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High Quality of Breeds

I don't want to upset any one here, but I can't help but to ask these questions.

I have read that many people search and search for a top breeder and travel miles and miles to get the perfect puppy.

I have visited many breeder web site that have been discussed on here.

I also saw the post of many that told how and where their Malts came from.

My questions:

Even if you find the (perfect) breeder, how do you know for sure that your puppy came from that blood line of parents.

How do you know for sure that the breeder does not have sets of Malts that they breed only just for sale and charge the outrages price for show dog quality.

How would you know if some of these top breeders were not just high quality puppy mills.

Now, don't blow me off the web site, I having been wondering this since becoming a member here and never had the nerve to ask.


Puddles came from a lady that only had 2 Malts. I even showed up on the wrong date to check out her place and the 3 puppies she had. I also got 2 names of people that had gotten their puppies from her to check the birth dates.
Never know about people, never know who you can trust these days when it comes to money !
 

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Very good question, one doesn't know cause there is breeders out there that fudge reg. papers I know I seen one do it. It is so sad to think this is what is going on with the maltese line. Even when you think you can trust the breeder an take there word on what the puppy is suppose to be an turns out to be totally different in looks, features behavor an so on. I am a small breeder I don't make my living selling dogs or telling lies to others to get them to buy my dogs I don't even try to sell my dogs people hear about me through others that has some of my fur kidz an want one. I always look at it like this I treat others like I would want to be treated from others. So sad to think people are out there that will lie , email you beautiful pictures of dogs that are not even theirs picture of puppies that aren't even theirs they steel other peoples beautiful pictures an use them. So so sad. One just never knows if you are really buying the dog you are promised I know it happened to me those breeders like that needs punished or given some of there medicine back to them in larger doses . That is my opion!
Teaco
 

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Even if you find the (perfect) breeder, how do you know for sure that your puppy came from that blood line of parents.
If the breeder is perfect, they can be trusted that they will not lie about the bloodlines of the parents. Good breeders have a repution to maintain. If they lie, someone will find out along the way. You can always do DNA testing. If there is any doubt that the breeder is lying to you, he/she is not a perfect breeder.


How do you know for sure that the breeder does not have sets of Malts that they breed only just for sale and charge the outrages price for show dog quality.
You will have to visit their home and listen to them talk about their breeding program. Do they know all their malts by name? Can they tell you the faults of each? Honestly, they can't really hide their malts unless they have a seperate operations somewhere else. I know some breeders do have two sets of dogs so this is a toughy.

How would you know if some of these top breeders were not just high quality puppy mills.
Another toughie! Jenny Siliski tricked many people like this. Once again, I will suggest visiting their homes. It answers a lot of questions. Talk to them and get to know them. I will now only buy from breeders I know well and have become friends with.
 

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I've noticed that really good quality breeders tend to have worked with other really good quality breeders, right?

Whenever I go to a show breeder's website, they have lists of their champions.

Usually, they list the pedigree, and you can see the breeder's connections to other quality breeders via the show names.

For example, if you go to Chrisman, you can see that he has dogs that are related to Divine Maltese and Rhapsody Maltese, and they in turn, have worked with Marcris and Hi-Lite.

I figure, who better to keep the breeders in check than other breeders? They wouldn't want to add impurities to their lines, because they are striving to better the breed and produce best in show quality dogs.

LOL, am I at all close to being correct?
 

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those are questions that I struggled with too. Especially since I thought I had done my homework 5 years ago when I bought a maltese from Jennifer Siliski. I didn't even realize what a horrible person she was until I started looking for a second malt. That made me really scared to trust anybody!

So I lurked in this forum and the other, making note of good references and bad. I probably called about 15 different breeders trying to teach myself what to ask and what to listen for.

I was interested in people who had at least heard of the different concerns I addressed and listened more for *how* they answered rather than *what* they answered.

Kind of agree with Stini too that I think the top breeders somewhat keep the others "in check".

