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I'm so sorry, I think I am getting it now, someone is getting a furbaby flown to them? Sorry, I thought it was a General topic. I probably shouldn't have post , but did want to tell Maggie, great post, and maybe make it a sticky.

I don't know who is getting a baby from where, and honest to anything I don't want to make anyone nervous.

For me, I don't think I could live through it, even though it seems, some had no problems. It just wouldn't change, my choice.

I wonder, for those who have had success, meaning everything went well, how was the furbaby? Were they anxious or anything? Does Cargo mean the puppy is in with the luggage?

Why am I still talking? It just wouldn't be my comfort level.

It's a shame, that it seems there is interest in getting puppies from long distances, that the airlines don't hire people, to stay with the puppy, in a seat.

I'm still talking, sorry :blush:
 

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I have a friend who works for one of the major airlines. She said people would be shocked to know the horrific things that have happened to many pets who have flown cargo. We just don't, nor are we going to hear about it. I, personally cannot imagine any pet, especially a dog or cat, not feeling traumatized flying cargo.
 

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I bet it's stressful. But for what it's worth, dogs go through a lot of stressful events. Even the sound of a truck was stressful to Gustave when he first came to us, now he's used to it.

I think there are some cases when it's inevitable. If I was leaving the country and my only option to take my dogs with me was to fly them cargo, I wouldn't leave them behind.

Little anecdote, I once had a betta flown in from Thailand. Bettas lose their color and shine when they are stressed. This beautiful fish was dull and grey when he got here.

Again, it's not preferred. I wouldn't fly my dogs cargo for a vacation, but sometimes you might not have a choice.



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I have a friend who works for one of the major airlines. She said people would be shocked to know the horrific things that have happened to many pets who have flown cargo. We just don't, nor are we going to hear about it. I, personally cannot imagine any pet, especially a dog or cat, not feeling traumatized flying cargo.
I wanted to add that apparently sometimes the damage is done to pets even before they reach cargo ... I mean during the luggage handling process itself. Have you ever been sitting in your seat on a plane, and before waiting for take-off ... watching how luggage itself it being handled before being placed in the cargo section? Yes, airlines might tell you that your pet will be handled with TLC ... but, lets's put it this way ... TLC can have different meanings to different folks.
 

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For me, personally, I would only consider shipping cargo if I thought the temperament of the puppy could handle it. Within the US, I have only shipped with a courier that takes the puppies in the cabin and have not done any international shipping yet.

I am getting a puppy from the Netherlands though in a few months and while the logistics have not been worked out, i will try my hardest to avoid the puppy being flown cargo, even it if costs a fortune to ship with a courier service.
 

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For me, personally, I would only consider shipping cargo if I thought the temperament of the puppy could handle it. Within the US, I have only shipped with a courier that takes the puppies in the cabin and have not done any international shipping yet.

I am getting a puppy from the Netherlands though in a few months and while the logistics have not been worked out, i will try my hardest to avoid the puppy being flown cargo, even it if costs a fortune to ship with a courier service.
I'm pretty sure KLM out of the Netherlands you can fly with a dog in the cabin so fingers crossed you can work something out!

Within the uk you can't travel with dogs in the cabin I so wish we could therefore I wouldn't take Maizy anywhere!!

I think its a v long flight for us let alone a dog, yes they are in a separate hold to the luggage and airconditioned and also pressurised to the same level as the cabin but it must be scary!! Recently I did a delayed New York flight and the engineer came on board to get some bottles of water for the 2 dogs that were in the hold and he sat with them until we could take off, he had dogs himself therefore understood! The couple were relocating to New York and didnt want to leave there dogs very justifiable.

For those that are shopping dogs coming up I pray these little ones cope well and that you are ok my that will be a long day!




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I am not judging anyone for shipping cargo---in fact as I think back on it we did ship a little guy from Germany to England once in cargo---into quarantine---it was the only way to get him there (short flight but we did not want to do it---we could not leave him behind). He was not in good health & did not live a long life after coming out of kennel. This was not due to the shipping but to his health issues.

Going in the cabin is also sometimes not ideal---sometimes the planes are too hot for me & I am not wearing a fur coat---take off time delayed, etc. The cabin crew can make all the difference & sometimes someone of them is not positive toward animals. I have had both kinds. Some of my biggest fights in life have been on airplanes---that is where I have been the "maddest" too! My true personality comes out when I feel the pup is in danger and the crew want to simply "obey the laws."

I think going w. someone is still the safest, but it isn't always possible. Let's all say a prayer for the safety and well-being of those little ones who fly the skies.
 

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Of course there may be times due to life circumstances that someone may need to fly their dog in cargo in order to keep them. But that's different then intentionally purchasing a puppy from the other side of the world when there are options much closer. As to wearing a fur coat and being too warm in cabin, since they don't have an undercoat and more like human hair, they will be warm or cold when we are. But that hair won't protect them in cargo if temperatures are not well monitored.

