[doctorcathy]

i asked my vet about sprite. im pretty sure that sprite is grade 2 on one knee and grade 1 on the other.

but the vet basically said that both knees would eventually need surgery. and that if you do one knee....then the 2nd would get all the weight and then DEFINITELY need surgery.

i would do both knees. but ladymontava definitely knows more about this than me.

 

[dr.jaimie]

im pretty sure you can do both knees at one time, but i cant look through my orthopedic notes until after my final on friday...i have a lot of notes and they are not organized.....i'll go look through my book and see if it says in there.

 

[jmm]

It depends on the dog. In general, if the other leg is not too bad (they can walk comfortably on it), most ortho vets will want to do them separately, especially if you are doing more than deepening the trochlear groove and loosening/tightening ligaments (like doing a tibial tuberosity transpositioning). The idea is that with one good leg, recovery will go much more smoothly. Some dogs don't put weight on the surgery leg for a while after surgery. If you have both legs done at once, they don't have this option. This can be good (get them walking sooner) and bad (may be too much too soon).

I know of a few dogs who had them both done at once because of very severe luxating patellas that did not go back into place. They did fine after their rest time.

Once you see the surgeon, discuss the options with him or her. What is the surgeon most comfortable doing? How well does Cookie deal with pain? How severe are her knees? Do you have to do the surgeries back to back?

You will need to keep her off of slick floors for at least the first 6 weeks of recovery. That means get throw rugs for where she will be confined. For Mikey, I put a mat down with blankets over it in the kitchen and held that all down with an x-pen where he stayed. When Franny (labrador) had back surgery, we gated her in the carpeted family room.

With a more involved surgery, the recovery time will be longer. Mikey was restricted for 10-12 weeks, though he did start physical therapy almost immediately.

 

[dr.jaimie]

ok im so surprised the book had the answer...i actually found my notes and they didnt. okay the book said both stifles (knee joint) are routinely operated on at the same time in small dogs and cats, regardless of the types of procedures done (there is more than one way to fix),and the extra costs and dangers of a second operation outweigh the slightly more difficult postoperative course with bilateral(both sides) surgery. so yes get them done at the same time!

 

[dr.jaimie]

usually it is in the cage for 6 weeks except for snuggles, physical therapy, etc

 

[dr.jaimie]

as long as she stays in the bed i think she will be fine at least you dont have to worry about her jumping off the bed.

it will be much harder on you then her.

 

[doctorcathy]

ohhhh, i guess i didnt make it clear. i meant to get it done at the same time. lol. its awesome that you found your answers. tell us how it goes.

 

[jmm]

She can sleep in bed as long as she settles in and stays on the bed.

6 weeks of crate rest and, depending on the surgery, she may need limited activity longer than that.

 

[ButterCloudandNoriko]

Just curious you guys...6+ weeks of being confined, I would think would seem like forever for our babies

. How do they really feel about being confined? DMZ dogs--Did Cookie seem unhappy that he couldn't move at all? How much medication do they give you to take home?

 

[jmm]

Usually a week or so of NSAIDs is given. If the dog has a duragesic patch for pain, then 4-5 days of NSAIDs may be sent home. With a very small dog, it may be something like torbutrol instead of an NSAID like Rimadyl. Mikey had a patch only and was fine after it was removed. Depending on the surgeon, you may also have a short (10-17 day) course of antibiotics.

For immediate post-operative pain relief, many specialists inject the joint with marcaine and may do epidurals.

Mostly dogs get bored with being confined. Hollow bones or kongs stuffed with frozen yogurt, frozen bananas, peanut butter, squeeze cheese, frozen wet dog food, frozen chicken broth, etc. can be good entertainment. Depending on the surgery, gait training may start fairly quickly (Mikey had a tibial tuberosity transpositioning along with the typical little dog knee repair and he started gait training on day 5) and that brief work will help tire them out as they have to walk VERY slowly. Other games like which hand is the food are fun stationary games. For an extremely active dog, a light sedative might be needed. Benadryl at your vets advice can be tried or something stronger like acepromazine.

 

[ButterCloudandNoriko]

JMM--Wow thanks...Did your Mikey gain alot of weight?

 

[jmm]

No because he can't eat any of those things LOL That's a routine list for our cruciate repair patients. When you add in treats and such and inactivity, you have to reduce their food intake! It is especially important for dogs with orthopedic injuries to maintain a health, lean weight.

Many of the ingredients, like banana or low/no sodium chicken broth are not going to fatten your dog up. You should check with your vet to make sure your dog is an ok candidate for new foods like this if you've never fed them before. The last thing you want is a lame dog with diarrhea!

