Maltese Dogs Forum : Spoiled Maltese Forums banner
41 - 55 of 55 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
416 Posts
Originally posted by tlunn+Feb 26 2005, 10:10 PM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-SylphidesMom
@Feb 26 2005, 09:16 PM
Well Said, Brit's Mom!  Elegant, I must agree with Brit.  In my educated opinion there is something terribly wrong about the systematization of children in our schools.  We expect mindless conformity, impose inflexible rules, and teach using ineffective, time-wasting pedagogies and curriculum that in no way prepares students for the real world, real thinking, or higher education. A good teacher would turn a dracula drawing or any other sign of creative thinking and student interest into the perfect opportunity for a "teaching moment".  A mediocre teacher penalizes and punishes, often due to the fact that s/he doesn't know how to teach outside the book.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=38024
I am REALLY trying to NOT take offense at this statement...but right now I am----

Trying to find a "tactful" way to reply


Maybe I should just stay out of this thread..

<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=38037
[/B][/QUOTE]

i think that goes for me too... as well as probably Elegant..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,895 Posts
Triste,
I remember you posting about your issues with your son's english teacher. Now, you are having problems with the computer teacher too. If you really hate this school so badly, why don't you get your kids out?

Have you ever thought that your constant complaining is affecting how the teachers see your child? I bet you are the "psycho mom" they gossip about in the teacher's lounge.

If your son is as bright as you say and the teachers aren't challenging him, are there any gifted programs you can enroll him in? Or maybe you can try home schooling him. This way he can receive the BEST EDUCATION from you since you seem to indicate that KNOW your kids and how teachers should teach.

I have tutored computer classes before and it is very difficult to monitor all 25 students even standing in the front of the class. This is not like a normal class room and view is often obstructed by the computers.

I apologize if I offeneded you again but I do have very different views from you. You should evaluate your own actions and what you feel is right for your son. No one here can tell you what to do and by the sounds of it ... most of us here don't agree with you.

Kids lie and they push their parents as much as they can. I just can't imagine a child in grade 6 going to someone's mom and saying ... "you son is being treated unfairly".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,840 Posts
Originally posted by tlunn+Feb 26 2005, 10:10 PM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-SylphidesMom
@Feb 26 2005, 09:16 PM
Well Said, Brit's Mom!  Elegant, I must agree with Brit.  In my educated opinion there is something terribly wrong about the systematization of children in our schools.  We expect mindless conformity, impose inflexible rules, and teach using ineffective, time-wasting pedagogies and curriculum that in no way prepares students for the real world, real thinking, or higher education. A good teacher would turn a dracula drawing or any other sign of creative thinking and student interest into the perfect opportunity for a "teaching moment".  A mediocre teacher penalizes and punishes, often due to the fact that s/he doesn't know how to teach outside the book.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=38024
I am REALLY trying to NOT take offense at this statement...but right now I am----

Trying to find a "tactful" way to reply


Maybe I should just stay out of this thread..

<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=38037
[/B][/QUOTE]


Ya know...in the "ideal" teaching world you are probably right! We should all grasp those teachable moments and make something "real" out of them...but that is not ideal anymore! Now we have President Bush and his "No Child Left Behind" breathing down our back! We have required curriculum we have to teach...my principal comes around once a week to check my plan book to see that I am actually teaching the "tested" objectives for the state test. At the end of the testing period, my students' scores are posted in the local paper and compared with all the surrounding counties as well as ranked according to the scores of all the schools in the state. If Dracula and Jesus with a peace sign was not in my curriculum...and that was being done during my teaching time...then you are darn right that I would have taken it from him too! But, IF Dracula was being read by the students..maybe I would have hung up the cool picture on my bulletin board..same with the Jesus picture. Even though I am in public education, my kids are aware that I am a Christian, and I would have loved to give the student recognition for his excellent artistic abilities....I would have also reminded him that it needed to be done during free time. To this the child probably would have responded something about not having any in my class...b/c they rarely do...ha ha..