Puppies enter a fear period somewhere around week 13. We can all imagine the stress flying in cargo would cause. And if a puppy is afraid, air sick, etc... they are not going to eat or drink. We have episodes here on SM where a puppy has been in their own home and gone hypoglycemic. Having a vet who is a stranger try to get a puppy to eat while on a layover is a joke IMO.


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I have a friend who works for one of the major airlines. She said people would be shocked to know the horrific things that have happened to many pets who have flown cargo. We just don't, nor are we going to hear about it. I, personally cannot imagine any pet, especially a dog or cat, not feeling traumatized flying cargo.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who has heard this from friends who also work for major airlines. They all tell me they would never ship a dog in cargo unless there was absolutely no other way.
 

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I was once in the airport and there was a medium sized dog that was being "shipped". That dog was terrified! His eyes were huge and the look was completely heartbreaking. I knew at that moment that shipping a dog was never going to be for me. As someone else said...I wouldn't ship my kid and I'm not going to ship a dog. They are not luggage. Just my opinion.
 

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Alright, we all have our opinions and inside edition stories plus personal preferences. I wouldn't put myself thru the stress of shipping a dog to me and couldn't imagine putting the dog under that kind of stress.

Yet, I'm from another country and it takes 3 flights and 23/24 hours to get there - if I ever want to move back my dogs will go with me. If cargo were to be the only option It then would be.

Let's we all respect and understand other people preferences even when it goes against our own. There has to be a line between being passionate about something and being annoying my good people!



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I did communicate w/your Korean breeder before discovering that there was an export in Europe from this line who had been bred & I could get one of those puppies w/out shipping. I found the breeder in Korea to be easy to work with, but the distance was prohibitive for ME. When Kitzel developed issues w/walking I tried to find out if other puppies from this line had issues & suddenly the breeder's English was not good enough to communicate w/me. I speak from first-hand personal experience.
Sandi I truly appreciate your sharing this. This is what so many of us have been concerned about when going to a breeder from another country and there could be communication problems, real or used as an excuse. As well as how can a breeder who is half way around the world really help you? And to my knowledge, no one has ever been to either of these breeders place. And I'm not even sure if anyone has actually met one of the breeders personally. I find it disconcerting that both of these breeders have puppies available at all times. It doesn't seem that there is a waiting list like there can be with many other breeders. Has anyone tried to purchase from either of these breeders and been told they have no puppies at the moment but have a litter planned for 6 months from now? And since there has been very little true contact with these breeders, has anyone ever found out what happens to their retirees? What happens to any puppies that don't get sold? I'm trying to be careful here to not slander any names or be disrespectful of other countries and what is deemed acceptable practices. But does anyone know what is customary for show breeders in Korea? It may very well be just like here in the US or even better. I just don't know.
 

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I wish it were true, but it is unrealistic to think nighttime has anything to do with when a puppy will sleep, esp on a plane in cargo. Shoot, my new puppies slept day & were up often at night while they were adjusting to first leaving the liter. And they were with me.
 

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I had Boomer flown to me from his breeder he was 18 weeks old. He had to change planes in Houston and that resulted in a 5 hour delay. I was to pick him up in Atlanta at 12pm which was changed to 5pm. The petsafe program kept me informed of his whereabouts and that he was given water and was in there kennel area during the delay.
Luckily he arrived safe, happy and clean, I would say he was in better shape than I was. He still uses his kennel that he traveled in, it's his favorite sleeping place.
 

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I have really mixed emotions about this subject.

As many of you know, I was one of the top Lhasa breeders for many years and I often shipped puppies (at least 6 months old) overseas and in the U.S. Also most of my top show dogs were flown (with their hander) to shows every weekend and often in the cargo section.

I have shipped puppies to Europe, South America, the Phillipines, Thailand and Japan a number of times and have never had a problem. Also, I've had dogs shipped to me from these same places without a problem.

Gambler (Mult. BIS, BISS Ch. LynnLaine's The Gambler) was shown as a top winning Special for more than 4 years. He HATED being stuffed into a bag and flown inside the cabin. But, when shipped in cargo, he would sleep, rest and come out of the plane happy and ready to show. On the other hand when Roulette (Mult BIS, BISS Ch. LynnLaine's Roulette) was being shown as a Special for almost 3 years, she much preferred going into the cabin with her handler.

As far as the 3 Malts I have, I don't believe that Lacie, and most especially Tilly, would do well in cargo and have never (and won't) fly them in cargo -- only in-cabin with me. Secret, on the other hand, has been flown in cargo several times -- both in her show career and when Bonnie shipped her to me and she seems to do just fine. But, still I prefer having her in cabin with me.

So -- I do believe that most fluffs do OK in cargo -- some even prefer it. But, when possible I will fly my current fluffs in cabin with me.
 

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I have really mixed emotions about this subject.

