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I doubt all injuries or deaths of pets have happened while in the cargo area of the plane ... I think it can happen while a pet is being loaded or unloaded into and out of the cargo hold.

Unfortunately it does happen, and airlines are named ... just read the links Maggie provided.

Below is a link that I think provides a lot of good information and tips for those who choose to consider airline cargo for their pets.

http://www.wikihow.com/Minimize-Risk-to-a-Pet-in-the-Cargo-Area-of-an-Airplaner

 

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I doubt all injuries or deaths of pets have happened while in the cargo area of the plane ... I think it can happen while a pet is being loaded or unloaded into and out of the cargo hold.

Unfortunately it does happen, and airlines are named ... just read the links Maggie provided.

Below is a link that I think provides a lot of good information and tips for those who choose to consider airline cargo for their pets.

http://www.wikihow.com/Minimize-Risk-to-a-Pet-in-the-Cargo-Area-of-an-Airplaner

Well, now on my i-Pad the link won't show up for me. It did on my Mac. If you google in ... How to minimize risk in the cargo area of an airplane ... the link shlould come up for anyone interested in reading it.
 

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Marisol -- Again -- I've probably shipped more fluffs than anyone else here on SM. And I've shipped both internationally and in the U.S. I used to bring in Lhasas to be held for a few months for breeding and I used to send Lhasas to Thailand all the time to be shown all over Asia and then they were shipped back to me -- usually into Minneapolis, although I shipped into LAX, JFK, and Miami and Houston from overseas and in the U.S. from whatever airport I was near. At certain times of year in various locations, you have to be very cautious of the temperatures -- but the airlines won't allow you to ship fluffs when the temps are too hot or too cold.

If you've never been involved in shipping a dog, either here in the U.S. or especially internationally, then what you have to say is just speculation. I have real, actual experience and have NEVER had a issue and wouldn't hesitate to ship fluffs if needed.

Marisol -- I'm sorry that you're getting so much "heat" for getting your puppy from Narae Lee. I know that she uses a shipping service that is first rate and that she's never lost or had a problem with a fluff that she's shipped.

Personally I can't wait to see pictures of your new baby.
:goodpost:
Lynn, thank you so much for sharing your experience as a show breeder who has shipped her fluffs internationally. I tried to explain earlier on here how this is done by show breeders all the time, and some people were contradicting me, saying they would only do it with couriers. I'm glad that a show breeder has given a positive testimony of her experience. I hope it gives people something to think about before they speculate and talk. Thanks again for this post!
 

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As I've said, in my opinion, it really depends on temperament. I've had some bomb proof puppies that I know would just look at it as one big adventure and more people people to say hello to while I've had others that I feel shipping cargo could do some permanent fear damage. It boils down to being able to trust the breeder that she/he can assess the individual puppy and make the correct decisions that will benefit that pup.

I don't think it is our place to tell people they should look closer to home to avoid shipping in cargo.
Good post! Although, I wish everyone would apply what's in red! :mellow:
 

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:goodpost:
Lynn, thank you so much for sharing your experience as a show breeder who has shipped her fluffs internationally. I tried to explain earlier on here how this is done by show breeders all the time, and some people were contradicting me, saying they would only do it with couriers. I'm glad that a show breeder has given a positive testimony of her experience. I hope it gives people something to think about before they speculate and talk. Thanks again for this post!
Good post! Although, I wish everyone would apply what's in red! :mellow:
I think people have just been sharing their thoughts as to what they would do ... and, there is nothing wrong with that.

And, if one has time to go back and read posts from at least one SM thread .... one will read that at least one well known breeder (by name) will not ship their puppies via cargo ... they will only arrange for someone to fly with the puppy in the airplane cabin with them, in order to deliver the puppy to the new owner/family.

I am not judging anyone personally. However, I will judge airlines by their safety records for both humans and pets. The facts speak for themself. The facts are not speculation and talk ... the facts are the facts, period.
 

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I think people have just been sharing their thoughts as to what they would do ... and, there is nothing wrong with that.

And, if one has time to go back and read posts from at least one SM thread .... one will read that at least one well known breeder (by name) will not ship their puppies via cargo ... they will only arrange for someone to fly with the puppy in the airplane cabin with them, in order to deliver the puppy to the new owner/family.

I am not judging anyone personally. However, I will judge airlines by their safety records for both humans and pets. The facts speak for themself. The facts are not speculation and talk ... the facts are the facts, period.
What facts? Tell me of one person who has shipped their dog from Korean Air and it came to them dead? Not all airplanes are the same, or airlines...