Anyway, in my next life...I would like to be able to teach in my ideal scenario! Unfortunately...that is not how it is today. Teachers have to conform to the governments' standards...(most coming from elected officials that have not set foot in a modern day classroom) that is why SO many people are either leaving the profession or not going near it to begin with! The expectations are too high, and the pay is too low!!!! I don't know many that could deal with the issues that I deal with on a daily basis and stay sane and sober!!! I am not tooting my own horn, I just know how hard my job is...things are SO different these days! Most people just don't realize it. -_-

Alright...coming down off my soapbox! I am sure I have more to add to this-but right now my head is spinning and I feel I am rambling!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,840 Posts
Originally posted by Brit'sMom@Feb 26 2005, 08:58 PM
Peace Signs as Gang signs?  Come ON!  I have known (and no I am not PROUD of this) Crips, Bloods, Vislords, Gt's, Latin Kings, Hoover crips, Polywoods, ect ect and NONE of their gang signs are "Peace Signs".

<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=38019
[/QUOTE]


Actually...kids can make up gang signs at any given time...we have issues every few weeks in which the students are trying to "express" themselves. You never know what they are going to come up with. It doesn't have to be a nationally recognized symbol if they have made up their own group.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,122 Posts
Tlunn, don't worry about being tactful. You won't hurt my feelings if you disagree. I enjoy open discussion on issues and believe that freedom of expression means that everyone has a right to their opinion, which is one of the most invaluable tenets of freedom :)

You have probably noticed that on the forum I don't usually take a political stance and generally stay out of philosophical discussion. However, this is one with which I feel compelled to voice an opinion that may be unpopular with some of you.

I understand the issues from the perspective of a teacher. My comments are meant to be of a critique of the system, not of all teachers. I am aware of the challenges that teachers face in their positions, and have known many an excellent teacher who left the system because s/he just couldn't bear to teach in it.

As a parent, I do believe that looking out for our children's well being and best interests should be a parent's primary responsibility. An as educator who educates educators, designs and oversees curriculum development, and teaches pedagogical theory and practice, I am well aware that opportunities for harnessing teaching moments, allowing creativity in the classroom, and meeting learning objectives can be designed into the curriculum in such a way that standards and competencies are met.

Having said this, I do think it's important to examine the issue from the parent's perspective. I notice a banding together of the K-12 educators on the board against Triste and against parents and students in general. This is why Triste felt compelled to leave. Triste is looking out for her son, as she should be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,486 Posts
I'm not a K-12 educator; I'm a parent. I believe that parents should be advocates for their children. When asked for opinions, the consensus was that a parent should LISTEN to all sides of the story before jumping to conclusions or takings sides. I still believe that this should be the first step in resolution of conflict. To my knowledge, this step was not taken. I would be very curious to hear the outcome of that conference.

I also believe that thoughtful discussion and sometimes disagreement is healthy. To get mad when one feels they are not feeling supported is childish. Sorry. Don't ask for opinions and then get mad when there is disagreement.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,840 Posts
Originally posted by msmagnolia@Feb 27 2005, 12:23 AM
I'm not a K-12 educator; I'm a parent.  I believe that parents should be advocates for their children.  When asked for opinions, the consensus was that a parent should LISTEN to all sides of the story before jumping to conclusions or takings sides.  I still believe that this should be the first step in resolution of conflict. To my knowledge, this step was not taken.  I would be very curious to hear the outcome of that conference. 

I also believe that thoughtful discussion and sometimes disagreement is healthy.  To get mad when one feels they are not feeling supported is childish.  Sorry.  Don't ask for opinions and then get mad when there is disagreement.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=38061
[/QUOTE]



I believe this is the point that the educators were trying to make. It just seems like so many people are so quick to take the child's side without hearing the whole story. This happens SO much! It leaves the teachers defensive...which is exactly what most of us were being...defensive for a teacher we don't even know...ha ha...


