Territorial Peeing

2436 Views 32 Replies 7 Participants Last post by Harley & Dakotas Mum, Aug 12, 2005

Harley & Dakotas Mum

Discussion Starter · Jul 9, 2005

Harley was toilet trained at a young age & is very good at going outside when he needs to do his business.

Our daily routine consists of getting out of bed, going straight outside to take care of any business while I prepare his breakfast & get into the shower. He has a doggy door so can come & go as he pleases - only while I'm home though.

Occasionally, when I get out of the shower I spot a little puddle on the floor either near my slippers or next to my bed, or in the hallway. Luckily I have floorboards & it's easy to clean - but still very annoying given he has come inside & done it - almost on purpose! I do growl at him, but I don't go on & on about it, because I didn't actually see it happen & he probably doesn't know what I'm so upset about!

The fact that he comes inside to do it bothers me - I presume this is for attention because I went into the shower while he was outside? Even so, I need it to stop!

I think it's quite possible that the entire problem is related to the fact he has not been neutered - I have a very good reason for this - Harleys testicles have never descended. They're just not there! (He's 15 months old). Well, the vet said that they are there, but just not descended, rendering him infertile.

This news was given to me at about the time I was expecting to have him neutered, because I waited to have him micro-chipped at the same time - needless to say, I had to go ahead with the chipping - more traumatic for me than him I think!!

Sorry, I'm rambling! - My question is, can anyone recommend anything to stop him from marking his territory inside? He NEVER does it when I'm around; it's always done when I'm not around (mostly when I take my morning shower). On a rare occasion - I might discover he has 'squirted' a new piece of furniture - he did this to my hall stand a couple of times when I first got it.

Is there a harmless, safe way to stop this? I'm also interested to know if anyone else has experienced the testicle 'no-show'?

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k/c mom

· #2 · Jul 9, 2005

If the testicles are undescended, they are "there" they are just in the wrong place. They are probably still producing hormones that are making him mark. From what I understand, the testicles are somewhere "up there" and need to be surgically removed. There are a couple problems that can occur from leaving them. Testicular cancer is one. I would get this taken care of right away and then see if the problem with marking resolves. Good luck!!!

Here is a short article from Drs. Foster & Smith that explains it:

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2&articleid=897

dr.jaimie

· #3 · Jul 9, 2005

being cryptorchid (retained testicles) is more of a reason to neuter than a normal dog. like K/C's mom said it leaves them more prone to testicular cancer. Im surprised your vet didnt recommend a neuter. also it isnt 100% that he is infertile and if he were to breed with a femal, this is a heritable trait. not something you would want to pass on to offspring. so i recommend a neuter. in the mean time you can try putting belly bands on him to prevent him from peeing on things.

Harley & Dakotas Mum

Discussion Starter · #4 · Jul 9, 2005

Wow, I'm a bit shocked - and a bit annoyed with myself for never doing any research on this. (thanks for the article K & C's mum!) I'll be spending the morning reading up a bit more I think!

Everything I thought about this was completely wrong! I thought it was harmless to leave them, I though he was infertile & I thought my vet was the ants pants! I can't believe he never explained any of this to me. The vet even gave me a letter to say that although he wasn't neutered, his condition made him infertile, therefore I wouldn't need to pay the fee for a 'whole' dog when I registered him. Thankfully his main play-friend is male, so he hasn't ever been in a situation to mate.

I will have the converstation with my vet this week & see what he says, if he's reluctant to do the procedure, then I guess I will need to seek a second opinion. I guess I'm also a little scared of the operation also - the article mentions : "The veterinarian must literally hunt for the testicle, which may be located anywhere from the area around the kidney in the abdomen to the muscle near the groin". Sounds scary!

Thanks guys, I feel a bit stupid now and a bad mum for leaving this so long, but I'm glad I asked the question.

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dr.jaimie

· #5 · Jul 9, 2005

sometimes the testicles can be felt and are easier to find....it isnt that scary of an operation...just more similar to a spay then a neuter. it will cost more than a neuter so be prepared for that.

Harley & Dakotas Mum

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jul 9, 2005

Originally posted by LadyMontava@Jul 10 2005, 08:57 AM
sometimes the testicles can be felt and are easier to find....it isnt that scary of an operation...just more similar to a spay then a neuter. it will cost more than a neuter so be prepared for that.
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We can't feel them actually, so I hope there wont be too much fishing around in there to find them!

Thanks, like many of the people here, I have a 'Just for Harley' account, so thankfully, the cost will not be an issue.

jmm

· #7 · Jul 9, 2005

I strongly agree that he should be neutered. I've also heard of bilateral cryptorchid dogs being quite fertile.

As far as the urinating in the house, even if he is marking, I would treat it as a housebreaking problem. Restrict his freedom (no unsupervised wandering). Make a point to go out with him and praise him for going in the right spot. Treat him like a puppy for a while and get him back on track. Clean where he went with a good enxymatic cleaner (I use Simple Solutions).

Harley & Dakotas Mum

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jul 9, 2005

Originally posted by JMM@Jul 10 2005, 10:04 AM
I strongly agree that he should be neutered. I've also heard of bilateral cryptorchid dogs being quite fertile.

As far as the urinating in the house, even if he is marking, I would treat it as a housebreaking problem. Restrict his freedom (no unsupervised wandering). Make a point to go out with him and praise him for going in the right spot. Treat him like a puppy for a while and get him back on track. Clean where he went with a good enxymatic cleaner (I use Simple Solutions).
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I agree & will be getting him neutered. I'm quite disappointed my vet didn't alert me to the possible dangers of this in the first place. He made out it really wasn't a big deal, so of course, I took no further action.

