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Well guys. I really hoped I did not get a poop eater, but it looks like I have a poop eater. I am not quite sure, she might actually just be "playing" with it, but that could be my wishful thinking. I heard that it could be that something in her food is not being digested. That makes sense actually. Maybe she is giving her food a second chance. oh gross.

OR it could possibly taste better than her food! Yes, I tasted it. GROSS. One other time I tasted Holli's food, and it tasted like nothing. Like cardboard. Not this stuff. It has a gross fishy taste. ewwwww is all I can say. The breeder really recommends she stays on this pro-plan until 1 year. I read the posts on another alternative and might just give it a shot.

We are still having a ball. I am here reading alot and because of that, BUYING alot haha! Oh and we took a longer drive to a petsmart last night. We have a very local petco but this Petsmart is awesome! It has a hotel! A vet, a groomer and a hotel! It was very nice and I got the grand tour by a really nice girl there. Not that her gramma would ever let her go to a hotel, but this place is nice. And the folks are really nice.

OH and we are back to the name 'Phoebe' today. I hope I am not causing any permanent mental damage to the poor thing, but Halle was just not growing on me like I'd have liked. It could change, but by the end of this week I will have a name. If for nothing else so I can order her personalized Rhinestone collar!

Anyway, new photos in a few.

janet and phoebe
 

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Awww! It sounds like you guys are having a great time!!! I don't have any suggestions for the poop eating, except that I saw something called Deter, I think, that was a supplement that makes the poop taste bad? I would have thought poop already tasted bad to begin with, but who really knows?!? Don't worry about not settling on a name yet. Peanut went through a few names before we finally all agreed on Peanut. The poor little guy had no idea we were talking to him.

Phoebe is an adorable name.
 

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Hi, I like the name Phoebe......

I know that breeders like Pro-plan but it is made by Purina and IMHO there are a lot of foods that are "better".... I know a lot of knowledgable people on here use it and love it but.... it has a ton of corn (3 different versions) and also has by-products in it. Since you have the "poop eating" problem, I would look at some other alternatives.

I like the Royal Cannin Small breed because the kibble size is tiny and Catcher loved it. It is not perfect, but it still is a very good food. It is highly digestible and produces nice, firm stools! But look at Artimis' ingredients.... even better! We don't have that brand here but someone on SM wrote about it. Also, Innova is a good food but the kibble size is fairly large. Because it has no salt, it is not as palatable... Kallie would not eat it. The ingredient list is quite impressive though. Their site does not have the ingredients in a list that is easy to copy but here is the link so you an read about it:
Innova Puppy Kibble

Below I've put the ingredients for all three so you can compare and contrast. (BTW neither Kallie or Catcher have ever shown any interest at all in "poop eating" and they both ate Royal Canin small breed puppy food.)

Purina Pro Plan Small Breed Puppy Food
Chicken, corn gluten meal, brewers rice, beef tallow preserved with mixed-tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), whole grain corn, poultry by-product meal, fish meal, corn bran, natural flavors, dicalcium phosphate, hydrolyzed sunflower oil, egg product, salt, potassium chloride, choline chloride, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, DL-Methionine, zinc sulfate, vitamin supplements (E, A, B-12, D-3), ferrous sulfate, riboflavin supplement, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, biotin, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, copper sulfate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), calcium iodate, sodium selenite. C-4454

Royal Canin Small Breed Puppy Food
Chicken meal, chicken, corn gluten meal, brewers rice, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), brown rice, dried egg product, beet pulp, natural chicken flavor, brewer's yeast, salmon oil, potassium chloride, sodium silico aluminate, rice hulls, chicory extract, salt, choline chloride, salmon meal, dried apples, dried blueberries, taurine, vitamin E supplement, brewers yeast extract (Saccharomyces cerevisiae fermentation solubles), ascorbic acid, flax seed, marigold extract, monosodium phosphate, folic acid supplement, zinc oxide, iron sulfate, manganese proteinate, biotin, sage, iron proteinate, copper proteinate, calcium pantothenate, dried ginger, garlic, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, vitamin A supplement, rosemary extract, pyroxidine hydrochloride, sodium selenite, niacin supplement, riboflavin supplement, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin B12 supplement, calcium iodate, vitamin D3 supplement.

Artemis Puppy Food:
Chicken, Turkey, Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Lamb Meal, Brown Rice, Pearled Barley, Chicken Fat (preserved with Vitamin E, C and Rosemary Extract), Oatmeal, Dried Eggs, Fish Meal, Natural Flavoring, Canola Oil, Flaxseed, Fresh Potatoes, Fresh Carrots, Fresh Peas, Whole Fresh Apples, Cranberries, Dried Chicory Root (Prebiotics), Salt, Potassium Chloride, Lecithin, Garlic, DL-Methionine, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Choline Chloride, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Ascorbic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Dehydrated Kelp, Chelates of Zinc, Iron, Manganese, Copper and Cobalt, Potassium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Sage Extract, Aspergillus Oryzae Fermantation Soulubles (Digestive Enzyme), Enterococcus Faecium and Lactobacillus Acidophilus(Probiotics)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom@Feb 22 2005, 11:53 AM
But look at Artimis' ingredients.... even better! We don't have that brand here but someone on SM wrote about it.  Also, Innova is a good food but the kibble size is fairly large. Because it has no salt, it is not as palatable... Kallie would not eat it. The ingredient list is quite impressive though. <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=36941
[/QUOTE]


Thank you so much for the help. I have no idea what I am looking for. I think any time I see "by products" that is not good, is that true? What ingredients exactly, if you can tell me, do you definately not want to see in food? Are there some that are not so great but are acceptible? I read a post of yours on the Royal Cannin before so that is what I was going to try. You seem like such a pro on this topic!

