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Hi everyone,

We have posted an updated set of rules in every forum area of the site. These rules are now more visible and easier to find than ever so it should take away any ambiguity in terms of how things go around here. Please review and let us know if we missed anything.

Yung
 

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Yung and Admin/Mod Team -- Thank you. Very nice job!! :aktion033:
 

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Hi everyone,

We have posted an updated set of rules in every forum area of the site. These rules are now more visible and easier to find than ever so it should take away any ambiguity in terms of how things go around here. Please review and let us know if we missed anything.

Yung
I may be shooting myself in the foot here, but...

After having read the "Rules" it appears to me there some new ones added that were not included before. The one that stands out for me is:

Soliciting for stud service is not allowed and threads advising the community about available puppies from breeders is NOT allowed.


While I agree soliciting stud service should be a "no,no", the casual and infrequent notice from members about pups available from well known breeders should be. Yes, I know about the flap and the controversy that started this all. However, this forum since it's beginning has been an unbridled treasure trove for people looking for information about Maltese, including available pups. So after so many years of it running smoothly, why "fix" something that wasn't broken to begin with?

For what started last fall as just a change in ownership has evolved to something very different then the Spoiled Maltese I joined in the winter. Unless your a paying member, chat isn't available. At least pictures are still allowed to be posted without paying up. I know there's corporate involvement and your just doing your job, and what your told to do, but it certainly reminds me of MO ( :yucky: ), a place many of us here came from.
 

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Marsha, I'll address the breeders part later today or tomorrow. Thanks for bringing that up. As for the chat, to my understanding, it has ALWAYS been available ONLY to paying members. The only thing different was that Joe use to open it up for free on Saturday nights or something to extent to everyone. With this chat software, we don't have that option.
 

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I may be shooting myself in the foot here, but...

After having read the "Rules" it appears to me there some new ones added that were not included before. The one that stands out for me is:

Soliciting for stud service is not allowed and threads advising the community about available puppies from breeders is NOT allowed.


While I agree soliciting stud service should be a "no,no", the casual and infrequent notice from members about pups available from well known breeders should be. Yes, I know about the flap and the controversy that started this all. However, this forum since it's beginning has been an unbridled treasure trove for people looking for information about Maltese, including available pups. So after so many years of it running smoothly, why "fix" something that wasn't broken to begin with?

For what started last fall as just a change in ownership has evolved to something very different then the Spoiled Maltese I joined in the winter. Unless your a paying member, chat isn't available. At least pictures are still allowed to be posted without paying up. I know there's corporate involvement and your just doing your job, and what your told to do, but it certainly reminds me of MO ( :yucky: ), a place many of us here came from.
Marsha,

This rule seemed to be a result not just of the thread that started all of that, but also of the very legitimate concern that some people have expressed about the very frequent posts from people sharing puppy available pages in the breeder section. While this has not been a concern shared by the whole forum there are a number of members who expressed their concerns about this a thread when Yung solicited our opinions.

I do not think that the intention is to end our ability to help newbies do their research. I do think that this is really a way of clarifying something that Joe had as a rule previously which has not been followed.

Here is a quote of a quote by Joe from years back:

Originally Posted by joe
I dont know what I can do to clarify this, my brain is casually mentioning a breeder who has pups, posting pics of pups or even linking in a signature to a breeder still leaves it up to the person interested in a pup to do some research, ask questions and explore their options before making a decision

a breeder, or someone close to that breeder "advertising" pups can encourage impulse buying because it a "familiar" name at SM, many of you have mentioned how hard it is to say "no" and that is not a healthy decision for you or your pup and if allowed i do believe the forum would be flooded with "pup for sale" threads and then it turns into a market place where problems could arise, ie: "i saw a breeder post a wonderful picture of a pup on SM and I bought it and I am having health issues now, i thought it would be ok because it was on SM"

bottom line is i want to encourage research before a purchase and not provide a place where someone can sign on and buy a Maltese just because they want one and there is one for sale, protecting SM itself is another consideration in this

I know there is a fine line with my "rules" but I dont think I can make them any better, I do want members to find pups but i want to make it harder than signing on and choosing one, I hope you see where I am coming from even though I may not be clear or more specific and as always if anyone is in doubt of a post or considering their own post and not sure, you can PM me.