I eventually chose Tonia Holibaugh of Rhapsody Maltese. She was willing to talk to me on the phone for a couple of hours addressing my concerns and talking about her breeding program.

For example, my puppy Tristan was the result of breeding her champion, Thriller with one of her non-champion girls, Bella. Tonia was trying to work out some sort of exchange with a breeder contact in Italy. The standards for a Maltese in Europe are different than in the U.S. and a larger size is preferred. So Tonia bred these two in hopes of producing a slightly larger show quality female. As it turns out, the litter only produced two males so from the moment they were born, Tonia knew she would be looking for a pet home for them.

It sounded like a reasonable story to me. I enjoyed talking with her. Called a couple of references. And then took the rest on faith.

The result is that I love my Tristan and my conscience feels like I did everything I could to ensure that I wasn't purchasing from a puppy mill//high class or otherwise.
 

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I was also deceived by Jennifer Siliski. She is the breeder of my Cookie. She answered my emails and I loved the photos she sent me. Little did I know that the photos may be fake the parents aren't the real parents. But when I saw Cookie, I fell in love. She did have an ear infection but my vet said it was common. I did learn my hard way but got smart. I went to Tonia next
 

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This is a good article on how to recognize a good breeder. (It's a general guide, so the age when the pup leaves the mother should be 12 weeks for a Maltese)

HOW TO RECOGNIZE A REPUTABLE DOG BREEDER



by Linda Hazen Lewin



So, you've decided the pet for you is a purebred dog...good for you! Maybe. The question is, how do you find a reputable breeder? There are so many ads in the newspaper and so much conflicting information, and most of the books you read only mention the positive characteristics of the various breeds. (Common sense tells you every breed can't be as perfect as it is described!) How do you find someone who will be honest with you about their breed so you can make a truly informed choice?



The following are some of the typical characteristics of a reputable breeder:



1. Reputable breeders only produce a litter with the goal of improving their breed and with the full intent of keeping a puppy from the litter with which to continue their efforts. They do not breed to make money, to supply the pet market during a wave of breed popularity, to give the kids a sex education, or simply because they happen to have two dogs of the same breed on the premises. These last are all spurious reasons to add more dogs to the current population. If the breeder has produced a litter for a silly reason, beware!



2. Reputable breeders nearly always belong to a local or national breed club and they actively compete with their dogs. Competitions include licensed dog shows, field trials, obedience trials, herding trials, tracking events, earth dog trials and sled dog racing (among others). Reputable breeders know that AKC registration alone does not confer or imply quality or breeding value, any more than a DMV registration means you have a top quality car. Competition with other well-bred dogs helps to gauge whether a given dog is worthy of being bred; whether it offers its breed virtues that are worth reproducing. If the breeder does not belong to any dog organizations or compete with their dogs, beware!



3. Reputable breeders are willing and eager to spend time with you, explaining, teaching and advising you about their breed. They will make the disadvantages of owning their breed crystal clear, and it may be the first topic of conversation! No breed is perfect for everyone, and the responsible breeder wants to be absolutely sure that you really want, and are prepared to care for, this kind of dog for the life of the dog, not just during the "cute puppy stage". If the breeder does not go into breed peculiarities, beware!



4. Reputable breeders will screen you carefully, to assure your suitability for owning their breed. They will not sell a large, active dog to an apartment dweller or to someone without a fence, for example, nor a tiny toy dog to a home with small children. It is cruel to place a dog in an unsuitable home, and unethical to strap people with an unsuitable dog. A reputable breeder will refuse a sale, regardless of any personal financial strain or the amount of work involved, rather than place any dog in an unworkable situation. If the breeder does not question you closely about your home, your family, and your expectations of the dog, beware!



