using Nature's Miracle. You may want to buy a black light so you can find all the spots.

Adopting an older dog has it's own set of challenges, but worth each and every one of them. I'd highly recommend Carol Benjamin's book "Second Hand Dog".

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/087...2159864-1355262

 

[Deanne3899]

Thanks for all the tips so far! I kind of knew we should go back to the beginning with her, but....*sigh* Comments below:

When Xena does have an accident not in the papered area, she IS right by me.

Its usually that I'm doing something instead of watching her that very second. I do know that that is my fault, but she's so quick sometimes! (Like I am in my closet getting socks & look at her & she's starting to go!) I don't need to leash her to me as she is always right next to me!

We clean up immediately using Nature's Miracle- Xena is definitely not going in the same spot everytime. I'm also leaving the paper down a bit longer so she gets used to where. Like I said when we are in there, she's doing a really great job!

We don't have room for an exercise pen & I have Mommy guilt if I put her in her crate when we are home. I do leave her in the papered-gated area when I know I'll be busy & can't watch her & I give her lots of breaks when I can. She DOES go right when I let her out of her crate, so I do see how that could work.

She really has been doing little pees a lot the last few days. I'm wondering if this is related to the medication she is on or the surgery? She can "save it up" because she does.

I'll definitely check out the book suggestions! Any other ideas are welcome!
Deanne

 

[Ladysmom]

She may have a little incontinence since she's just been spayed which may explain the frequent urge to pee and a lot of the problem right there. If it doesn't stop on it's own, though I'd check with your vet. If you find she really has to go often, you might want to take a urine sample in to be tested for a little urinary tract infection. They're not that uncommon, especially in female dogs. Has she had puppies recently?

 

[jmm]

How about putting her on a schedule for going potty as well. That will help with accidents. Take her to the papers at set times and praise her for going.

 

[020202]

I don't have my maltese with us yet, but I do have a older dog that I housetrained in a very small amount of time. This book I just started to read, The Culture Clash basically states that if your dog is not peeing where she is supposed to, it's because she has no reason not to. Now that's as far as I got in the book, but it really makes sense to me. Perhaps Jim could explain it much better. A dog does everything because it's in their best interest. If they aren't peeing where they are supposed to, it's simply not in their best interest.

I'd like to recommend that book to you. We're doing the first Spoiled Maltese Bookclub on it.

 

[Deanne3899]

*lol* I agree that it's not in her best interest- it's because she has to keep me in her sight at all times, so if I'm not by the paper, she'll go where ever we are!

Honestly it really has only been the last few days that have made me worry. Like I said, when we are by the paper (taking a potty break), she's really great about going on (or nearly on) the paper & we shower her with love & praise, it's when we aren't there- either us physically or near the paper.

We do keep her on a schedule when we are home with her, but these last few days even when we've done that, she still has to go. That is a surprise when it happens b/c I will let her follow me around when I know she's just gone. I want her to be able to do that, hence my concern. *sigh* I'll definitely have her checked for a UTI on Monday if it continues. She wasn't doing "a little bit of pee" prior to her surgery and was quite regular with her four times a day or so potty breaks.

I'd love to read The Culture Clash, but I'm taking three graduate classes in addition to teaching full-time, so my reading for the joy of reading is somewhat limited. I'll be following the book discussion though!

Thank you all!

SM!
Deanne

 

[jmm]

I would check her for a UTI sooner rather than later. Frequent and inappropriate urination are classic signs. If she didn't have bloodwork done at the time of her spay, it would be a good idea to do so to rule out kidney and liver problems which can also cause increased urination. If that is not the case, you need to restrict her and make sure before she follows you around the house she has gone potty. You have to start out assuming she has no idea what is appropriate and not, and ensure that she succeeds at going in the right place. Prevent opportunities for mistakes by making sure she has gone before she follow you or else is confined and by confining her when you cannot watch her. She may even need to be confined to her crate at times during the day if she doesn't use the pads when you are not there.

 

[Sunshine]

I think you should try a few things...

The first thing I would do is keep a little notepad. Write down the time she eats, the time she potties etc...

Your best bet is to "start over". Potty breaks as soon as she gets up from a nap, after meals or big drinks, after playing... just constantly taking her to the right spot and praising like crazy when she does the right thing....

My other thought was that maybe you could try crate training. I know you feel guilty to lock her up when you are there, but if you have maybe a 4-5 day span where you are home, you could be strict and do it then and it should have a positive effect on the issue. You still take her out to eat and drink, to play, to be trained and to just be with you when you are sitting about, you just put her in there when you are busy or can't give her 100% attention. And all you do is every time you take her out of the crate you take her potty first. If she doesn't potty, put her back in for a few minutes then try again. She can have toys etc with her in the crate, so she should be okay. And as soon as she potties, she's free - she will learn that in time

I also found that once I started to take my puppy outside (I originally only wanted her puppy pad trained, now she's both outside and pad trained!), she seemed to get a better grasp of it. I don't know really, but I think maybe being able to associate a COMPLETELY different place with going potty (like outside) is a bit easier for them to understand or something... or at least that's what it seemed like in my case!

But all in all, I think you are best off sorting out that schedule first!!!

 

[Deanne3899]

Thanks for the continued advice!

As this frequent urination has just happened since her operation, I do think it's related. Prior to that we were doing very well taking potty breaks every few hours (When we are home, please note that I am a FT teacher.) Since Thursday's operation the frequency of her peeing has tripled. I have really been consistent with her pottying as soon as she gets up, every few hours & especially before I let her follow me around as I do things. It seems it has to be *something* since it just started.

