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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Lately I have been so busy with the family situation, and an extra workload, that I am hardly able to keep up with whats going on with everyone.
I do read most days at least. Welcome to new members, new puppies and Happy Birthdays to all whom I've missed!


Anyway this UTI has me baffled. They took blood yesterday and another urine sample and I am just waiting on the results. I did ask about a culture as JMM suggested, and they said that will be the next step. She said that since she is currently on an antibiotic, nothing will show up in the culture, so if the blood shows nothing, they will have me take her off of them and do one. Does this sound right?

The only, and I mean only symptom she has is that she is drinking and peeing constantly, and they found crystals and the infection 4 weeks ago. The sad\scary part is that she will totally saturate herself and her crate. Today is the first day we are trying to confine her in a pen-like setting with her pee pads, so I hope that works out ok. Lunchtime report is that she had not peed at all... I am leaning towards this just being an infection that they have just not found the right antibiotic. At least thats what I hope. She is actually on her 5th week of them. I will post when the results come in.

Another acheivement, is her hair around her eyes is growing! I decided to grow it in awhile ago, knowing it was going to be tough. I am waiting to post pictures until the eye hairs that were cut are able to reach her pony. But I got the first idea of what it would be like to see 'Phoebe eyes', by putting a clip above her eyes in addition to the ponytail. I think she is going to be so cute!!! So far all I have known of her is hair where her eyes should be.
It doesnt poke her eyes, but it kind of sticks up so they are always covered. She has this bushy face :new_Eyecrazy: Its red because of her teething, so very messy, but its growing in white and they have been pretty dry when teeth arent moving.
I expect she might have a white face but oh those little eyes


Anyway just wanted to keep in touch. Hope everyone is having a great summer and all the babies are doing well


janet
 

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I think I mentioned going through this with Lady last Fall. They went ahead and cultured her while she was still on Baytril because she still tested postive for infection. The bacteria grew and it turned out she needed Clavamox. Lady never had crystals, though.

Did all this happen right after her spay? My sister went through this with her young Jack Russell at about Phoebe's age. In a dog so young, they suspected an anatomical abnormality, some sort of "lip" or crevice that was holding the bacteria. They even suspected somehow she could have been nicked or injured during her spay, causing scar tissue that was trapping bacteria.

Have they done xrays yet to look for stones? I think that and a culture, even if you have to stop the antibiotics for a couple days, are in order at this point. Depending on what that shows, they may proceed to an ultrasound. That is the only way to find anatomical abnormalities.

Did you get copies of the urine test? It should show Phoebe's urine pH. "Normal" is about 6.2. Anything higher or lower creates an environment that allows stones to from. High pH especially allows bacteria to grow.

That's what it turned out to be with my sister's dog, after 3 ultrasounds and a trip to the vet school! She finally took my advice and added a cranberry supplement and Thistle FINALLY got off antibiotics after 18 months.

It can be frustrating to deal with uti's. Being diabetic, Lady is immune compromised and prone to them. She now has to stay on a maintenance dose of Clavamox or Amoxicillin just to prevent them. She has started having a problem with bacterial vaginal infections as a result of all this.

As my mother used to say, it's heck being a woman sometimes!
 

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I hope Phoebe will be better soon. Miko's vet did a urine culture prior to starting antibiotics and then again in a week after we finished the first course. Of course, the second time it showed a different bacteria. The urine culture was expensive (around $100) plus cost of urine analysis (also maybe $50 or so) - is that why your vet maybe held off on it? In people, urine culture plus what type of antibiotics the bacteria is sensitive to is always done in order to know what type of antibiotics to use. If Phoebe is on antibiotics, I think the blood culture probably wouldn't be accurate either and unless she has pylonephritis, I don't really see how it would be helpful. But, I am really not a vet. I don't know...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks guys.