5. Reputable breeders sell only healthy stock, fully vetted, and guaranteed for some reasonable length of time after the sale. Their dogs are tested for any genetic deficiencies which can be detected by the age at which the dog is sold. Puppies should never be offered for sale any younger than 7 weeks of age, and preferably 8 weeks. If they are, you may be sure they have not had all their shots. Adult dogs offered for sale should be completely up to date on shots, recently wormed and heartworm-tested. Records of all veterinary treatments and testing should be offered to you in writing. If vaccinations are not complete and up to date, breed-appropriate testing for genetic defects hasn't been done (or the breeder says "Oh, that's not a problem in this breed" when you know it is), puppies are offered for sale at an extremely young age, or the breeder's dogs appear unwell, beware!



6. Reputable breeders offer, or even require, that any dog they sell be returned to them if your situation changes so that you cannot keep the dog. This applies whether the dog is 10 weeks old or 10 years old. No responsible breeder wants their dogs to end life in the pound, on the streets, or shuffled from one unsuitable home to another because the dog's family can't keep it any longer. Many breeders are also involved, on some level, in breed "rescue" work. When notified, they spend their own time and money to collect the abandoned dog, have it vetted, trained and socialized if necessary, and find it a loving home. While a breeder might not specifically mention involvement in rescue work, if he or she cranks out multiple litters a year, acts as a broker, or makes no mention of taking a dog back from you if your situation changes, chances are they are more concerned with taking your money than with taking responsibility for the puppies they have produced...beware!



7. Reputable breeders stay in touch with you on a regular basis to see how you're getting on with your new dog. They do not just sell you the dog and then disappear, leaving you to cope with problems on your own. This is probably the greatest advantage to buying your dog from an experienced breeder. You not only get a healthy, well-adjusted companion, you also get a lifetime of information, advice and assistance from an expert who cares deeply about your success with the animal he has sold to you. If the breeder takes the stance that "all sales are final", beware!



Remember, it is up to you, the purchaser, to make your choice wisely and to do your homework. Talk at length with as many breeders as possible, quiz each one on the above items and about their breed, and look at lots of dogs. A reputable breeder will be impressed and reassured that you are concerned about what you are doing, rather than impulse-buying. Find a breeder with whom you are comfortable, and whose dogs you like, and pick out your dream pet. Result: everybody wins!
 

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The problem is that sometimes we can be tricked even falling those guidelines. As an example, Jenny Siliski was active in the show rings. She led people to believe that she was bettering the breed and she bred for show dogs. I don't know about others but when I contacted her, she sent me long emails explaining the problems of the breed (it may have been cut and paste). She also asked me a large number of questions ... sorta like interviewing me .. but who knows if my responses would have made a difference or not.

In my contract, she also gave me a 5 year guarantee with requests for photos on a yearly basis. In this contract, she also requested Cookie be returned if for any reason I can't keep her.

All this makes it even more sad because she knows what she is suppose to do but she doesn't do it. But how can an innocent person really tell?

I asked how often she bred and she said not much. When I asked for feedback on her back in the days, no one had any objections and some said good things. It is really really hard to tell.

I am just glad that there doesn't appear to be other breeders who are doing the same thing now. Yes, we do hear rumours that some top breeders actually operate close to a puppy mill. We will never really know.

My advice is get to know the breeders .. become friends. I completely trust all the breeders I work with now and there is no doubt in my mind that they are true to their word. All the breeders I remain in contact with are also my mentors who teach what is right and wrong. They help me evaluate puppies and teaches me how to evaluate them myself.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks for the advice.

I had been thinking of getting Puddles a play mate and I really didn't know where to start looking. I talked to the lady that owns Puddles parents, she's not going to breed then any more and they were the only Malts she had. She also said it was to hard to let the babies go and after 3 litters she thought that was enough.

Guess Puddles can be an only child, a spoiled one !!!!!!
 

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On our Paris' registration document, there are the DNA# for each parent so the AKC does have copy of their DNA results...if I really wanted to, I can trace Paris' line to proof that they are his ancestors...this is what I am thinking...
 
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