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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I've always loved the idea of raw but am painfully aware that certain dogs do not do well on raw. Those that a raw diet are not for are:

  • dogs who are immune-compromised or receive immune-suppressant medications
  • dogs who are weak or debilitated with chronic illness
  • dogs with inflammatory bowel disease
  • dogs who have suffered from pancreatitis
My own Jett is believed to have had IBS, possibly IBD but I never did the liver biopsy to accurately diagnose IBD. I felt it too invasive and by putting him on a soft limited diet and supplementing with Probiotics with Digestive Enzymes, he recovered. He was on a soft limited diet for over a year with no slip ups ever. His diet was a canned chicken and rice and that was all he got for treats as well. After a year, I switched him to Dr. Harvey's Canine Health and began rotating cooked proteins. He did great! It took him a bit to build up to beef but he's totally fine with beef now. He could at this point eat anything and be fine. Anything that is but raw. Even the teeniest freeze dried raw treat would take him back to severe diarrhea. I tried mixing several freeze dried raw foods such as Stella and Chewey's with his Canine Health and he still could not eat raw. Now 2 years later, I decided to try them all on Addiction's Freeze Dried Raw. It has a lower protein amount then any other raw that I've looked at. I'm thinking Jett especially, but even Callie seem to do better with a lower protein food. Zoe seems to thrive on either. I'm still introducing the Addiction Freeze Dried Raw with their other food, but so far so good. No upset tummies or even remotely soft stools. It's been 2 days now and tomorrow I will up the mixture to a 50/50 blend. If anyone is interested in how he progresses, I'll be happy to update this thread.

There are several reasons I'm wanting to try and feed raw. I really do believe it the best for our fluffs. I think it helps with cleaner teeth, less periodontal problems, and just better overall health and promotes stronger immune systems. I think it may help with tear staining too...at least I'm hoping it will. I've been feeding Dr. Harvey's Canine Health but did try his Veg-To-Bowl for about 4 months. After about 4 months, Jett started to have loose stools and both he and Callie seemed to be more lethargic. So back to the Canine Health. However, during the moving of the store, I started to feed them Grandma Lucy's Artisan Food and really liked how they did on it. So I figured I would rotate between several formulas and the DH Canine Health. Interestingly enough, Callie's tear stains have almost completely disappeared on Grandma Lucy's and Jett's is considerably better. So I'm not sure I'm wanting to go back to DH's Canine Health only for that reason. I still think it a great food and may go back to it. So why not just stay with G'ma Lucy's Artisan? Well...it makes my Callie poop like 5 or 6 times a day! lol And it's harder to keep her weight up on that food. So if I could get her back down to just 2 times, after she eats, I'd be thrilled. Also, I've noticed bad breath with both Jett and Callie, even with proper brushing.

So far after just 2 days on the Addiction Freeze Dried Raw, there is an improvement in their breath and it has reduced the number of poops Callie has. I would love it if I could get them on a frozen raw with ground up bone, but I feel that may be too high protein for these small dogs. I've not searched as much on the frozen raw for protein amounts as I have the freeze dried since I've not brought in frozen raw yet. If anyone has had long term success feeding frozen raw to the small ones, under 6lbs, please let me know. I would really be interested to see if there is a pattern on high protein foods and toy breeds. I believe high protein kibble for any dog is not good unless soaked in water. But I've not had enough feedback on frozen raw or freeze dried raw with higher protein amounts and toy breeds.

Here's a link to Addiction's for anyone interested. I'm selling the canned & freeze dried raw with just a couple of the grain free kibble formulas, Viva La Venison and Salmon Bleu.

Addiction Pet Food - The Finest Pet Food is Here!

Thanks!
 