As many of you know, I was one of the top Lhasa breeders for many years and I often shipped puppies (at least 6 months old) overseas and in the U.S. Also most of my top show dogs were flown (with their hander) to shows every weekend and often in the cargo section.

I have shipped puppies to Europe, South America, the Phillipines, Thailand and Japan a number of times and have never had a problem. Also, I've had dogs shipped to me from these same places without a problem.

Gambler (Mult. BIS, BISS Ch. LynnLaine's The Gambler) was shown as a top winning Special for more than 4 years. He HATED being stuffed into a bag and flown inside the cabin. But, when shipped in cargo, he would sleep, rest and come out of the plane happy and ready to show. On the other hand when Roulette (Mult BIS, BISS Ch. LynnLaine's Roulette) was being shown as a Special for almost 3 years, she much preferred going into the cabin with her handler.

As far as the 3 Malts I have, I don't believe that Lacie, and most especially Tilly, would do well in cargo and have never (and won't) fly them in cargo -- only in-cabin with me. Secret, on the other hand, has been flown in cargo several times -- both in her show career and when Bonnie shipped her to me and she seems to do just fine. But, still I prefer having her in cabin with me.

So -- I do believe that most fluffs do OK in cargo -- some even prefer it. But, when possible I will fly my current fluffs in cabin with me.
Thanks for this post Lynn! I agree with you, of course if I was flying with my girls, they would go in the cabin with me.

But many people are trying to give me a hard time because I'm having my fluff shipped in the cargo, and honestly, it's getting really annoying...
There's no difference in them being in the cargo than in the cabin with the exception that they would be alone, because like already I said the temperature is controlled in this airplane. If it wasn't, Korean Air wouldn't be allow her to be shipped. Narea Lee has NEVER lost a dog. And she has done this MANY times and all the dogs do just fine.


I remember when I moved to Panama from Florida, Dolce couldn't come on the same plane as me. The airline informed me the cargo would be too hot and they wouldn't risk an animal's life. So he came separately on a plane that had a special place for pets with controlled temperature. Of course, the flight was much shorter than it will be for Kimmy, and he did fine. Kelly was shipped to my sister in Venezuela when I bought her, and she flew by herself in a special place for pets too. Most airlines have stopped letting dogs come on there if there's a chance of them dying, and I know this because of the multiple times I've traveled overseas with my dogs. When Kelly came to Panama with me, she did go in the cabin which is obvisouly preferred because I can be right next to her. But really, she's not allowed out of her carrier anyways, so what's the difference with her being in a place with air-conditioning by herself? Most of you who keep saying the temperature isn't controlled are obviously uninformed about Korean Air, Narae Lee, and the travel agency she uses that ships dogs WORLD WIDE for over 15 years. They have a good reputation for a reason, and the airline would not let a dog go on their if the plane didn't have this. If not, all the dogs that she's sent would have arrived dead!
 

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As I've said, in my opinion, it really depends on temperament. I've had some bomb proof puppies that I know would just look at it as one big adventure and more people people to say hello to while I've had others that I feel shipping cargo could do some permanent fear damage. It boils down to being able to trust the breeder that she/he can assess the individual puppy and make the correct decisions that will benefit that pup.

I don't think it is our place to tell people they should look closer to home to avoid shipping in cargo.
 

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Marisol -- Again -- I've probably shipped more fluffs than anyone else here on SM. And I've shipped both internationally and in the U.S. I used to bring in Lhasas to be held for a few months for breeding and I used to send Lhasas to Thailand all the time to be shown all over Asia and then they were shipped back to me -- usually into Minneapolis, although I shipped into LAX, JFK, and Miami and Houston from overseas and in the U.S. from whatever airport I was near. At certain times of year in various locations, you have to be very cautious of the temperatures -- but the airlines won't allow you to ship fluffs when the temps are too hot or too cold.

If you've never been involved in shipping a dog, either here in the U.S. or especially internationally, then what you have to say is just speculation. I have real, actual experience and have NEVER had a issue and wouldn't hesitate to ship fluffs if needed.

Marisol -- I'm sorry that you're getting so much "heat" for getting your puppy from Narae Lee. I know that she uses a shipping service that is first rate and that she's never lost or had a problem with a fluff that she's shipped.

Personally I can't wait to see pictures of your new baby.
 

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When I got Milo from the UK - I did fly over to get him, but he was not allowed to stay with me in the cabin. They took him when we checked in (and I could hear him cry and cry :() and put him with some other luggage in a tiny "room" beside the bathroom in the plane - still technically in the cabin, and the flight attendants could go check on him but I was still terrified. I know that now this airline is not allowed to do this any more - all dogs must fly in cargo.

Personally, I wouldn't let him fly in cargo - I don't think he would cope well - maybe I am wrong, but I wouldn't take the risk. I actually spoke to his breeder about this not too long ago - she also said it would depend on the temperament of the puppy/dog.
 
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