I never said there was anything wrong with people sharing their thoughts and what they would do. Nor was I even referring to you. I don't mind people sharing experiences. But others have said hurtful and judgmental things, such as calling me and someone else on here "cruel" and "irresponsible" for shipping our fluffs. And I do wish they would keep to themselves such negative comments. It doesn't affect me, or hurt me, I'm just annoyed lol.
But I know this other person on here is very hurt by these commentaries and is feeling attacked.
 

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What facts? Tell me of one person who has shipped their dog from Korean Air and it came to them dead? Not all airplanes are the same, or airlines...

I never said there was anything wrong with people sharing their thoughts and what they would do. Nor was I even referring to you. I don't mind people sharing experiences. But others have said hurtful and judgmental things, such as calling me and someone else on here "cruel" and "irresponsible" for shipping our fluffs. And I do wish they would keep to themselves such negative comments. It doesn't affect me, or hurt me, I'm just annoyed lol.
But I know this other person on here is very hurt by these commentaries and is feeling attacked.
I could look closer to home for Marina's new show puppy and not go overseas but I want a puppy from one of the top breeders and it will require the puppy to have to travel to the US. It's not a maltese but is another toy breed so will have to be just as careful.
 

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It is my very humble opinion that it depends very much on the airline. I read something today about dogs shipped in cargo while their people were onboard. But that was United Airlines. I will no way fly United. If I have to pay more for another airline, I will, to avoid United. Honestly, we can never be one hundred percent secure, but I think that if you want to send a dog in cargo, it matters very much on the reputation of the airline.
 

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What facts? Tell me of one person who has shipped their dog from Korean Air and it came to them dead? Not all airplanes are the same, or airlines...

I never said there was anything wrong with people sharing their thoughts and what they would do. Nor was I even referring to you. I don't mind people sharing experiences. But others have said hurtful and judgmental things, such as calling me and someone else on here "cruel" and "irresponsible" for shipping our fluffs. And I do wish they would keep to themselves such negative comments. It doesn't affect me, or hurt me, I'm just annoyed lol.
But I know this other person on here is very hurt by these commentaries and is feeling attacked.
I was not referring to Korean Air. I was talking about the facts of specific airlines in the US ... the names of the airlines, with injuries and deaths that have occurred on an annual basis ... the names of the airlines and details for each airline are listed in one of the links Maggie provided in her initial post.

I totally agree with you that not all airlines are the same. In fact ... and I hate to say this ... but, I think there are foreign airlines that are putting most of our US airlines to shame right now.

Please know that in no way am I judging you, nor anyone else ... I only wish you the best. :tender:

And, just in case you don't know it ... I love Lynn. (she knows that) And, although I haven't met Stacy in person yet, I know she is a wonderful breeder of Maltese.

For myself though, Snowball will never travel in cargo. I understand why Sue, Sandi, and others won't allow their fluffs in cargo either. We can all have a difference of opinions ... and, that is okay. Again, no judgments.
 

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What facts? Tell me of one person who has shipped their dog from Korean Air and it came to them dead? Not all airplanes are the same, or airlines...

I never said there was anything wrong with people sharing their thoughts and what they would do. Nor was I even referring to you. I don't mind people sharing experiences. But others have said hurtful and judgmental things, such as calling me and someone else on here "cruel" and "irresponsible" for shipping our fluffs. And I do wish they would keep to themselves such negative comments. It doesn't affect me, or hurt me, I'm just annoyed lol.
But I know this other person on here is very hurt by these commentaries and is feeling attacked.
No matter how anyone of us may feel, I think we will all be hoping that your puppy arrives safe and secure. I think that being in Panama limits your choices more than if you lived in, say Texas. I also understand that Korean Air has a very good reputation with shipping puppies. I, for one, am looking forward to hearing your happy report when your lovely puppy arrives. :wub:
 

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Well, I think it's great that you are all trying to pass on information you have read, and I know that this is referred to those of us who are having our puppies shipped from Shinemore in Korea.

