so frustrated, opinions please

3051 Views 45 Replies 18 Participants Last post by fach, Aug 19, 2005

fach

Discussion Starter · Jul 31, 2005

2

I am so frustrated with Dixies housetraining. I am really trying to be patient, but not getting beyond this point. heres the long and the short of it followed by a couple questions.
Dixie doesn't object to being unclean [ie; covered with pee] she will pe in the crate, pen, anywhere and has no problem walking in it, etc.

She knows the word pee pee. If I take her outdoors to her spot and ask her to go pee pee and she is capable, she will. But, she will also go anywhere, anytime the urge comes upon her. So, atleast we have a connection with the word.

She has a playpen [wire] for daytime, crate for sleeping.

Liver treats everytime she pees outside plus much praise.

breeder and vet instructed free food and water 24/7. it has been impossible for me to train this way [tried

] so I put her on three meals per day and water all the time except in crate from 11pm till 6;00 am. The meals times are fine. She isn't much interested in food and will usually only eat if i feed her. Bad habit, but ok with me.

UTI test came out normal.

been here four weeks.

she is 18 weeks old.

She still piddles all over when excited about being picked up, etc. But not the worrysome "leaking" she experienced in the begining. Must have been nerves about new home, etc.

I have read she should be reducing the fequency of urination by this point, but she still pees little amounts all day long. I bet she goes at a minimum 2 times per hour. Typically more.

Ok, heres the questions.
Two books suggest water should be available only during meals. In Dixies case about 7am, 4pm, 11pm. This isnt enough in my mind. Does this sound ok?

And last question. i was considering giving up the play pen and using the smaller crate during the day instead. Will it help? I didn't think so as she pees in it at night anyway, but it is smaller then the pen. By the way it is a large crate for fifty pound k-9. I put the barrier up to make it small.

Sorry so long. Wanted to give facts. Helpppppppp.......

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k/c mom

· #2 · Jul 31, 2005

Gosh, bless your heart!! I know how frustrating it can be. Kallie was stubborn and hard to train. It took a full year for her to finally "get it"... yet Catcher was trained much sooner than that.

What concerns me is the frequency in which she is going. Did they do a culture, etc.? It just seems to suggest a UTI that she is going so often.

IMHO, the board expert on this subject is JMM. If she doesn't see this post, if I were you, I would PM her.

LexiAndNikkisMom

· #3 · Jul 31, 2005

I think she might have too much space. Try keeping her in a crate while you are gone. Start with just enough space for her to lay down, you can use a divider or something to block the back part. After a few weeks you can give her a little bit more space. If you give her to much space in the beginning she will sleep on one side and pee on the other.

fach

Discussion Starter · #4 · Jul 31, 2005

Originally posted by Fach@Jul 31 2005, 09:53 AM

I am so frustrated with Dixies housetraining. I am really trying to be patient, but not getting beyond this point. heres the long and the short of it followed by a couple questions.
Dixie doesn't object to being unclean [ie; covered with pee] she will pe in the crate, pen, anywhere and has no problem walking in it, etc.

She knows the word pee pee. If I take her outdoors to her spot and ask her to go pee pee and she is capable, she will. But, she will also go anywhere, anytime the urge comes upon her. So, atleast we have a connection with the word.

She has a playpen [wire] for daytime, crate for sleeping.

Liver treats everytime she pees outside plus much praise.

breeder and vet instructed free food and water 24/7. it has been impossible for me to train this way [tried

] so I put her on three meals per day and water all the time except in crate from 11pm till 6;00 am. The meals times are fine. She isn't much interested in food and will usually only eat if i feed her. Bad habit, but ok with me.

UTI test came out normal.

been here four weeks.

she is 18 weeks old.

She still piddles all over when excited about being picked up, etc. But not the worrysome "leaking" she experienced in the begining. Must have been nerves about new home, etc.

I have read she should be reducing the fequency of urination by this point, but she still pees little amounts all day long. I bet she goes at a minimum 2 times per hour. Typically more.