Frankly, that some posts have been very close to this fine line of advertising and since there is no way to determine if the breeder themselves is encouraging threads advising that a breeder has available puppies is at the request of the breeder, it does make sense to me that a rule like this should be in place.

IMHO, it is not important that we are allowed to post about puppies available. It is important that we can openly discuss breeders and encourage people to do their research. As I read the rules it does seem that we can continue to recommend breeders (i.e. direct people to consider breeders they may contact in their area while not directly linking to their puppies available). This is what I believe would be most helpful to those newbies. We can assist them in their research/education process.
 

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May I make a suggestion? Since some members have said that graphic posts or pictures (such as ones about puppymills, etc.) upset them, can we have a rule requiring us to post a warning about graphic content in the title?
 

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Thank you Yung for your prompt response.

"I'll address the breeders part later today or tomorrow." Hmmm, is this going to be a good thing for SM?? :unsure:

As for the chat issue, I don't recall the explanation you gave regarding the present software ever have been given. Thank you. I just miss getting to know the ladies in that medium.
 

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May I make a suggestion? Since some members have said that graphic posts or pictures (such as ones about puppymills, etc.) upset them, can we have a rule requiring us to post a warning about graphic content in the title?
*sigh* Do we really need more rules? Pretty soon we'll be having to re-reading the rules for every post we make because we can't remember them all.:smstarz:

While I'm very happy with most of these rules, the one about posting about reputable breeders who have available puppies is not one of them. I think we are doing a great disservice to those who are coming to SM to find out how to find a reputable breeder. And I've been talking to several breeders lately who did not want to see that particular rule put into place. And no...the breeders I've talked to are not the few that are always mentioned here on SM. So I'm not sure why there were others who apparently had that concern.

I'm not wanting to hear reasons why certain members feel this rule is needed. I've heard them all. I'm not closed minded, it's just my own opinion even AFTER reading the concerns. So please don't try to 'convince' me yet again.:mellow:
 

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*sigh* Do we really need more rules? Pretty soon we'll be having to re-reading the rules for every post we make because we can't remember them all.:smstarz:

While I'm very happy with most of these rules, the one about posting about reputable breeders who have available puppies is not one of them. I think we are doing a great disservice to those who are coming to SM to find out how to find a reputable breeder. And I've been talking to several breeders lately who did not want to see that particular rule put into place. And no...the breeders I've talked to are not the few that are always mentioned here on SM. So I'm not sure why there were others who apparently had that concern.

I'm not wanting to hear reasons why certain members feel this rule is needed. I've heard them all. I'm not closed minded, it's just my own opinion even AFTER reading the concerns. So please don't try to 'convince' me yet again.:mellow:
AMEN. (big time)
 

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Can we play 20 guesses as to who may have pups available rather than name just one breeder? LOL
 

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On a more serious note...does this mean there will be no posting of rescue dogs available? It seems to me we're headed down a rocky road here.
 

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On a more serious note...does this mean there will be no posting of rescue dogs available? It seems to me we're headed down a rocky road here.
No..the rescue section is staying as is. I don't think we mentioned anything about the Rescue Section.
 

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May I make a suggestion? Since some members have said that graphic posts or pictures (such as ones about puppymills, etc.) upset them, can we have a rule requiring us to post a warning about graphic content in the title?
*sigh* Do we really need more rules? Pretty soon we'll be having to re-reading the rules for every post we make because we can't remember them all.:smstarz:
Did you see this thread, Crystal? Many of our members have previously requested a warning be posted about graphic/upsetting content in posts.

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/72-sm-contributors-forum/104587-i-have-request.html

The other dog forums I belong to have such a rule.
 

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No..the rescue section is staying as is. I don't think we mentioned anything about the Rescue Section.
So people come here because they want help in finding a maltese puppy and no one is allowed to give them any direction except to point them to the AMA website with our hands over our eyes and mouthes. Then let's all jump all over them if they make a mistake. :thumbsup:

never mind. :blink:

You don't have to worry about me, I won't break the rules....but I guess I should go read them, I may already be breaking one...:w00t:.
 

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Thank you for making the rules much clearer than before, Yung!!