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I ordered 4 oz. packets of the Addiction Freeze Dried Raw from Amazon and so far they have eaten the "Perfect Summer Brushtail". All but Reese (i think because she's so new to the family) really loved it and were liking their bowls clean. I have to feed the grain free and poultry free because of allergies. I have "Steakhouse Beef & Zucchini" "Fig'Lcious Venison Feast" and "Herbed Lamb & Potato" left to try on the pups and see how they like it. Crystal how much dry did you use for the pups?

I'm very interested to continue to hear how your pups do on this food.
 

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Funny you should comment on the poops! Hunter is pooing 3 times a day on G'ma Lucy's but only since we rotated to the chicken....weird!!!
 

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Crystal,
My Nadia is right at 6 lbs and she has been on a frozen raw diet (Paw Naturaw) for over a year without any problems. Her annual exam, blood work and titers all good. She poops once or twice a day.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I ordered 4 oz. packets of the Addiction Freeze Dried Raw from Amazon and so far they have eaten the "Perfect Summer Brushtail". All but Reese (i think because she's so new to the family) really loved it and were liking their bowls clean. I have to feed the grain free and poultry free because of allergies. I have "Steakhouse Beef & Zucchini" "Fig'Lcious Venison Feast" and "Herbed Lamb & Potato" left to try on the pups and see how they like it. Crystal how much dry did you use for the pups?

I'm very interested to continue to hear how your pups do on this food.
Oh good! We can do this together. It is nice to have a larger group of Malts to evaluate and see if there are any commonalities. Are any of yours Asymptomatic MVD? I'm curious to see if there are any differences with an Asymptomatic MVD dog and one who is not. I'm going on the theory that my Jett is Asymptomatic MVD but did not know about doing the BAT's and Protein C test when I first got him. My understanding is that his BAT's could now be high for various other reasons and I many not get an accurate Dx.

I'm still experimenting with amounts. All of mine seem to be dropping weight on G'ma Lucy's Artisan. They were all at 1/4 cup of Dr H's Canine Health, with Zoe's being a rounded 1/4 cup. So tonight I did 1/8 cup of Addiction and a little more then 1/8 cup of G'ma Lucy's Artisan so the equivalent is a little more then 1/4 cup. Once I'm on only Addiction that may change.

How much are you feeding? Zoe is just under 9lbs, Jett is 5 1/2 lbs and Callie is not quite at 4 lbs at the moment but should be at 4 lbs.

Crystal,

When your ready to think about frozen raw Northwest Naturals has the lower protein your looking for. The hard part would be finding it in your area.
Northwest Naturals is the one I would really want to bring in because of the lower protein count...providing I can find a distributor for my area. Grrrr....you know the problems I'm having.

The worry I have with Northwest Naturals is that there are no 'starchy carbs' like potato or sweet potato. I'm thinking that some dogs who have a hard time with raw, like my Jett, might be better with some of the good starchy type carbs. I know both Jett and Callie did better on Dr. H's Canine Health as opposed to the Veg-to-Bowl and I'm thinking they need some good carbs. Also, the higher percentage of organ meat has me nervous too. I'm thinking for my Jett, it's probably best to start with the Addiction and then maybe I can get him onto Northwest Naturals ... providing I can get it.

Funny you should comment on the poops! Hunter is pooing 3 times a day on G'ma Lucy's but only since we rotated to the chicken....weird!!!
I'm thinking it's because the formulas I'm using are the ones with sweet potatoes in it. But I could be totally wrong on that. The chicken doesn't have any sweet potato in it so that may blow that theory.

Crystal,
My Nadia is right at 6 lbs and she has been on a frozen raw diet (Paw Naturaw) for over a year without any problems. Her annual exam, blood work and titers all good. She poops once or twice a day.
So good to know! Thank you! By any chance, is Nadia Asymptomatic MVD? I'm almost positive my Jett is and from Dr. Center's research, the majority of all Maltese and Yorkies are. I'm wondering how an Asymptomatic MVD dog does on a lower protein and a higher protein raw diet, with or without some carbs.
 