It is AMAZING how many times I get calls from parents (just got one SATURDAY morning...yes, a parent called my HOME on a Saturday!
) that are fighting mad, ready to tear my head off...and once they realize the way the story REALLY happened, or the classroom policy behind the supposed "injustice"...they completely do a turn-around. I NEVER get mad at the parent for standing up for the child and questioning something in his/her best interest. (only aggravated when they approach it in a rude and accusing manner.
) I get angry at the STUDENT for either omitting pertinent information or twisting the story to benefit him/herself and leaving the teacher to take the heat for a mistake he/she made.

I myself am a parent, and you better believe that I look out for the best interest of my own skin kids! I would question any parent who was aware of an injustice and did not question it...

I don't know...
I am rambling....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,836 Posts
Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Oh boy. I wasn't going to come back here and post on this board but someone emailed me and asked me to please come and defend myself. I don't know what to say here. Firstly, yes...students are coming up to me and telling me what is going on in the classroom. Why is it hard to believe that my son's class cares enough about each other to do this? They've been together in the same school since kindergarten. There are only 45 of them. So yes, they do care about each other enough to say something to a parent. I've done the same for them and would do it again in a heart beat. Maybe in a public school this doesn't happen. That's a shame. It's part of the reason why I chose this school. I hadn't had any problems with this school up until this year. For the record, the doctor said my son didn't have depression...the counselor made a rash judgement without investigating. Funny thing about that English teacher someone mentioned. Although the principal AND the teacher acted as if nothing was wrong, those tests I was complaining about have now changed and now no one is flunking them. So put a point up for the parents. Many parents were complaining about that teacher but no one would stick their neck out. So, I did. So in this case...I am doing it again. I guess that makes me the psycho parent someone mentioned. I'm psycho because I am concerned about my child's school. Alrighty...then I am grade A looney!
I'll take that gladly. The computer program they learn on takes NO effort from this teacher other than monitoring the children. It is computer graded. He has to do nothing other than watch these students. In no other class does the honor system get used and I don't understand why this teacher has to let them work at their own pace. In HS typing, you can't work at your own pace. In no other class including art can you work at your own pace. A project has a deadline and it has to be met. Why allow a group of 12-13 yr olds have control over that? It's silly. Given the chance, these kids will do what they want to get the best grade with little or no effort. My son included. It's the way kids this age are. This is why I want to make sure that every student is treated fairly. It's that simple. And the IF in that "IF the kids were allowed to read Dracula"...it's true. It is on the 6th grade reading list. You can choose to believe me or not. I still don't get why the picture done in my son's FREE time in school is wrong. It's part of the book he read. The school fed this book to my son and is now punishing him for his creative efforts that have come as a result of this book. It's sad, this school is the ONLY "Blue Ribbon No Child Left Behind" school in our area, county even. Many students have left b/c the school has a problem with the teachers not going outside the box and reaching out to the students who need more effort to teach than just what's required of them. It's a shame. Up until this year, I didn't have a reason to be involved in that concern but now I do. They don't know what to do with my son. He's smart, he's a quick thinker and he isn't being challenged. The problem with considering another school is that there is only one other school in our school system for him to go to. There, it is a total class amount of over 150 children. I like the fact that the kids in my school now know each other, they know their friend's siblings...they pray for each other when someone's family member is ill, they support each other in times of need. It's a close knit bunch and that is why I have hesitated to pull him. It's why the kids are telling me he is having trouble w/ a teacher. They are concerned for their friend. I dont see how that's surprising. It's sad that someone thinks this isn't possible. It's how things should be. I know that teachers have state requirements that they have to cover. In my school they also have to cover the religious parts too. I have a deep respect for that. I have no beef with WHAT my son is being taught. I think he is being well prepared information wise. The thing is, the other school that my son could possibly go to is BEHIND my son's school. He has a cousin in that school that is the same age. They compare. So if my son transferred, how bored would he be then?! Now maybe you can see why I hesitate. It's not an easy decision to make and like I said, up until this year, I had no problem with the school. The kids have been treated very well. Teachers from years past remember these children and everything about them at this school. They care enough to ask about them when I go in to open houses and such. All in all I like this school...and like I said, the English issue was resolved to my satisfaction. I didn't ask for the tests to be EASY, just not impossible so that even the straight A kids could barely pass them. Obviously someone agreed with me somewhere b/c it was changed. So chalk one up for the psycho mom.
I have only come back here so that I could clarify some things. I don't want to continue this subject here. Other people have noticed how all teachers band together...that's great. Just understand that there ARE teachers out there that are NOT doing what is best for the students and perhaps maybe this situation includes one of them. None of you who have talked against my stance has even mentioned that and offered some support/advice of what if this WAS happening. You just defend the teacher. I DID get the teacher's side. I was accused of not getting it. I just haven't had the lovely pleasure of confronting him face to face(oh and the principal says she isn't sure if the teacher can make it or not...HUH?!) They set up the time!). As you might suspect, things said in email will not be the same in person. I stand by everything I have said in emails to this teacher. I won't change my stance. So now...please, let's just close this topic and let it go. I am drained and have been conflicted since this all started. Like I said, I hadn't planned on coming back but people are asking me why I am not posting in defense of myself. So here I am...and there I go. Thanks for all who stood up for my position. I do appreciate it.