Ok, heres the questions.
Two books suggest water should be available only during meals. In Dixies case about 7am, 4pm, 11pm. This isnt enough in my mind. Does this sound ok?

And last question. i was considering giving up the play pen and using the smaller crate during the day instead. Will it help? I didn't think so as she pees in it at night anyway, but it is smaller then the pen. By the way it is a large crate for fifty pound k-9. I put the barrier up to make it small.

Sorry so long. Wanted to give facts. Helpppppppp.......
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=86151

[/QUOTE]
The urine culture came back normal so it's not a UTI. I use the barrier in the crate in the evening, but she still pees. I am home all day and i am very dilligent about the housetraining. I just don't know what to do. I could use the crate in the day too if need be. I bought the pen b/c I thought she needed more space during the day when i cant watch her close enough. She pees so fast it is almost over before I can react. How about the limiting water. Any in put there?

fach

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jul 31, 2005

Originally posted by Fach+Jul 31 2005, 11:43 AM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Fach

Click to expand...

@Jul 31 2005, 09:53 AM

I am so frustrated with Dixies housetraining. I am really trying to be patient, but not getting beyond this point. heres the long and the short of it followed by a couple questions.
Dixie doesn't object to being unclean [ie; covered with pee] she will pe in the crate, pen, anywhere and has no problem walking in it, etc.

She knows the word pee pee. If I take her outdoors to her spot and ask her to go pee pee and she is capable, she will. But, she will also go anywhere, anytime the urge comes upon her. So, atleast we have a connection with the word.

She has a playpen [wire] for daytime, crate for sleeping.

Liver treats everytime she pees outside plus much praise.

breeder and vet instructed free food and water 24/7. it has been impossible for me to train this way [tried

] so I put her on three meals per day and water all the time except in crate from 11pm till 6;00 am. The meals times are fine. She isn't much interested in food and will usually only eat if i feed her. Bad habit, but ok with me.

UTI test came out normal.

been here four weeks.

she is 18 weeks old.

She still piddles all over when excited about being picked up, etc. But not the worrysome "leaking" she experienced in the begining. Must have been nerves about new home, etc.

I have read she should be reducing the fequency of urination by this point, but she still pees little amounts all day long. I bet she goes at a minimum 2 times per hour. Typically more.

Ok, heres the questions.
Two books suggest water should be available only during meals. In Dixies case about 7am, 4pm, 11pm. This isnt enough in my mind. Does this sound ok?

And last question. i was considering giving up the play pen and using the smaller crate during the day instead. Will it help? I didn't think so as she pees in it at night anyway, but it is smaller then the pen. By the way it is a large crate for fifty pound k-9. I put the barrier up to make it small.

Sorry so long. Wanted to give facts. Helpppppppp.......
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=86151

Click to expand...

The urine culture came back normal so it's not a UTI. I use the barrier in the crate in the evening, but she still pees. I am home all day and i am very dilligent about the housetraining. I just don't know what to do. I could use the crate in the day too if need be. I bought the pen b/c I thought she needed more space during the day when i cant watch her close enough. She pees so fast it is almost over before I can react. How about the limiting water. Any in put there?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=86169
[/B][/QUOTE]
forgot to add the pen is not that large. i purposely didn't use all the panels to keep it small enough for training purposes,

littlepeanut

· #6 · Jul 31, 2005

I don't like to limit water. They are just so small and maybe I'm just too paranoid, but I wouldn't want to throw their body's balance out of whack. Maybe you could just take a few steps back and stick with only the crate for a while. Then when she gets that down pat, bump her up to the x pen. Can I ask how much space she has in the crate? Tic used to poop in the crate and the trainer I spoke with said that he had too much space (even though I though it was a small space).

fach

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jul 31, 2005

Originally posted by littlepeanut@Jul 31 2005, 11:48 AM
I don't like to limit water. They are just so small and maybe I'm just too paranoid, but I wouldn't want to throw their body's balance out of whack. Maybe you could just take a few steps back and stick with only the crate for a while. Then when she gets that down pat, bump her up to the x pen. Can I ask how much space she has in the crate? Tic used to poop in the crate and the trainer I spoke with said that he had too much space (even though I though it was a small space).
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=86171

[/QUOTE]
It is a large crate for fifty lb. dogs. I wanted extra room for when she is grown and confined. We plan to only use the crate when going out for errands, dinner etc. as i am at home most of the time. The crate came with a barrier which I have used to limit her space to enough to lay down and turn around. very small. As i stated before, as of now, she is only useing the crate for sleeping at night. i too worry about limiting water.

doctorcathy

· #8 · Jul 31, 2005

2

i was reading your post, so you feed her at 7am, 4pm, and 11pm?