Thanks everyone for the compliments! Her hair looks so wild I just laugh. She has this perfect fluffy coat everywhere EXCEPT her face and chest, which always looks stringy even after I brush it. Holli's coat changed alot as she grew up so I guess I wont know what I have for awhile.
 

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I found with corn, corn meal, ground corn....any kind of corn, Peanut could not tolerate the food well. I have had a lot of trouble in the past trying to get Peanut to eat. Our local shelter loves to see me walk through the door with bags of dog food Peanut wouldn't touch. There are lots of old posts about dog food here. Right now Peanut is eating a 50-50 Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul and Nutro Natural Choice Lamb and Rice Small Bite. He really likes both, and I just got a free sample of Artemis, that I will hold off on. It sounds like a great food, I just don't want to give Peanut too many options. Maybe when the bag of Nutro runs out I'll try it.
On Chicken Soup and Nutro, he has gained a pound (he's a little one at 5-6 pounds). His #2's are solid and small, and his hair has become so silky. Of course Pheobe may have different reactions to it.
If you have a smaller family owned or upscale petstore near by, it will be easier to find the higher quality dog food. Petco and Petsmart don't offer many choices that I liked. They also more likely will have free samples or smaller sample bags to buy. Of course there are places online too. I actually joined SM because of a dog food question, so most everything I know now is from everyone here!
 

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Originally posted by Holliberry+Feb 22 2005, 12:20 PM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Kallie/Catcher's Mom
@Feb 22 2005, 11:53 AM


But look at Artimis' ingredients.... even better! We don't have that brand here but someone on SM wrote about it.  Also, Innova is a good food but the kibble size is fairly large. Because it has no salt, it is not as palatable... Kallie would not eat it. The ingredient list is quite impressive though. <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=36941

Thank you so much for the help. I have no idea what I am looking for. I think any time I see "by products" that is not good, is that true? What ingredients exactly, if you can tell me, do you definately not want to see in food? Are there some that are not so great but are acceptible? I read a post of yours on the Royal Cannin before so that is what I was going to try. You seem like such a pro on this topic!

Thanks everyone for the compliments! Her hair looks so wild I just laugh. She has this perfect fluffy coat everywhere EXCEPT her face and chest, which always looks stringy even after I brush it. Holli's coat changed alot as she grew up so I guess I wont know what I have for awhile.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=36946
[/B][/QUOTE]

Hi, the thing I don't like about pro-plan is that it has corn, corn, and more corn. Corn can be an allergin in dogs and Royal Canin does have it also but gosh Pro-plan has corn gluten meal, whole grain corn, and corn bran... that is a ton of corn!!

You only see by-products in "cheaper" foods so that is a red flag for me. Also, I have been told by those who know more than I, that by-products are a low quality protein.

The place where I get my food has a lady who works there who is also a vet tech and she is very knowledgable about food. They sell from regular brands to premium. She recommended the Royal Canin for Catcher and said that for puppies it is a really good food because it is easy on their tummies.

Some of the really cheap foods will have BHA, BHT, and Ethoxyquin. Key in to the SM Search if you want to know more about these horrible chemicals. Key in "ethoxyquin" and you'll find the "Science Diet" thread and Ladys Mom tells lots of info on these.

If you have any particular questions, please don't hesitate to PM me and I'll give you my email address.

Phoebe is just soooo adorable!!!


Regarding ingredients, look for whole foods and no chemicals.
 

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I don't have any advice for poop eating. The very few times our pup has been close enough to her poop, she was more interested in batting it around and sniffing. I have heard that poop eating is an instinct...that wolves eat their poop to keep other animals from knowing when they're around. I don't know if that's true or not. We always scoop up the poop before she even has a chance to explore it's darker side.
 

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I just took chelsey of of pro - plan this weekend.
I noticed the corn as first ingredient too. She is now on the same food as chester.
I have plended a little of the proplan to make a smooth transtion. The rest of the big back we purchsed of proplan we gave to the emergency hospital down the road as well as her small harness, they will give it to the shelters.

Chelsy is the same size as chester and she is only 6 moths. I desided to take her off the puppy food, and she is now on Royal cain. I am also having a pooping issue with chelsey and hoping changing her food my help.