and charmypoo? I am NOT constantly complaining...you are making a bad assumption. This English teacher thing is the ONLY other thing(besides this computer teacher) I have complained about in my 7 years w/ this school. What do you want..a bunch of parents who just assume the teachers are doing their job? *sigh* I hope the teachers at this school aren't talking about parents in the lounge, gossiping is a sin according to the Catholic faith..and this is a Catholic school!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,840 Posts
Originally posted by Triste@Feb 27 2005, 08:57 AM
And the IF in that "IF the kids were allowed to read Dracula"...it's true. It is on the 6th grade reading list. You can choose to believe me or not. <div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=38085
[/QUOTE]


I am the one that said that...and I never intended for it to come across as if I didn't believe you!
I was only trying to make my OWN point with the capitals. Sorry if you took it the wrong way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
416 Posts
This is what I call ironic.

My horoscope for today.,...

Other people may have some seriously opposing opinions in regards to how things should be done. Be prepared for battle, KERRI, because others are likely to have sharp and hurtful tongues. The key to finding solutions that will work for everyone is compromise. Realize that the best solution is probably the one that neither party has thought of on their own. Work together to come up with the best situation for everyone involved.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,427 Posts
I didnt really want to say anyhting and I agree that not ALL teachers are perfect, but I do truly believe that teachers deserve a lot of respect for what they do. I find it hard to believe that a teacher would be in that field/career if they didnt have a students best intentions at heart because I honestly doubt that a teacher would do all they do with what they are being paid if they didnt care. I can understand how some teachers might judge some studenst and have favorites and even students that they possible dislike, BUT I can tell you that it sounds like if your son were ever doing anything wrong that you would not support him taking responsibility for that. I am not a parent and cant even imagine how tough that job is BUT we are all adults and have to be mature and open minded enough to explore all angles of any situation and avoiding any biases when speaking of conflicting situations, atleast this is how it should be IMHO.

I am not even a teacher and never plan on being one but what insulted me was your comment how "all teachers stick together." You better believe that, when someone comes in here to talk about a teacher's wrong doings and another teacher can relate to these conflicting situations you are having, you better believe that a teacher will stick up for the situation. I cant believe that you would degrade the job of a teacher just because you cant see other sides of situations. To me that was more insulting than anything anyone has said on here
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,672 Posts
Teachers deserve the respect they earn, just like the rest of us. I couldn't do that job if I was paid $100k. But neither could I be a surgeon. Some people are suited and skilled for certain jobs and some aren't. Still doesn't mean they don't have to earn the respect of their patients and peers.

Most teachers work very hard, are emotionally invested in their careers and care deeply about their students. But not all. Some are lazy, biased, and ill prepared for the teaching profession. Some make mistakes.