11pm is WAAY too late. because she probably potties at night in her crate, right?

the latest we fed the dogs was 8pm, and that was when we would go to sleep at 11pm.

take her out on more walks so that she's more tired. or play a lot too. while you're away she'll sleep.

then you dont have to worry aabout pee or poo whne you get home.

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Tyler's Sis

· #9 · Jul 31, 2005

If you use puppy pads, when she does something in the house, you can get some in a napkin and smother it on the pad. (I know it sounds gross)Then she'll smell it and go on the pad.

fach

Discussion Starter · #10 · Jul 31, 2005

Originally posted by Fach@Jul 31 2005, 09:53 AM

I am so frustrated with Dixies housetraining. I am really trying to be patient, but not getting beyond this point. heres the long and the short of it followed by a couple questions.
Dixie doesn't object to being unclean [ie; covered with pee] she will pe in the crate, pen, anywhere and has no problem walking in it, etc.

She knows the word pee pee. If I take her outdoors to her spot and ask her to go pee pee and she is capable, she will. But, she will also go anywhere, anytime the urge comes upon her. So, atleast we have a connection with the word.

She has a playpen [wire] for daytime, crate for sleeping.

Liver treats everytime she pees outside plus much praise.

breeder and vet instructed free food and water 24/7. it has been impossible for me to train this way [tried

] so I put her on three meals per day and water all the time except in crate from 11pm till 6;00 am. The meals times are fine. She isn't much interested in food and will usually only eat if i feed her. Bad habit, but ok with me.

UTI test came out normal.

been here four weeks.

she is 18 weeks old.

She still piddles all over when excited about being picked up, etc. But not the worrysome "leaking" she experienced in the begining. Must have been nerves about new home, etc.

I have read she should be reducing the fequency of urination by this point, but she still pees little amounts all day long. I bet she goes at a minimum 2 times per hour. Typically more.

Ok, heres the questions.
Two books suggest water should be available only during meals. In Dixies case about 7am, 4pm, 11pm. This isnt enough in my mind. Does this sound ok?

And last question. i was considering giving up the play pen and using the smaller crate during the day instead. Will it help? I didn't think so as she pees in it at night anyway, but it is smaller then the pen. By the way it is a large crate for fifty pound k-9. I put the barrier up to make it small.

Sorry so long. Wanted to give facts. Helpppppppp.......
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=86151

[/QUOTE]
Dr. cathy made a good point about 11 being too late to feed in Pm. i did it because all I have heard and read made me paronoid of hypoglycemia [sp?] I'll make the last feeding earlier. That may solve the crate peeing. she never poos in there. waits until i let her out at 6am. But what about day time???????????? I do not use puppy pads. Would prefer outdoors if possible. thanks so much everyone!!!!!!!!!!!

NewMom328

· #11 · Jul 31, 2005

I dont know if I'm going to sound like a bad mommy or not but I limited the water in the very beginning with my puppy. I guess it was about a month of limited water. I gave her water after meals times and after a lot of exercise if she looked thirsty. This never presented a problem for me or Kylee and I asked her vet and he said as long as she still seems normal (playing, eating, and full of energy) it should be fine to limit the water. Since she didnt have water all day long I could pretty much predict when she was going to go. Now that she is alittle more reliable with pottying on her pads, I let her have water at all times. This method worked for me, like I said, but it's a matter of personal preference if you want to limit the water or not. As far as the dripping goes when she is excited, Kylee still does ths every time someone walks into our house. Our trainer said it will go away as she gets older, but as for now, she suggested making sure she goes potty right before she greets someone (if you know they are coming over/home) so her bladder is empty and make sure she greets them on a linoleum or tile floor so the clean up is easier. Good luck with everything though..it takes these guys a while to get it I think. ~Lori