I called the vet today & just got off the phone with him. He feels it may be anesthesia effects, that the uterus is so close to the bladder & it's disturbed a bit, or she may have an UTI. If the excessive peeing continues to Wednesday, he will switch her antibiotic to one that will treat a UTI. Yes, blood work was done prior & everything was a-okay. It seems too much of coincidence that the peeing has occured since the operation.

At the library today, I checked a few books also & read that in rare cases, spaying leads to incontience. But I don't think that is it as it's not like she's excited & loses her bladder, just that she's going a lot. Perhaps the I.V. drip overwhelmed her system creating a UTI?

I do think it would be a good idea to crate her some during the day when we aren't home as she's not consistently going on the paper, but we aren't home to let her in & out & do not have the space for a larger crate that could have the paper in it also.

I'll keep you all posted!
Thanks again for the great advice!
Deanne

 

[jmm]

Originally posted by Deanne3899@Jan 31 2005, 07:14 PM
Thanks for the continued advice!


At the library today, I checked a few books also & read that in rare cases, spaying leads to incontience. But I don't think that is it as it's not like she's excited & loses her bladder, just that she's going a lot. Perhaps the I.V. drip overwhelmed her system creating a UTI?

I do think it would be a good idea to crate her some during the day when we aren't home as she's not consistently going on the paper, but we aren't home to let her in & out & do not have the space for a larger crate that could have the paper in it also.

I'll keep you all posted!
Thanks again for the great advice!
Deanne
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[/QUOTE]

Spay incontinence is hormonal and there are great treatments available if she has that. UTI seems more likely. The stress of the vet and all could make her more susceptible. We see dogs who come home from the kennel and have accidents. They stress out and get UTIs. The IV drip is given at a maintenance and surgery rate and is not enough for her to still be urinating excessively. If she was at a high rate for any length of time, that should flush things out rather than allow an infection.

How long is she alone during the day? If she continues to go off of the papers while you are not home, it only reinforces that behavior. Other options would be to confine her to a bathroom (smaller space) or to have somebody come home at lunch or have a pet sitter come to let her out of her crate to potty.

 

[Deanne3899]

Thanks so much! I'll keep ALL of that in mind!

Last night after I posted & Xena had just gone potty, I let her follow me to my room to get my p.j.s on. She looked at me & whined a little bit, so I brought her back to the paper. She went! This was a positive to me because it did show that she knew she wasn't to go in my bedroom.

She had a good night last night- every time she went, she was on the paper. She's going to get fat on Cherrios! We put extra paper down for her today (she's home alone from 7:30-3:30 most days, Tuesdays a bit longer). I'll see how she does the next few days & then reevaluate the crating (or bathroom which is what we started with) while we are away. She probably wouldn't mind too much as she's okay from 9PM-5AM during the night, but I couldn't even attempt it while she's peeing so much. Night before last, she did whine to me during the night (& took her potty), but she slept through last night without going.

Deanne

 

[Ladysmom]

Can you take a urine sample to your vet to be checked for a uti? I think I'd do this asap if I were you. If you've ever had one yourself, they are no fun! Plus, since she's so new, you want to start off right as far as housebreaking in your house goes and a uti will only make that more difficult.

Does she go a lot when she pees frequently or just little dribbles?

 

[Deanne3899]

It's a little bit more often which is why I agree that it likely is an UTI. If it continues today, the vet will switch her antibiotic tomorrow. She's already on one from getting her teeth done & her eye drops. The vet nurse thought it may be the antibiotic for her eyes, but the vet said it's not enough. BUT she does wash her face after I put it in, so I wonder if she's actually injecting it some? But then again, she started peeing a lot more before I even started the drops. Hmmm...

Xena did so well last night & overnight, but she did potty upon waking and then twice more within two hours. Prior to surgery it was only once. Poor thing.

Deanne

 

[Ladysmom]

What antibiotic is she on? Both Clavamox and Baytril are good for utis.

Have you seen any blood?

 

[Deanne3899]

Not those antibiotics... Cl something & Predisolene (eyes). I'm terrible with medication names!

No, I haven't seen any blood in her urine, but I have noted that she really licks herself after she pees. I'm not sure if it's because something is bothering her or if that's just what dogs do!

An aside question- how do you tell if a dog has a fever (besides a rectal thermometer, I guess!) Last night when I was combing Xena I noticed her ears felt a little warm, but they weren't this AM.

Deanne

 

[Ladysmom]

Poor Xena. Excessive licking really is a sign of a uti ... and the fact that she is probably very uncomfortable.

I'm going to suggest you call you vet and tell him you want her checked for a uti today rather than waiting another day. It's very simple to catch a urine sample with a ladle or small dry measuring cup. Transfer it to clean styrofoam coffee cup, put the lid on it. and take it over there. It's a fast, simple and inexpensive test.

You will find that you have to be Xena's advocate and sometimes get pushy with your vet. I good vet won't mind, in fact, it's essential to develop the kind of relationship with your vet that allows your imput since you live with Xena 24/7.

 

[jmm]

Most of the time the best way is to take her temperature. Wet or cold noses don't mean much and ears can be deceiving.

Clindamycin for the antibiotic?

Have you looked at her vulva? Is there any odor? Sometimes urine can pool there and cause a UTI. If she does have one, it might be something to consider to use a wet paper towel or baby wipe to clean her up daily.