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I'm angry, because I read or hear about what is standard or how our dogs should be shaped or how their hair should be in order to be in a show. Y'know, if our babies are a pure Maltese, what difference does it all make? The legs should be this long, the snout not too far out, the tail curled just so, etc. It makes me angry because a Maltese is a Maltese no matter if it has "deformities" (meaning not to show standard). Just like in humans - some are short, wide, cross eyed, curly hair, etc. Not one is more beautiful than the other. We're all beautiful in our own way.

And I feel if dog show runners really loved dogs, they wouldn't believe in one ultimate ideal.

I love Molly, just as she is!!!

Thanks for letting me vent. Sometimes I get soooo mad about things that aren't relevant to much of anything.
 

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I always come away from Dog Shows a little upset. The conformation standards are there for a reason, but the "hair-do" standards and tricks it takes to show and win, that's what upsets me.

The only (real) reason for a registery and showing is to preserve and improve a breed. By improve I mean health. A lot of conformation standard is health related i.e. straight legs, good gait, etc. Size--I have a little trouble with--only when humans use breeding to make an animal too small to be really robust and healthy.

I have personal likes and dislikes about MY perfect Maltese........I will adjust to some things, but if I was going to draw my perfect Malt, he would have a more normal looking face than some of the "babydoll faced" Malts, be between 7 & 10 lbs., have lots of silky coat but--not fuzzy or curly, have ears set fairly low, large almost round eyes, a flat medium length (by current standards) back, and be almost square by height/length.

Would I love an imperfect animal by any standard, any less, of course not! :excl:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Originally posted by Frosty's Mom@Sep 6 2005, 12:04 PM
The only (real) reason for a registery and showing is to preserve and improve a breed. By improve I mean health. A lot of conformation standard is health related i.e. straight legs, good gait, etc.  Size--I have a little trouble with--only when humans use breeding to make an animal too small to be really robust and healthy.

Would I love an imperfect animal by any standard, any less, of course not! :excl:
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I understand about the health issues, but sometimes I feel like its more preference on how they are shaped or look.

Thanks for replying. I appreciate all comments.
 

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Well I look at it in terms of a beauty pageant....people come in all sorts of shapes and looks but only a few can achieve Miss America levels. They have a "standard" the same as dog shows.

Does it mean that if you are not Miss America material you are less beautiful, less desired, less smart. NO it just means you are not Miss America. The same with show dogs. Just because one malt might not be perfect to standards do not mean it is any less of a great dog.

And besides that dogs don't know they don't meet the standards. LOL
 

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Originally posted by HollyHobbie@Sep 6 2005, 01:38 PM
Well I look at it in terms of a beauty pageant....people come in all sorts of shapes and looks but only a few can achieve Miss America levels. They have a "standard" the same as dog shows.

Does it mean that if you are not Miss America material you are less beautiful, less desired, less smart. NO it just means you are not Miss America. The same with show dogs. Just because one malt might not be perfect to standards do not mean it is any less of a great dog.

And besides that dogs don't know they don't meet the standards. LOL
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these are my sentiments as well.
 

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I don't show dogs and really know nothing about breeding or standards but if there weren't people who did make sure that breeders stayed true to the breed standards our pups that we are all so proud of might not be the gorgeous pups that they are!!! We may not care how long their snouts are or if their hind quarters are just exactly right but I do think we need to be grateful to all those out there who have, for the love of the breed, safeguarded the breed standards and characteristics. Otherwise a malt could look like a bichon could look like a poodle could look like a beagle.

I think it is great that we love our malts no matter how imperfect they are but we should all be thankful for the careful selection that goes into the breeding of our beloved pups. Otherwise there would be no difference between our pups who come from knowledgable respected breeders and puppymill pups!
 

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Originally posted by puppymom@Sep 6 2005, 04:13 PM
I don't show dogs and really know nothing about breeding or standards but if there weren't people who did make sure that breeders stayed true to the breed standards our pups that we are all so proud of might not be the gorgeous pups that they are!!!  We may not care how long their snouts are or if their hind quarters are just exactly right but I do think we need to be grateful to all those out there who have, for the love of the breed, safeguarded the breed standards and characteristics.  Otherwise a malt could look like a bichon could look like a poodle could look like a beagle. 

I think it is great that we love our malts no matter how imperfect they are but we should all be thankful for the careful selection that goes into the breeding of our beloved pups.  Otherwise there would be no difference between our pups who come from knowledgable respected breeders and puppymill pups!
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Very well said and so very true. Thank you for taking the time to write exactly what I was thinking!!
 

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As some of you know I work for a Show handler/ breeder. Prissy is a beautiful maltese but I have gotten very good about seeing a maltese and telling what is wrong with them as far as standard.