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k/c mom

· #12 · Jul 31, 2005

Originally posted by Fach@Jul 31 2005, 05:57 PM
Dr. cathy made a good point about 11 being too late to feed in Pm. i did it because all I have heard and read made me paronoid of hypoglycemia [sp?] I'll make the last feeding earlier. That may solve the crate peeing. she never poos in there. waits until i let her out at 6am. But what about day time???????????? I do not use puppy pads. Would prefer outdoors if possible. thanks so much everyone!!!!!!!!!!!
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=86224

[/QUOTE]

I agree.... I think the reason 3 meals is recommended for puppies is so that food will be spread out over the course of their waking day... such as humans do.... 7:00-ish; 1:00-ish and 7:00-ish in the evening. Those are the times she is awake and needs nourishment. If you are worried about hypoglycemia, perhaps give her a tiny snack later in the evening.... I think it is better for them to have food during their playing and waking hours than just before bed. Also, hypoglycemia is more of a concern before they are 12 weeks old.

Laceys mom

· #13 · Jul 31, 2005

When Lacey was a puppy she would pee every 20 to 30 minutes and I too thought maybe an UTI but she was tested and it came back negative. It took Lacey until she was about 10 months old to wait about 2 hours in between pees. Even now she pees alot...more than any other dog I have had. The other day I noticed that she isn't peeing when she gets excited and she is now 18 months old. When Lacey was a puppy I took her to her peepad alot and would just wait for her to pee. It was alot of work but she is housetrained completely. When she was a puppy if I couldn't keep a very close eye on her she was put back in her exercise pen and she didn't come out until she peed. I also had a frame to hold her pad, if I didn't she would walk off of it while she was doing her business but the frame seemed to keep her on the pad. Oh and Lacey had no problem walking on the pee.

jmm

· #14 · Aug 1, 2005

Twice an hour is a lot of urination. I would be concern about other physical problems if she is truly urinating that often - ectopic ureters, stricture, etc.

In the meantime, during waking hours, I would go ahead and take her out that often. The more she is successful, which you have to ensure, the better she will be.

MalteseJane

· #15 · Aug 1, 2005

Why don't you put a wee wee pad in her play pen ?

babybinks22

· #16 · Aug 1, 2005

I was a little reluctant to use a pee-pee pad myself but for Kenji's convenience, I laid one down and haven't found it a bit inconvenient since. Just plop the poo down the toilet after grabbing it off the piddle pad with some Toilet paper and change the pee pad once a day or when it starts to be too crowding or stained for your dog. This way, if you are gone for too long, you can rest assure your dog won't be painfully holding it in until you get home. Poo and pee don't seem to bother me a bit since Kenji has been piddle paddy trained as a pup and I change his pads frequently or as necessary. It's also helpful to see what the pooch has been digesting and how hard his intestines have been working! EEwww .. i know to some.. but hey.. i would rather keep an eye out on his matters than not!

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k/c mom

· #17 · Aug 1, 2005

Originally posted by babybinks22@Aug 1 2005, 04:07 AM
I was a little reluctant to use a pee-pee pad myself but for Kenji's convenience, I laid one down and haven't found it a bit inconvenient since. Just plop the poo down the toilet after grabbing it off the piddle pad with some Toilet paper and change the pee pad once a day or when it starts to be too crowding or stained for your dog. This way, if you are gone for too long, you can rest assure your dog won't be painfully holding it in until you get home. Poo and pee don't seem to bother me a bit since Kenji has been piddle paddy trained as a pup and I change his pads frequently or as necessary. It's also helpful to see what the pooch has been digesting and how hard his intestines have been working! EEwww .. i know to some.. but hey.. i would rather keep an eye out on his matters than not!