I'll be a nervous wreck & will take whatever time off work is necessary - this is the best course of action. Thanks everyone.

How long after the procedure will he need extra special TLC?

dr.jaimie

· #9 · Jul 9, 2005

he should be back to normal in less than a week. its amazing how quickly these guys heal. i would find out what type on ansethesia the vet u choose uses, and see what types of pain meds they offer.

Harley & Dakotas Mum

Discussion Starter · #10 · Jul 9, 2005

Another silly question - now that the decision has been made to have him neutered - well, not a hard decision to make really! But will he be different after? Will his personality & temperament change at all?

dr.jaimie

· #11 · Jul 9, 2005

it shouldnt change....he just might not have the desire for woman and to mark things ..hopefully those do change. ive seen dogs the same age get neutered and it did help with this behavior.

Harley & Dakotas Mum

Discussion Starter · #12 · Jul 10, 2005

Originally posted by LadyMontava@Jul 10 2005, 10:58 AM
it shouldnt change....he just might not have the desire for woman and to mark things ..hopefully those do change. ive seen dogs the same age get neutered and it did help with this behavior.
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Great, if the marking stops after that's just a bonus! I've been reading other threads on recovery afterwards so now the challenge will be to try & keep him from bouncing around & getting some rest instead!

You mentioned earlier finding out about which ansethesia will be used - is there something I should stay away from??

dr.jaimie

· #13 · Jul 10, 2005

just make sure they use an inhalent anesthesia (isoflurane) and preferably propofol for an induction anesthetic. but the inhalent is a must. i know some vets use propofol only on certain patients b/c it decreases respiration and isnt good for some animals.

Harley & Dakotas Mum

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jul 10, 2005

Originally posted by LadyMontava@Jul 10 2005, 11:07 AM
just make sure they use an inhalent anesthesia (isoflurane) and preferably propofol for an induction anesthetic. but the inhalent is a must. i know some vets use propofol only on certain patients b/c it decreases respiration and isnt good for some animals.
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Thanks for the advice & for taking the time to reply - much appreciated!

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k/c mom

· #15 · Jul 10, 2005

Originally posted by LadyMontava@Jul 9 2005, 08:07 PM
just make sure they use an inhalent anesthesia (isoflurane) and preferably propofol for an induction anesthetic. but the inhalent is a must. i know some vets use propofol only on certain patients b/c it decreases respiration and isnt good for some animals.
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Lady M, I'm not sure I understand... when you say, " i know some vets use propofol only on certain patients b/c it decreases respiration and isnt good for some animals."... are you saying the isoflurane isn't good for some animals or the propofol isn't good for some animals? Thanks. [Ikeep all this stuff in a reference file in case I ever need it and want to make sure I understand correctly!]

dr.jaimie

· #16 · Jul 10, 2005

o ok sorry.....there are 3 phases of anesthesia....premedication(injections to relax the animal) then u have induction (used to put them out quickly and safely to but in the trach tube) then maintenance which should be gas like isoflurane.

some vets dont intubate and they just use a long acting maintenance medication...(not good)

so what i meant is some dont use propofol for induction they use something else more suitable for the patient.

isoflurane is a must
propofol is a preferable choice for induction but one i dont consider a must.

Harley & Dakotas Mum

Discussion Starter · #17 · Jul 10, 2005

Originally posted by LadyMontava@Jul 10 2005, 11:21 AM
o ok sorry.....there are 3 phases of anesthesia....premedication(injections to relax the animal) then u have induction (used to put them out quickly and safely to but in the trach tube) then maintenance which should be gas like isoflurane.

some vets dont intubate and they just use a long acting maintenance medication...(not good)

so what i meant is some dont use propofol for induction they use something else more suitable for the patient.

isoflurane is a must
propofol is a preferable choice for induction but one i dont consider a must.
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Thanks for that clarification - I only took in the part about isoflurane being a must - reading this, I will also make sure that he intubates. Is that correct? That intubating should also be a must?

k/c mom

· #18 · Jul 10, 2005

Thanks, Lady M ... I am still confused about the whole anesthesia process! Let's see if I am getting it.... If they don't intubate and use the long lasting medicine it means that the anesthesia will take longer to wear off than with something like the gas which is stopped and out of the system right away? Is that right?

Sometimes for a simple procedure my vet just sedates.... is that what you mean by "long lasting medicine"?

Once my first Malt, Rosebud, was having a procedure and the vet (not the one I use now) put her under with Ketamine (I think) and other stuff but not gas and her heart stopped twice on the table and miracle of miracles they brought her back. But my vet said he would never use that combination and also I guess they should have used gas, if it was available back then... 1992.

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Harley & Dakotas Mum

Discussion Starter · #19 · Jul 10, 2005

OK, I'm getting scared now!!

Do the risks associated with any type of surgery far outweigh the need to have him neutered?

That is, is the risk of leaving him whole more than the risk of having the surgery?

k/c mom

· #20 · Jul 10, 2005

Originally posted by HarleysMum@Jul 9 2005, 08:38 PM
OK, I'm getting scared now!!

Do the risks associated with any type of surgery far outweigh the need to have him neutered?

That is, is the risk of leaving him whole more than the risk of having the surgery?
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Oh, I forgot that the posts about anesthesia were in your thread!!

Do not let Rosebud's experience scare you. The vet used a combination of drugs he should not have used and also he was not using the safe gas that Lady M and JMM say is a must to use.

People always say a neutered male makes the perfect pet... So, I think you will be very pleased with Harley's demeanor after the neutering and it will be better for him in the long run, for sure!! Don't worry!!!

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