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Gracie had a bald patch and was very skinny so we tried switching foods to see if it would help. Got Nature's Variety Instinct Rabbit frozen...she loves it and her fur is growing back on the bald patch and she is starting to gain some weight. We now feed all three a bit of the raw mixed with their Prairie dry kibble. We rotate between the rabbit, lamb and beef now. I can't stand the way it smells though (the raw)
 

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Oh good! We can do this together. It is nice to have a larger group of Malts to evaluate and see if there are any commonalities. Are any of yours Asymptomatic MVD? I'm curious to see if there are any differences with an Asymptomatic MVD dog and one who is not. I'm going on the theory that my Jett is Asymptomatic MVD but did not know about doing the BAT's and Protein C test when I first got him. My understanding is that his BAT's could now be high for various other reasons and I many not get an accurate Dx.

I'm still experimenting with amounts. All of mine seem to be dropping weight on G'ma Lucy's Artisan. They were all at 1/4 cup of Dr H's Canine Health, with Zoe's being a rounded 1/4 cup. So tonight I did 1/8 cup of Addiction and a little more then 1/8 cup of G'ma Lucy's Artisan so the equivalent is a little more then 1/4 cup. Once I'm on only Addiction that may change.

How much are you feeding? Zoe is just under 9lbs, Jett is 5 1/2 lbs and Callie is not quite at 4 lbs at the moment but should be at 4 lbs.


None of mine have Asymptomatic MVD.

Right now i'm still feeding the Dr. Harvey's at night and will be feeding the Addiction in the morning. I'm currently feeding 1/4 c of Addiction in the morning and 1/4 c of Dr. Harvey in the evening. Mine are all pretty much in the same weight group, Chloe 6 1/2 lbs, Riley 5 lbs 14 oz, Noelle 5 lbs 5 oz and Reese 7 lbs (although she could stand to lose a little bit of weight). We tried the G'ma Lucy's and mine wouldn't touch it.

Do you still use the AE probiotics with digestive enzymes or any other suppliments?
 

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For the last few months now we've been feeding raw protein. Sophie is now on Dr. H's Canine Health and Annie is on Sojo's grain free. Sophie appears to be feeling much better - much more energy for one thing. Has started initiating play more. Her coat is looking better also. Annie had dragon breath since day one - within a few days of the switch she has wonderful breath. Her coat is much shinier and is no longer greasy. Tummy rumbles are gone for both. And, Annie used to actually stop in the middle of eating to go poop. She is now pooping more regularly.

I'm so happy feeding the raw that I actually went and bought an electric meat grinder.

I take the same precautions preparing their meals as I do our own as far as raw chicken, etc. Their bowls get picked up as soon as they are finished. I don't have any babies or toddlers crawling around, etc. I really don't believe there's any real danger in feeding them raw. Now, when I give them a raw chicken neck I tend to stress a bit so they only get those once in a while and under very close supervision.
 

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Micky just loves Stella & Chewy's freeze-dried raw. I don't feed it to him all the time though, because of the cost. I alternate between the S&C and one of the Acana foods. He won't eat the frozen raw that's been defrosted, but loves the freeze-dried raw. He hasn't had any issues eating it at all, but then he's 11lbs and I think he's got a stomach of steel, except for eggs. He can't eat eggs, they give him the runs.
 

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Very ironic you posted this because I was going to start a thread today about some new food suggestions. I've been doing Dr. H Canine Health since February. I feed 1/4 cup 2 times a day. On the days I don't have food made I feed them kibble. They were not big on Orijen and the Acana they only like the Grasslands. The problem is I think they are getting a little chunky. Especially Ben. I'm contemplating what food to switch to that is lower protein. I'm not sure though that I'm ready to do raw.

Does anyone have food suggestions that are lower cal and lower protein?
 