Crystal&Zoe;1787012 While I'm very happy with most of these rules said:
On the available puppy from breeders rule, I agree wholeheartedly with Crystal and Pat! I think our members do a great job of including virtually every AMA breeder in posting puppy availability, so long as they have a website that we can link to. In fact, I think new available puppies from the most "talked about" breeders (like Bonnie Palmer and Chrisman) are probably posted less than other breeders. (In Bonnie's case, I think it's probably because available pups are not on her website and she only usually sends pictures privately, not to share online.)

Also, speaking for myself, I am definitely up and over my limit on puppies :blink:, so looking at the available puppies from breeders section is almost like a second picture forum for me. I can't get another, but I can fantasize about unlimited number of gorgeous puppies, can't I?! :wub:
 

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So people come here because they want help in finding a maltese puppy and no one is allowed to give them any direction except to point them to the AMA website with our hands over our eyes and mouthes. Then let's all jump all over them if they make a mistake. :thumbsup:

never mind. :blink:

You don't have to worry about me, I won't break the rules....but I guess I should go read them, I may already be breaking one...:w00t:.
Pat the new rule isn't that we can't point them in the right direction. I read it as no threads of "XYZ Breeder has Puppies Available". I personally do not like those threads to begin with. I don't agree with everyone who is or is not a reputable breeder. In my opinion the fact that who is or is not reputable is very debatable is the reason they decided to put this rule into place. Some breeders it is obvious they are brokers or puppy mills, but others hide it very well. I think the new rule just prevents those questionable (and the reputable) breeders from getting free advertising. Which is, in a way, a form of animal sales - something that is against the rules and everyone agrees on.

I still think that if someone posts asking where they can find a Maltese in certain state we can point them to the breeders we know of in the area. If I'm incorrect in this assumption please let me know Yung. Then the poster can look/google for themselves, research and decide which of the breeders they like. It makes the new person more responsible for their own search.
 

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Did you see this thread, Crystal? Many of our members have previously requested a warning be posted about graphic/upsetting content in posts.

http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/72-sm-contributors-forum/104587-i-have-request.html

The other dog forums I belong to have such a rule.
I think we should definitely be able to post about breeders and even our experience with them, what the heck is it all about if we can't :blink:
Marj, I agree about the warning, I don't want to open a thread and see pictures that will cause me to not sleep for a week, so a warning would be appreciated. I don't think that is to much to ask..
 

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Thank you for the link to the rules Yung.....I read hrough them and I found it to be helpful to have them linked at the top of each forum. VERY easy to find now!!!!

As for the new rule regarding breeders, there was an intensive discussion that all members were invited to participate in via a public thread. I am certain that Yung and the powers that be read through the post and weighed each opinion and position. Then, like any government, board of directors, supervisor, president, etc., they made a decision that they felt would be most beneficial to the community while protecting the integrity of this site.

I do not envy Yung or his people, I am sure this decision was not made lightly nor easily.

As I read the rule, you cannot post that specific puppies are avaliable but can
(1) post your first hand experience concerning a breeder in response to an inquiry
(2) give newbies or others looking for breeders in their area links to the breeder's home page OR simply the name of the breeder.
(3) post about your experience with a breeder

As I read the rule it simply prohibits the posting of puppies for sale.
 

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Thank you for the link to the rules Yung.....I read hrough them and I found it to be helpful to have them linked at the top of each forum. VERY easy to find now!!!!

As for the new rule regarding breeders, there was an intensive discussion that all members were invited to participate in via a public thread. I am certain that Yung and the powers that be read through the post and weighed each opinion and position. Then, like any government, board of directors, supervisor, president, etc., they made a decision that they felt would be most beneficial to the community while protecting the integrity of this site.

I do not envy Yung or his people, I am sure this decision was not made lightly nor easily.

As I read the rule, you cannot post that specific puppies are avaliable but can
(1) post your first hand experience concerning a breeder in response to an inquiry
(2) give newbies or others looking for breeders in their area links to the breeder's home page OR simply the name of the breeder.
(3) post about your experience with a breeder

As I read the rule it simply prohibits the posting of puppies for sale.
Thank you for clarifying that for me. I did not really post in the discussion not sure why, just didn't. But I do believe it is helpful for anyone including me to be able to read about firsthand experience.
 
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