Truth is that Narae Lee is a very reputable breeder for a reason. She has never lost a puppy and she wouldn't risk her good reputation. Korean Airlines has a cargo hold special for live animals. It is well lit, air conditioned, and heated. She uses a special service called "First Class Pets" to ship the dogs for the past 15 years. Also, the puppies fly during their night time and they sleep through it all. Dogs have to travel world wide to able to compete in dog shows, and most of them have to go in the cargo anyways. Just thought I'd point that out... :)
Marisol - I'm sorry if you feel you're being attacked in some way. I certainly didn't intend to do that and I don't even think I realized you were getting a new puppy from Korea or if I knew it wasn't in my mind posting here. I was responding to a thread that Maggie started that as far as I could tell didn't mention anything about shipping dogs from Korea. I personally chose to get a Maltese near me and rejected a couple of dogs that could be sent to me FROM IN THE STATES because they were going to send them by cargo. As I said, my dog is like my child and no child of mine is flying in cargo. My neighbor had her dog shipped from Florida and it was a nightmare. Was supposed to be "handled with care" and delivered to some sort of concierge type desk. Well they couldn't find the dog for her for a couple of hours and then she was sent to a huge cargo terminal where she was finally united with the pup, who was frantic at that point. As she was putting on the harness she brought, the puppy leapt from her hands and took off next to the tarmac. She had assumed someone would be personally handling the dog but the dog was treated like cargo. I wouldn't wish this on anyone else and yes it didn't happen to me but happened to my very close friend. And as far as it not happening to me...just because me dog hasn't gotten sick from Jerky treats from China doesn't mean I'm going to feed them to him. We make our own choices and last I heard, this is a forum where our opinions could be given, pro and con.
 

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Marisol, please understand that no one here wishes you anything but the very, very best. This, I thought, was a discussion about shipping dogs---and you happened to be in the road & got hit by the truck. I spoke only from my own personal experience (which isn't small) and others have spoken from theirs---you included. As Sue said this is a forum where we can voice pro & con---that is how all subjects here are handled. Whoever the other person is, I would say the very same to them.

We will all celebrate your new baby! I, for one, will be praying for her trip too---as I am sure so many of us will. Please don't feel a personal attack against you.
 

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Great post. I flew up to Newark to meet my Breeder and fly back the same day with my little one. I just couldn't do it shipping or even having someone else travel with my little Boo. There have been so many news reports of pet disasters on planes this year -particularly with United Airlines. Now all of our vacations are driving because Zach my wheaten has to come too :).

Personally, I hate to travel on long flights and it is equally as stressful on our little babies.
 

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Oh Marisol, I am so sorry. I truly am. I've been a member, I think for 4 or 5 years, not sure. But I haven't been on much. I just saw the topic, thought it was a great one, so I decided to share my thoughts.

Also Marisol, I promise you, please please, don't have your feelings hurt, or feel you are being judged, or breeders are, no. It may feel that way to you, but I promise you, from the heart, when you have your darling baby in your arms, every member, will be jumping for joy, and on the edge of their seats to see pictures.

There are topics, that hit all our hearts. I guess they call them "hot" topics.

Perhaps, I had no right in posting, since I have been away, but I promise you, no one is judging anyone.

I still feel the same, but it's the topic, it's not you, any breeder. I hope that makes sense.

It's almost like when are babies are spayed and neutered, I know myself, my heart is in my mouth, we all can't help but be nervous, we don't breath, till we get the call, that our babies are all done and doing fine. Even though, there have been success after success, we can't help, but be nervous. Oh, maybe it's not the same thing, but maybe how some of us feel inside about different topics, maybe even stronger, but honestly, I have read all the post, and it comes from everyone's heart, those that are okay with it, and those, that are not. So, read them again maybe, oh not to change your mind, not at all, but it may help you to see, that no, no one is judging anyone.

I apologize, as I have been away from SM, but not long enough to know, that it's the topic, that people feel strongly about one way or another and from the heart.

There are several topics that come up, and people feel strongly, out of love, one way or another.

I too love Lynn dearly, and she probably knew how I felt, even before I posted. (Love you Lynn).

So Marisol, please take it with the mindset, that it's the topic, that people feel strong about, again, one way or another.

I think the bottom line and the common denominator is always, love of the furbabies.

No, sweetheart, as I posted earlier, I could not do it, and don't think I could live through it. Truly. I don't have any links to post, never experienced it, but for me, on this topic, there is no way in the world I could. Even if it were a 15 minute flight.

When my baby Ana was spayed, the tech had to walk me to the door, as the tears were just flowing down my face.

I don't think that makes me an over reactive Mommy.

I'm not sure I am helping at all. The one thing I did want to get across to you, is please, don't think you are being judged, or anyone else is.

Now, I can guarantee you this, when it's time, for your baby to be spayed, every member, who has posted on this topic, will be there for you, and post prayers, and well wishes for you, and will be there for you the entire day, even after.

I hope this helps to understand where the members are coming from.
 

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I'm the one who said it was cruel and inhuman, imo, to ship a puppy who is approx. 2 lbs give or take, 15 plus hours in another thread. Especially when there are so many other options that would require a shorter flight. (And I'm speaking for pet purposes here. I understand there are times when a show breeder needs to expand their gene pool and may need to get a dog from another country.) And I still feel that way. I don't see how my feeling this or stating this is personally attacking someone. And I do apologize if it was taken as a personal attack. I treat my fluffs as I would skin children, had God blessed me with skin-children. And I would never ship a 8-12 month old human baby in cargo. And that's how I feel about shipping a tiny puppy who does run a higher risk then larger puppies for going hypoglycemic and has no protective undercoat to protect them from hot or cold temperatures if the environmental controls are not regulated properly.