<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=86332

[/QUOTE]
I'm exactly like you.... I like to make sure everything is coming out OK!!

I love the pads. I would go crazy if I had to take them out in the rain, cold, heat, snow, etc. and wait for them to "go." This way, if we're in the middle of playing and one has to "go", they just go running to their pad...

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ConnieVa

· #18 · Aug 1, 2005

When I read what FACH had to say I thought for a min. I had written it and didn't remember. We are having the same problem. I have a lot more patience than my husband and don't often have a problem when I am home with Tucker. My husband it retired and I work. He spends most of his time in the same room that Tucker is in.

I have talked to him about "signs" and taking him out at the same time during the day. He thinks the pup needs to tell him when he needs to go out. I have explained that at 18 weeks with out the consistency of the owner Tucker will never tell us when he needs to go out. I have also explained when he takes Tucker out to potty he needs to have a treat ready. He waits until he brings the puppy back in and then gives him a treat.

Tucker is confined to a crate only large enough to turn around in a curl up in at nights. There have been a few nights that he has pood in the crate and he didn't mind laying in it. He will not pee in it though. It has been a week since he has pood in his crate. He has a limited space in his x-pen during the day.

Does anyone have advice I can give hubby on this training problem? He tends to listen to others before he will listen to me. I think that is a "man" thing!!!!

Please help!!!! Hubby is so frustrated and I am at my wits end trying to get him to understand me. As a semi retired dog trainer I know it sometimes takes longer when both parties can't get their "ducks in a row" when it comes to training.

HELP I need your tips for hubby!!!!!

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maltsmom

· #19 · Aug 1, 2005

Originally posted by Fach@Jul 31 2005, 09:53 AM

I am so frustrated with Dixies housetraining. I am really trying to be patient, but not getting beyond this point. heres the long and the short of it followed by a couple questions.
Dixie doesn't object to being unclean [ie; covered with pee] she will pe in the crate, pen, anywhere and has no problem walking in it, etc.

She knows the word pee pee. If I take her outdoors to her spot and ask her to go pee pee and she is capable, she will. But, she will also go anywhere, anytime the urge comes upon her. So, atleast we have a connection with the word.

She has a playpen [wire] for daytime, crate for sleeping.

Liver treats everytime she pees outside plus much praise.

breeder and vet instructed free food and water 24/7. it has been impossible for me to train this way [tried

] so I put her on three meals per day and water all the time except in crate from 11pm till 6;00 am. The meals times are fine. She isn't much interested in food and will usually only eat if i feed her. Bad habit, but ok with me.

UTI test came out normal.

been here four weeks.

she is 18 weeks old.

She still piddles all over when excited about being picked up, etc. But not the worrysome "leaking" she experienced in the begining. Must have been nerves about new home, etc.

I have read she should be reducing the fequency of urination by this point, but she still pees little amounts all day long. I bet she goes at a minimum 2 times per hour. Typically more.

Ok, heres the questions.
Two books suggest water should be available only during meals. In Dixies case about 7am, 4pm, 11pm. This isnt enough in my mind. Does this sound ok?

And last question. i was considering giving up the play pen and using the smaller crate during the day instead. Will it help? I didn't think so as she pees in it at night anyway, but it is smaller then the pen. By the way it is a large crate for fifty pound k-9. I put the barrier up to make it small.

Sorry so long. Wanted to give facts. Helpppppppp.......
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=86151

[/QUOTE]

When I brought Jill home at 18 weeks. She went everywhere too. She peed about every hour. The best thing was that her breeder used the pads, so we decided to stay with that since is was early spring, still cold and messy out side. It took many many weeks for her not to have accidents and not go all the time. I just think she is still too young. How big is her crate? It should only be big enough for her to lay in. See if you can put a divider in there. Don't give her any extra room to pee in.

fach

Discussion Starter · #20 · Aug 1, 2005

Originally posted by MalteseJane@Jul 31 2005, 08:36 PM
Why don't you put a wee wee pad in her play pen ?
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=86285

[/QUOTE]
won't use it. that would only help if the entire playpen floor was covered.

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