Faults
Prissy is to big
too long from the shoulders to the tail
Nose about 1/2 too long
weak rear which causes a swinging gate.

Pros
Great pigment no matter how much sun she gets
perfect coat even though I have neglected it many times
great neck and shoulder set
good eyes
perfect tail set

While listing all of these things wrong and right with my maltese all I could think about is how much I love her for being her

One time I was talking to my boss about how different Prissy looks compared to her dogs and she said something very nice that you wouldnt expect from a hardcore Maltese breederr.
All Maltese are beautiful in there own way.

Just like people they all have the pros and the cons about them but they are perfect to us and thats what really matters.
 

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Just borrowed a computer at work to check in. Naturally, I had to reply to this post.

We all have our own standard for what we like in a Maltese. We all think our dogs are beautiful. Thankfully, there is a standard set which allows us to work to breed so that our dogs are true to what a Maltese should look like. Right now, I'm growing coat on FIVE from my breeding, as well as another I purchased from another well respected breeder. I'm not sure that all will make it into the ring, but right now, I like what I see. If they don't meet the standard so that I think they can be the quality for the ring, then, they will get a hair cut. They may even find a new home, if I decide they don't meet my standard for breeding. Some of you may think it is cruel to do this to a dog. But, mine love the care and attention. They know they are pretty, and they like to show it off. To me, a quality Maltese will make me have chills when I see them walk across the floor. In my case, I plot and plan for years to come as to what will happen if I put this with this to make that. (Funny sentence, huh?)
I can well understand your point about show dogs if you are not involved with it, or don't have an interest in breeding. But, in my opinion, a person who is involved with this should only work to better the breed, and to have the best representation of them for their breeding stock--both in confirmation and in health. They should, in turn, only sell to other breeders who hold the same high standards.
I would encourage you to attend more shows and look at the dogs who do win. Then, go look at the dogs who have a long body, a curly coat, or bad bite. Why should these dogs who do not meet the standard be used for breeding. To me, this is almost as bad a breeding mixes.
 

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I wish I knew someone who was well versed on the maltese standards. I would love to know what is "correct" about Toby's features and what is "incorrect" just for my own personal knowledge. I do know that his body is way to long, but as far as facial features, I am not so sure. I, personally, may be a bit biased, but I love the way his face looks. If his facial features are incorrect, then when I look for another maltese, I would look for his type of features again.
If anyone would like to critique Toby's features, please feel free. I would be very interested in knowing.
 

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This is the BEST site I've found (I've posted it before) on the Maltese Standard. It shows you in detail what to look for.
 

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Originally posted by LucyLou@Sep 6 2005, 08:29 PM
Just borrowed a computer at work to check in.  Naturally, I had to reply to this post.

We all have our own standard for what we like in a Maltese.  We all think our dogs are beautiful.  Thankfully, there is a standard set which allows us to work to breed so that our dogs are true to what a Maltese should look like.  Right now, I'm growing coat on FIVE from my breeding, as well as another I purchased from another well respected breeder.  I'm not sure that all will make it into the ring, but right now, I like what I see.  If they don't meet the standard so that I think they can be the quality for the ring, then, they will get a hair cut.  They may even find a new home, if I decide they don't meet my standard for breeding.  Some of you may think it is cruel to do this to a dog.  But, mine love the care and attention.  They know they are pretty, and they like to show it off.  To me, a quality Maltese will make me have chills when I see them walk across the floor.  In my case, I plot and plan for years to come as to what will happen if I put this with this to make that.  (Funny sentence, huh?) 
I can well understand your point about show dogs if you are not involved with it, or don't have an interest in breeding.  But, in my opinion, a person who is involved with this should only work to better the breed, and to have the best representation of them for their breeding stock--both in confirmation and in health.  They should, in turn, only sell to other breeders who hold the same high standards.
I would encourage you to attend more shows and look at the dogs who do win.  Then, go look at the dogs who have a long body, a curly coat, or bad bite.  Why should these dogs who do not meet the standard be used for breeding.  To me, this is almost as bad a breeding mixes.
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Very well said, LucyLou. I think the confusion may lie in the fact that people are comparing dogs to human beings and beauty contests, etc. I don't believe that has anything to do with dogs. I'm grateful to those breeders who try to breed to standard so that when I go looking for another Malt, I'll have some idea what he/she will look like and what the personality will be.... those traits that attracted me to the breed to begin with.

My Kallie is way off standard. To me she is beautiful and has a delightful personality. She is a fabulous pet but she is so very different in looks and personality from Catcher, who was bred to standard; however, of course he has tons of "faults" but he is much more representative of the breed than she is.
 