That being said, the only reason I'm even taking the time to post is because I do care and I don't want to see that puppy be traumatized and have behavioral issues or worse. I don't want someone to arrive at the airport to pick up their baby to be met with devastating news. And I will be praying for that baby in hopes they arrive safely without issue. And I will also be there to help support any future questions or concerns, as well as celebrate any milestone or achievement once that baby is part of the SM family.

Lynn I understand what you are saying. But times have changed. And sadly, so have people. People as a general rule are less responsible, less caring and less dependable in their jobs then they were 10 years ago. And even less then 15 and 20 years ago. It just keeps getting worse. Look at bullying. We've had bullies forever. But not to the extremes we see today. And sadly, there are certain people who like to bully and traumatize tiny, helpless creatures. When I have friends who work in the airline industry that aren't even real animal lovers say they would never ship a dog in cargo, then I feel it's pretty important to listen. Maybe I should drop a line to 20/20 or one of those news shows who likes to go in with hidden cameras and ask them to film what it's actually like to fly in cargo as well as what it's like for the animal during layovers and getting off and onto the plane. We may all be very surprised at what we see. Myself included. It may be better then what I've been told.

Just wanted to add, that with family and good friends there are times when you can not support a decision you feel is a bad decision. You can't support it because you do care. But it doesn't mean you don't or won't support and love and care for that friend or even the results of that decision. Friends and family are always there.
 

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I'm the one who said it was cruel and inhuman, imo, to ship a puppy who is approx. 2 lbs give or take, 15 plus hours in another thread. Especially when there are so many other options that would require a shorter flight. (And I'm speaking for pet purposes here. I understand there are times when a show breeder needs to expand their gene pool and may need to get a dog from another country.) And I still feel that way. I don't see how my feeling this or stating this is personally attacking someone. And I do apologize if it was taken as a personal attack. I treat my fluffs as I would skin children, had God blessed me with skin-children. And I would never ship a 8-12 month old human baby in cargo. And that's how I feel about shipping a tiny puppy who does run a higher risk then larger puppies for going hypoglycemic and has no protective undercoat to protect them from hot or cold temperatures if the environmental controls are not regulated properly.

That being said, the only reason I'm even taking the time to post is because I do care and I don't want to see that puppy be traumatized and have behavioral issues or worse. I don't want someone to arrive at the airport to pick up their baby to be met with devastating news. And I will be praying for that baby in hopes they arrive safely without issue. And I will also be there to help support any future questions or concerns, as well as celebrate any milestone or achievement once that baby is part of the SM family.

Lynn I understand what you are saying. But times have changed. And sadly, so have people. People as a general rule are less responsible, less caring and less dependable in their jobs then they were 10 years ago. And even less then 15 and 20 years ago. It just keeps getting worse. Look at bullying. We've had bullies forever. But not to the extremes we see today. And sadly, there are certain people who like to bully and traumatize tiny, helpless creatures. When I have friends who work in the airline industry that aren't even real animal lovers say they would never ship a dog in cargo, then I feel it's pretty important to listen. Maybe I should drop a line to 20/20 or one of those news shows who likes to go in with hidden cameras and ask them to film what it's actually like to fly in cargo as well as what it's like for the animal during layovers and getting off and onto the plane. We may all be very surprised at what we see. Myself included. It may be better then what I've been told.

Just wanted to add, that with family and good friends there are times when you can not support a decision you feel is a bad decision. You can't support it because you do care. But it doesn't mean you don't or won't support and love and care for that friend or even the results of that decision. Friends and family are always there.
:goodpost:
 

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I have to say that I would never send a pet in cargo. It doesn't matter the size, age, or a dog or cat. I would never do it. I have heard too many horrible stories. I'm pretty sure if people could ask their beautiful animals ahead of time how they would feel about it, they probably would not like the idea. Its important to remember our fluff babies do not have a voice and they rely on us humans to speak up and make the best decisions possible to ensure their safety.
 

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Marisol, I'm sorry for the way this thread has gone down.

Sounds like you've weighed all your options and done all your research. We all know you're a great fluff mom.

Hoping the flight is easy on your little one and she sleeps through most of it.
Marisol didn't start this thread. Maggie started it specifically to discuss shipping dogs in cargo. So from what I can tell, this thread has discussed exactly as the thread is titled, "Shipping your fluff?" :thumbsup:
 
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