All of this happened right after her spay. She came home on a 2 week round clavamox because she vomitted during surgery and they wanted to prevent pneumonia in case she had gotten any into her lungs. About 2 weeks after that round is when I knew we had a problem, and that is when they found the crystals. They put her on another 2 weeks of clavamox at a higher dose. Also 250 mg of vitamin C a day. I took her back the very day that was finishing because there was no improvement, and she has been on Cephelexin (sp?) since then, that was last monday (the 20). Still no real improvement, but maybe very slight. She had been getting up every hour or two to pee at night but now she can make it 3 or so and today it seems like she made it 3.5 hours at lunchtime.

Is Miko still not well? I would like to know how they determine which antibiotic to give to start with, if not a culture? Do they do them always in humans first? Maybe its hit or miss with animals until you have a trouble case.

I am not afraid at this point to tell them anything, so I will mention these other things. I cant wait to get on to our regularly scheduled life!

thanks again guys
 

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Miko has a UTI according to the culture but completely no symptoms. He pees anywhere from 6-12 hrs apart and doesn't strain at all. The antibiotic for him was determined by culture I guess. In people, it varies and at times, doctors will start some commonly used antibitics but obtain culture first and then change the antibiotic if needed. It all depends on the patients, frequency of UTIs etc. I am really not sure how things are normally done in dogs (JMM would have a much better answer
).

PS. I am still having trouble getting Miko to take his antibiotic pills
. We even bought a pill crusher but he seems to always outsmart us. Ughhhhhh.
 

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I have chronic sinus infections, but they don't always do a culture right off in humans, either. Since it takes several days, they usually start with an antibiotic commonly used to treat that particular infection in the beginning, too.

In dogs, that is usually Clavamox or Baytril. Most vets will start with one, then switch if there is no improvement. Has your vet tried Baytril yet? It's similar to Tequin or Levaquin for people and works on most types of bacteria.

The fact that this happened after Phoebe's spay just sounds too coincidential to me. That is the main reason my sister ended up taking Thistle to the vet school when the ultrasound done locally didn't show any anatomical defect. They suspected it could have been an injury during the surgery that was causing the urine to collect in one spot and grow bacteria.

I forgot to ask, I am assuming that Phoebe had pre-spay bloodwork and her kidney function was normal? That was another thing they checked with Lady.

Be persistant. You'll figure it out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Originally posted by okw@Jun 30 2005, 01:48 PM
PS.  I am still having trouble getting Miko to take his antibiotic pills
  .  We even bought a pill crusher but he seems to always outsmart us.  Ughhhhhh.
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I know I sound like a broken record, but did you try the ear dropper trick I described? You might need to hold him by the little beard quickly, but there is no way he should be able to get that crushed up pill out if it comes in a wet\sandy form
Phoebes all have been liquid, and so far she likes this last one, but the last one I did it that way.

I hope he gets better soon!

Phoebe had blood work before the spay. She also has not been on baytril yet, and I've been tempted just to tell them to give me that
She had an ultrasound the very first time I had her in because she was squatting and nothing coming out. Everything was normal though. Maybe this goes back to then, I dont know. That was way before the spay and she had been fine between then and the spay.

One thing that I also mentioned is that she sometimes, not often, seems like she will grunt if I hold her a certain way, like shes uncomfortable. As if they are stretching and they let out that little squeak. They said it could be because she is uncomfortable from the infection, but that worries me, too.
 

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She's on cephalexin so I don't really think it would make any difference with the culture.

Unless it is a really bad infection or an elderly animal, we usually do just a urinalysis first and antibiotics. If the first antibiotic doesn't work, we culture and then use what is indicated by the sensitivity report. Baytril is the big gun for UTIs and generally works really, really well. You want to know though before just throwing more antibiotics at it.

If after a culture and sensitivity and an extended course of antibiotics it doesn't clear up, I would schedule with an internist. Other considerations would be bladder stones (ultrasound are only as good as the person doing them and a regular vet ain't that great), incontinence, ectopic ureters, liver disease, tucked vulva or a stricture, or just a benign cystitis.