Both our puppies came from differnt breeders but both were on proplan... I just think is the the breeders choice for puppy food
 

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Just have to jump in here with my experience. I had my two boys on Royal Canin (small breed, small breed puppy, and Yorkie-I believe in variety) for about 4-6 weeks recently and they started getting bad, bad tearstains from it. I am convinced it is from this food, it was the only change in their lives. I am now using Solid Gold "Just A Wee Bit" and Artemis "Small Breed". Love it! Do give these a try if you are looking for an excellent, high quality food with a small kibble size. Even my 6 month old 3 pound boy doesn't have trouble chewing either one. Both my dogs find them very tasty--they run to their kennels at mealtime. I have to order both foods online, but well worth it!
Quincymom
 

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i love the name phoebe!
 

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Originally posted by Quincymom@Feb 22 2005, 01:26 PM
Just have to jump in here with my experience. I had my two boys on Royal Canin (small breed, small breed puppy, and Yorkie-I believe in variety) for about 4-6 weeks recently and they started getting bad, bad tearstains from it. I am convinced it is from this food, it was the only change in their lives. I am now using Solid Gold "Just A Wee Bit" and Artemis "Small Breed". Love it! Do give these a try if you are looking for an excellent, high quality food with a small kibble size. Even my 6 month old 3 pound boy doesn't have trouble chewing either one. Both my dogs find them very tasty--they run to their kennels at mealtime.  I have to order both  foods online, but well worth it!
Quincymom
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=36983
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That is weird about the Royal Canin. I haven't had that problem with either Kallie or Catcher. Catcher has always had a little tear staining. He went off Royal Canin puppy last month and is on Newman's Own adult and the little bit of tear staining is the same as always. But that is a powerful experience that you had with yours. Both brands that you are feeding are wonderful puppy foods....Kallie wouldn't eat the Solid Gold and unfortunately I had not heard about Artemis until recently. But Janet, you should look in to both of those for sure!!!
 

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I gonna have to keep my eye open on this. I hope chelesy does not start getting bad tear stains,... I don't want o have to buy two diffent foods again. It 's a lot of work
 

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Our breeder sent IzzyBella home with Eucanuba dry and Pedigree canned.


I know you aren't supposed to switch foods on them right away but I couldn't help myself. After reading the raves about Chicken Soup, I put her on that. I get it at an all Natural Health food store that has a pet section and that's the only food they carry so that is a great sign. Izzy has access to dry Chicken Soup kibble 24/7 but three times a day I soak less than a quarter cup of the dry kibble to make it moist and she eats that thinking she's getting a different food. She didn't care for the canned Chicken Soup, she just picked at it.
 

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Oh my gosh.I cant believe you wrote about the poop thing.I was just about to write a few lines on this very thing.Rudy eats poop too.Not his but the cats or any stray dog or cats that finds it's way into my yard to poop.The first time he did it I freaked and was chasing him all over the yard.He thought it was a game and was having a ball.Now everytime we go out to play he runs all over the yard.YES,looking for poop.GAWD!!! It's sooooo gross and I dont know what to do about it.he's on Pro-Plan and eats well.is this a normal thing for a puppy to do? This has become a really big problem.I dont like to even take him out to play any more and who wants to kiss him.
 

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Oh by the way.I love the name Phoebe.Very cute
And the pictures a precious
After reading all the comments on the Pro-Plan has made me a bit concerned.I dont lnow much about a good diet for puppies.I just went with what my breeder told me and them my vet said it was the BEST.Hmmm.He does sell it at his office.Rudy has dont well on it but now I wonder about the long term effects.I think I'll check out some of these that has been mentioned here.Thanks to all.
 

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We are on Chicken Soup dry/can right now and Brink loves it! He was on Pro Plan for puppies at one time and he did fine on it. As far as results, I can't tell any difference from the four foods I have had him on...he just eats the chicken soup better...
 

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Originally posted by lonestar@Feb 23 2005, 12:12 AM
Oh by the way.I love the name Phoebe.Very cute
And the pictures a precious
After reading all the comments on the Pro-Plan has made me a bit concerned.I dont lnow much about a good diet for puppies.I just went with what my breeder told me and them my vet said it was the BEST.Hmmm.He does sell it at his office.Rudy has dont well on it but now I wonder about the long term effects.I think I'll check out some of these that has been mentioned here.Thanks to all.

<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=37137
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Think of it this way..... doctors don't always know all of the ins and outs of nutrition. I have a feeling it is the same with vets. Some are probably more "in to" it than others.

For all your vet knows, Pro-plan is the best food out there. Unless he took the time to shop around and read ingredients and nutritional analysis of all the foods manufactured and compared and contrasted them, he wouldn't know. ... He likely doesn't have the time or reason to do that. In fact, should we really expect vets to be experts on food? And some big food companies like Purina, maker of Pro-plan, probably send vets samples and info. And of course, if he sells it, he will be recommending it.

The point is, there is nothing awful about Pro-plan(other than lots of corn and the by-products and those are fairly innocuous). There are just other foods that have less or no corn, no by-products and additional wholesome ingredients.
 
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