You can also put their regular dog food in with yogurt which is a health snack.

 

[Mystify79]

Originally posted by DMZ dogs@Dec 8 2004, 06:53 PM
ButterCloudandNoriko~  It was Noodle who had the surgery.  Cookie is the one who will be getting it soon.  It was mainly horrible for Noodle because of the post-op care he received.  The vet told me that he would have to stay in a cage AT the vet's clinic for two weeks.  I was also told not to visit as it would just overexcite Noodle and then get him depressed every time when I left.  I followed the vet's orders.  It was a long two weeks.  When it was finally time to pick him up, I was at the clinic an hour before it opened.  Because there is no one there at night, I sorta wrote off Noodle's very dirty condition because I figured he could have done that to himself that night and it wasn't like they'd had a chance to clean him up before I got there.

I managed to clean him up without getting his leg wet, but it took hours and was very difficult because I was so scared of hurting him.  Within days, however, his leg was swollen so I took him back in.  The vet said that he had been moving around too much and told me to leave him at the clinic for another two weeks or he would not be responsible for Noodle's condition.  Like an idiot, I did that.

This time, after the two weeks were up, I picked him up after work.  His condition was so much worse!  He was almost entirely yellow.  The only part of him not yellow was brown from the poo.  His eyes were bloodshot.  You know how there are always gooeys you need to pick out of their eyes every morning and evening?  Well, his had never been cleaned, so he tried to scrape them out himself with his urine and poo soaked feet.  The poo had actually worked itself into his hair and he had large sores on his skin were the acid from the poo and/or pee had started eating away at his skin.  Basically, he looked like one of those horribly neglected pets that get taken away from owners on those programs on Animal Planet.  He was underweight.  His eyes were a bit glazed and I honestly think that he'd had a breakdown.  This, coupled with all that had happened to him in his puppyhood was just too much.  He's never been the same again.

Needless to say, we never went back to that vet.  Since then, I have refused to leave him at any vet for anything at all.  I will also never leave Cookie anywhere more than one night (which I accept might be necessary after her knee surgery).  But, she is coming home immediately after that.  Yes, I know that all vets are not the same, but what was shocking was that no one found what happened to Noodle to be shocking.  The vet couldn't comprehend why I was so furiously angry at him.  Neither could the parents of the other patients who were there at the time.  They apparently thought it was perfectly normal to leave a dog recovering from surgery in a small cage and NEVER clean it.  He had pieces of poo in his water dish!!!    I wanted to go after the vet, but was talked out of it as all the Koreans I spoke with didn't find anything wrong with his treatment (or complete lack of it) for Noodle.  I wasn't about to put up a fight I wouldn't win anyway (especially in a foreign country where I don't know/understand all the rules and laws). 

Noodle's knee, the one that was operated on, is perfectly fine now.  Thank goodness for that at least.  However, I'm sure you can understand my extreme reluctance to ever get the other knee done.  It's already a grade one, so it'll have to be done eventually, and man oh man am I ever dreading that!  What if he remembers?!?!?!  Of course, he won't go through that again because I will tell any vet we go to upfront that the dog is coming home with me if not immeditately, then the very next day.

I made a huge mistake with Noodle and I won't repeat that mistake.  I don't think that I will ever fully trust any vet anywhere again after that.  That vet was highly respected and very well-known in Ulsan.  His clinic was recently re-modeled and everything was brand new.  It LOOKED like a decent place and he SEEMED like a decent vet.  But obviously, he and I had different standards of care for a dog recovering from surgery, or any dog at all for that matter.

Could really use some very angry and outraged smilies here as I'm working myself up over these memories.
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That is horrible!!! I can't believe they would let him get that way! I would have been outraged too. Yikes. :new_Eyecrazy:

 

[ButterCloudandNoriko]

DMZ dogs--Hey! I totally totally totally meant Noodles. This thread was talking mainly about Cookie and I guess I got stupid while I was typing. My bad!

I'm so sorry to hear that! That sounds horrific! I would have beaten the crap outta all of them.

 

[ButterCloudandNoriko]

Originally posted by DMZ dogs@Dec 8 2004, 11:03 PM
The first time he tried to pee on a pole in the street he flipped over and shot a lovely golden arch right into the air.  He had to go so badly that he couldn't stop and he didn't even bother trying to get up.  He peed and peed and peed.  Was hilarious!
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HAHA

! Noodle's so cute. I want to just squeeze him to death. I didn't think you were mad...I just felt bad anyway.