I hope with the right antibiotics things clear up. Poor girl!
 

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i agree to see an internist...it could be a conformation problem with her vulva that traps the bacteria in instead of letting the urine be flushed out of the body, or like the other problems that JMM mentioned. good luck! i hope you solve the problem soon!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Well the original vet is to call me tomorrow, but the results of the bloodwork are in. This vet said that everything seems normal. The only thing that is a little high, still normal, but in the higher normal range is her lymphosites (sp?). She said they will probably recommend doing the bloodwork again in a few weeks.

The urine came back normal but the Ph was a little low. I attribute that to the vitamin C, so I'm going to stop that for now. She said she would wait to hear from the original vet about that, but it only makes sense. Anyway, no crystals or bacteria.

When the vet calls me tomorrow, with this information, what questions would you recommend I ask? I dont want to miss anything!

thank you guys!
 

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Janet, I'm so sorry little Phoebe is still going through this
. I wish I had some advice, but once again I'm no help
. Tic, Peanut and I are sending get well wishes to your little squirt and I hope your vet can figure all this out soon!!
 

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Can we do a culture? If it is negative what internal medicine specialist do you recommend?

Your vet is a general practitioner, just like your own doctor. And vets have to know multiple species on top of it. That's why, IMO, it is important to have a vet who is willing to refer you when they don't seem to be getting an answer with the testing they've done. Heck, my internist referred me to another when she couldn't get Mikey back on his feet. I call that good medicine.
 

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Originally posted by JMM@Jun 30 2005, 04:05 PM
Can we do a culture? If it is negative what internal medicine specialist do you recommend?

Your vet is a general practitioner, just like your own doctor. And vets have to know multiple species on top of it. That's why, IMO, it is important to have a vet who is willing to refer you when they don't seem to be getting an answer with the testing they've done. Heck, my internist referred me to another when she couldn't get Mikey back on his feet. I call that good medicine.
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Our vet in LA is an internist (not a general practitioner) and I have noticed a huge difference in how she follows up and suggest other tests. She is the one who did urine cultures, etc. We probably end up paying a lot more money but I feel that for the most part she is very, very thorough and I appreciate it. We had been to one general vet who attributed anything to Miko being a "little dog". Limping, lethargy anything we mentioned was due to him being a little dog. I never went back to that guy after 2 visits.
 

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Janet, I am so sorry to hear what you've been going through with Phoebe. I know how stressful and anxiety provoking it is when going through something like this. I sure hope whatever this is is cleared up soon. My thoughts and prayers are with you and little Pheobe.... Please keep us posted!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
The vet just called. She said everything looks normal and that it could be hormonal because of the spay. She said there is medication we can try and that there is no test to prove this condition, they just go by process of elimination. I think I might just take her somewhere else first. Phoebe made it yesterday in her new environment with crate, pee pad and some toys in a small gated space. Is this strange? Out of the crate she holds it (didnt use the pads), but in the crate she doesn't? Could it be behavioral? Or that the antibitics are finally breaking this?


I am going to finish this antibiotic which will be Monday, and then see what happens by the end of the week. If there is no change for the better I will look for a specialist. I am not going the route of this vet without a second opinion.


Thanks everyone for all of your support. Phoebe does not appear to be in any pain at all, and she is acting her normal self, in case anyone is worried that she seems sickly. I hope she feels as good as she looks
she certainly is still enjoying puppyhood
 

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I have to tell you I was worried about Phoebe ("worry" is my middle name!!) from your post yesterday and I'm so glad to hear that things are not as bad as perhaps I assumed from your earlier post.

I don't know if this is relevant or not but Kallie used to pee in her crate every single day for quite a long time when she was a puppy. She finally quit but it after was weeks and weeks. I think she just got in the habit....
 
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