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I'm glad your three are doing well on raw. I was interested in feeding raw.....but every vet I've been to raises their eyebrow when I mention raw. I'm sure it works for some or most pets, but I just wanted to mention this because the reaction I get from the vets is so strong that it made me hesitate. They tell me that if I really want to feed raw, to zap it in the microwave for a few seconds as that will kill anything bad. I'm sure that defeats some of the purpose of raw, but I just wanted to pass the info along in case anyone wants to talk it over with their personal vet. I generally speak to my vet before making big changes in my pets' diet anyway.
 

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Please know that there are many dangers of infections to both you and your dogs with feeding raw!

Further, to my knowledge, there is no scientific evidence that raw is healthier.


From the Canadian Veterinary Journal:

An ethicist's commentary on the ?Raw Diet?


From the American Animal Hospital Association:

Raw Food Diets


From a veterinary nutritionist:

PetDiets

Stella & Chewy's is safer than most:

Stella & Chewy's - Food Safety

Stella & Chewy's - Test Results

Stella & Chewy's also meets AAFCO guidelines

http://stellaandchewys.com/rawfacts.html
 

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Stella & Chewy's is safer than most:

Stella & Chewy's - Food Safety

Stella & Chewy's - Test Results

Stella & Chewy's also meets AAFCO guidelines

Stella & Chewy's - Raw Facts
My fluffs love S&C also! I like how they test every batch for pathogens. Sometimes I put a tiny bit as a topper on their home-cooked food if they need a novel taste, but only after I microwave it based on my vet's advice. I do think that if I could not home cook for some reason, that I would probably feed a good freeze-dried raw food microwaved.
 

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I'm glad your three are doing well on raw. I was interested in feeding raw.....but every vet I've been to raises their eyebrow when I mention raw. I'm sure it works for some or most pets, but I just wanted to mention this because the reaction I get from the vets is so strong that it made me hesitate. They tell me that if I really want to feed raw, to zap it in the microwave for a few seconds as that will kill anything bad. I'm sure that defeats some of the purpose of raw, but I just wanted to pass the info along in case anyone wants to talk it over with their personal vet. I generally speak to my vet before making big changes in my pets' diet anyway.
The clinic I use has two vets. They both know I home cook. When I first brought it up one said don't do raw, the other is all for it. It's funny the were married at one time.:HistericalSmiley:But on a serious note I too was thinking to switching. Right now i make their food, if I wet raw I would purchase a brand. Just not sure how cost effective it would be.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Do you still use the AE probiotics with digestive enzymes or any other suppliments?
Yes I do. Mine will be on it daily for life. I also give them my K9 Liquid Health Glucosomine Chondrointin daily. With Dr. H's I also gave AE's Omega Supreme Fish Oil. Now I only give the the oil every couple of days while feeding Grandma Lucy's and Addiction Raw.

For the last few months now we've been feeding raw protein. Sophie is now on Dr. H's Canine Health and Annie is on Sojo's grain free. Sophie appears to be feeling much better - much more energy for one thing. Has started initiating play more. Her coat is looking better also. Annie had dragon breath since day one - within a few days of the switch she has wonderful breath. Her coat is much shinier and is no longer greasy. Tummy rumbles are gone for both. And, Annie used to actually stop in the middle of eating to go poop. She is now pooping more regularly.

I'm so happy feeding the raw that I actually went and bought an electric meat grinder.

I take the same precautions preparing their meals as I do our own as far as raw chicken, etc. Their bowls get picked up as soon as they are finished. I don't have any babies or toddlers crawling around, etc. I really don't believe there's any real danger in feeding them raw. Now, when I give them a raw chicken neck I tend to stress a bit so they only get those once in a while and under very close supervision.
I find it very interesting that Sophie has more energy and seems to feel better on the Canine Health. I found that to be the case with both Jett & Callie. I'm wondering if it was the good quality grains in the Canine Health that contributed to tear stains for my two? Zoe just really doesn't have much of a problem with tear stains no matter what she eats. And I'm hoping that replacing the good quality grains with, as my mom call them, 'stick to your ribs' carbs like sweet potatoes and white potatoes will give them the same energy. I'm wondering if the toy breeds just simply need some starchy carbs and if it's due more to their size or their predisposition to asymptomatic MVD?