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You have to keep in mind too that all the standard is...is a piece of paper. It is up to the individual breeder to interpret the standard to the best of their ability and to breed dogs that in their opinion are the best representatives of that standard. So someone may like a longer nose, some may like a babydoll face, some may like a dog more up on leg or neck. So no...even if you breed to the standard, not every dog is going to look identical. I show havanese and while my dog is within the height standard for the breed....some judges like a smaller dog, some like a more delicate bone structure, some prefer a more sloping topline. So even though you may have a dog who is a champion, if you line him up next to another champion, there will still be differences within the breed. I guess the point I am making is....there is NO perfect representation of the breed out there, they will ALL have their strong and weak points, but if you do not breed to some sort of ideal and put your dogs out there to be judged against others, you have no clue what you are producing, and are certainly not helping to promote and improve the breed.

Nichole, I think that Toby is adorable, I could not critique him. If you want to see what a show-quality maltese looks like, come out to the show in Kenosha this weekend. You may like what you see, you may not. The point is...it doesn't matter...if Toby's face is the one you love, then do not worry about having him compared to the standard....he is beautiful just the way he is.
 

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Originally posted by Pippinsmom@Sep 6 2005, 08:31 PM
Nichole, I think that Toby is adorable, I could not critique him.  If you want to see what a show-quality maltese looks like, come out to the show in Kenosha this weekend.  You may like what you see, you may not.  The point is...it doesn't matter...if Toby's face is the one you love, then do not worry about having him compared to the standard....he is beautiful just the way he is.   

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You're going to be in Kenosha this weekend? I might stop by...I'll PM you.

I guess since I have not seen many "show quality" maltese, I am just curious if Toby is within breed standards. Personally, I don't care if he is or isn't, I have just always wondered.
 

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I myself have always wondered how do the breeders tell so early if the puppy meets the standard. I mean in terms of weight/ hight/ things like that.
Is it possible to give away a champion puppy by acciedent? Since they are not fully developed yet at 12 weeks
 

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Originally posted by Chelsey@Sep 7 2005, 07:17 AM
I myself have always wondered how do the breeders tell so early if the puppy meets the standard.  I mean in terms of weight/ hight/ things like that.
Is it possible to give away a champion puppy by acciedent?  Since they are not fully developed yet at 12 weeks
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I think that most show breeders will hang onto a puppy who has show potential until he is older, 4 or 5 months old at least. You're right - 12 weeks is just too young to tell.

Lucy Lou, I agree with you 100%. Maltese who do not meet the standard should not be bred. It's so sad to see the product of backyard breeding, however well-intentioned. The so-called breeder may think their Maltese is beautiful, but they are not experts and their opinions are definately biased. The results are Maltese puppies who grow up to be too big and have cottony, curly coats at LL says, not to mention the potential for health problems.

People who breed have to be hard-hearted and cull their dogs, only breed the best of the best.
 

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Originally posted by Nichole@Sep 6 2005, 08:36 PM
I wish I knew someone who was well versed on the maltese standards.  I would love to know what is "correct" about Toby's features and what is "incorrect" just for my own personal knowledge.  I do know that his body is way to long, but as far as facial features, I am not so sure.  I, personally, may be a bit biased, but I love the way his face looks.  If his facial features are incorrect, then when I look for another maltese, I would look for his type of features again. 
  If anyone would like to critique Toby's features, please feel free.  I would be very interested in knowing. 

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I'm just curious if Kodie could be a show dog... haha... i already know he couldnt because his two ribs stick out and he has a bump on the end of his tail (his grandmother had it), plus his jaw is not aligned correctly.
ohh well... at least his face might qualify.
haha... i dont care anyway... I love my baby no matter what!
I think Kodie is cuter than some of those show dogs! haha
 

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Originally posted by Kodie+Sep 7 2005, 08:08 AM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Nichole
@Sep 6 2005, 08:36 PM
I wish I knew someone who was well versed on the maltese standards.  I would love to know what is "correct" about Toby's features and what is "incorrect" just for my own personal knowledge.  I do know that his body is way to long, but as far as facial features, I am not so sure.  I, personally, may be a bit biased, but I love the way his face looks.  If his facial features are incorrect, then when I look for another maltese, I would look for his type of features again.  
   If anyone would like to critique Toby's features, please feel free.  I would be very interested in knowing.  

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I'm just curious if Kodie could be a show dog... haha... i already know he couldnt because his two ribs stick out and he has a bump on the end of his tail (his grandmother had it), plus his jaw is not aligned correctly.
ohh well... at least his face might qualify.
haha... i dont care anyway... I love my baby no matter what!
I think Kodie is cuter than some of those show dogs! haha
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I agree! Kodie would get my vote for the world's cutest Maltese especially if he was wearing his duck costume!
 
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