Since some of Triste's sons fellow students are reporting this teacher's bias against her son to her, she has strong reason to believe her son. I think the real issue is the boy is underchallenged and that is the issue that needs to be addressed in the conference. This computer teacher does not seem to be stepping up to the plate and involving him/her self in the class for whatever reason. Again, I am not a teacher but every danged profession has its challenges. Every one of us who works for someone or some company has regulations, restrictions, mandates, orders and quotas or goals that must be met in spite of them.

Plus, Triste's son is learning what we have all learned at some point in our lives: Life Is Not Fair. It's never going to be fair. Doesn't mean we don't try to even the odds with our own actions by fighting but there is always more to come.

I hope she comes back. I think the remark about Psycho Parent was out of line for this forum and I can see where someone would be turned off by a personal attack like that but that is an anomoly on this forum and I would hope that it won't be repeated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,895 Posts
Triste,
My psycho mom comment was out of line and I apologize for that. But Catholic or not, we are humans and we gossip. I am Catholic myself and attended a Catholic school from kindergarten to grade 7. During a parent/teacher meeting in grade 7, my teacher told my dad to get me out of there if we can because we (me and my 2 sisters) could do more than what the school could offer.

My dad pulled us out the next year and we went to a private school that was known to be the best all girls private school in Toronto (where we live). This school is downtown and we had to commute an hour each way. I think this was the best decision they made and I got a wonderful education. The teachers were always caring and always supportive. We had the best facilities and the courses were constantly being evaluated. Parents played a big part in the course development as the infrastructure was in place. I know you are trying to set this infrastructure up in your school and I appauld you for your efforts.

I strongly feel that you do care about your kids and if the problems in your school can't be fixed. You should consider finding a better school even if it is not local. Kids will make new friends. I switched 3 schools before I graduated from high school. Once when my family moved to Toronto in grade 3, then when we moved homes in grade 5, then when I went to private school in grade 8. I managed to make new friends each time. This is part of life. It's not easy but it helps make them stronger and more adaptable.

When I went to University, I chose to study engineering. Coming from a private girl school, I had no friends in my engineering program which consisted of mostly males. I started all over again and met some of the best people I know.

I guess the point of the story is....big changes have big results. I don't doubt for a minute that I will not be where I am today if my dad didn't pull me out of the Catholic school. The education I received in my new school was far superior and the facilities we had are incomparable. The goals and vision of my classmates were also different.

I wish you best of luck and am removing myself from any educational discussions. I urge you to stay onthe board for Maltese and dog related discussions. However, I honestly believe another board is more suitable for this and other political or religious topics.

Triste, I would say 90% of your post are not Maltese related! I have other interests too but I go to other forums for that. There is a forum for almost every topic out there! Let's get back on topic now.

P.S: I didn't have the time to read all the posts so I apologize if I have offended more people. These are my thoughts and we are all entitled to voice our opinions. Freedom of speech right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
447 Posts
Triste good luck on your son, please keep sticking with him and helping him. I don't think you are babying him at all, you just wants what is best. If i had a kid and he got "in trouble" for drawing pictures in class and come to find out the pictures were of mild nature and during free time, then yes Id be a little upset and a lot confused too. WHen you go talk to the teacher keep a calm and open mind, MAYBE all the truth hasn't been told, maybe your son was really in the wrong, maybe the teacher has it out for them who knows. The point is to get to the bottom of it so that he can move on.

As for the teachers on the board, I understand that your job is hard, for a while there I was majoring in Early childood education and I remember many topics on child sensitivity and how we (or now you because Ive switched majors...again) have to make sure you are not obviously favoring a certain child or being continously negative against a child. THere are workshops yearly for this. There are numerous case studies about children who are openly disliked by their teachers and how that causes lasting effects , so please don't act like all teachers are perfect or this wouldn't be such a big problem

Teachers do deserve respect, but they are not God, they are human. I will not "worship" any teacher, and just like any other adult, when it comes to my child I will seek what is best.

I personally commend Triste for being an active parent. And, no Im not "sucking up" I don't even know her.
 
41 - 55 of 55 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top