Very ironic you posted this because I was going to start a thread today about some new food suggestions. I've been doing Dr. H Canine Health since February. I feed 1/4 cup 2 times a day. On the days I don't have food made I feed them kibble. They were not big on Orijen and the Acana they only like the Grasslands. The problem is I think they are getting a little chunky. Especially Ben. I'm contemplating what food to switch to that is lower protein. I'm not sure though that I'm ready to do raw.

Does anyone have food suggestions that are lower cal and lower protein?
Well G'ma Lucy's Artisan is still a higher protein but all 3 of mine lost weight on it. Callie's the only one that it caused to have so many poops a day. :blush: Might want to give that a try.

I'm glad your three are doing well on raw. I was interested in feeding raw.....but every vet I've been to raises their eyebrow when I mention raw. I'm sure it works for some or most pets, but I just wanted to mention this because the reaction I get from the vets is so strong that it made me hesitate. They tell me that if I really want to feed raw, to zap it in the microwave for a few seconds as that will kill anything bad. I'm sure that defeats some of the purpose of raw, but I just wanted to pass the info along in case anyone wants to talk it over with their personal vet. I generally speak to my vet before making big changes in my pets' diet anyway.
I have been on the fence about raw for years now. However now since going to my new vet who is a traditional vet but has also studied chinese herbs, acupuncture and nutrition in animals, she has convinced me that raw is not only safe, but the healthier way to go. It's always been a source of controversy between traditional vets and holistic vets. But here I have a vet who IS a traditional vet, but has gone the extra mile to take courses in alternative ways to treat our fluffs and she's all for raw and recommends it. I'm thinking it's just like western medicine and holistic medicine. Years ago western medical Dr's would roll their eyes at any suggestion of an alternative, holistic approach. Now some of the top cancer treatment centers in the US are incorporating not only holistic meds and practices, but nutrition as well. I think the same will happen in veterinary medicine too.

However, not every dog can or should be on a raw diet and that's why I'm wanting to do my own, elementary I know, research with not only toy breeds, but breeds known to have a high percentage of liver issues, especially asymptomatic MVD, with varying raw diets. Again, I'm looking to see if there are any noticeable differences between low protein vs. high protein raw, and raw that has starchy carbs in it vs those without.
 

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I have been on the fence about raw for years now. However now since going to my new vet who is a traditional vet but has also studied chinese herbs, acupuncture and nutrition in animals, she has convinced me that raw is not only safe, but the healthier way to go. It's always been a source of controversy between traditional vets and holistic vets. But here I have a vet who IS a traditional vet, but has gone the extra mile to take courses in alternative ways to treat our fluffs and she's all for raw and recommends it. I'm thinking it's just like western medicine and holistic medicine. Years ago western medical Dr's would roll their eyes at any suggestion of an alternative, holistic approach. Now some of the top cancer treatment centers in the US are incorporating not only holistic meds and practices, but nutrition as well. I think the same will happen in veterinary medicine too.
I'm going to our holistic vet this weekend with Meow Meow, and I will ask him for his opinion on this for cats and dogs. I'm very curious what he will say!
 

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Very ironic you posted this because I was going to start a thread today about some new food suggestions. I've been doing Dr. H Canine Health since February. I feed 1/4 cup 2 times a day. On the days I don't have food made I feed them kibble. They were not big on Orijen and the Acana they only like the Grasslands. The problem is I think they are getting a little chunky. Especially Ben. I'm contemplating what food to switch to that is lower protein. I'm not sure though that I'm ready to do raw.

Does anyone have food suggestions that are lower cal and lower protein?

JMO, It might not be the protein, but perhaps the carbs in canine health? I feed mine very low carb food - with moderate fat, and their weight is very good. But of course, all dogs are different.
 
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