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I have been doing some research on vaccines because i know of too many dogs that have became ill at an early age and because now owning a dog that seems so delicate... i am very concerned with the health of kodie. I know everyone has their own feelings and there are some soon to be vets on here... i just wanted to share with everyone some things i have found... feel free to voice your opinions... i love to hear everyones views! These are different vets opinions and facts about vaccines. I am not saying i agree on all these... i have not done enough research to say that but it is interesting to read.

"All mandatory rabies vaccination programs are colorable law, in that they have been passed and mandated upon the pet owning public by certain vested interest groups. Who are these groups? First and foremost are veterinarians, in general, and veterinarian medical organizations. Second are the local animal control personnel, bureaucrats and politicians. What are their reasons? GREED, POWER AND CONTROL. Both these large powerful interest groups stand to benefit greatly by having rabies mandated by colorable law."

"Veterinarians receive a large percentage of both their gross income and profit from vaccines given in the office. On average vaccines cost 60 to 95 cents per dose and are charged to the client at $15 to $25 per injection and substantially more in the large cities. Therefore, if veterinarians lobby to have a colorable law passed to give rabies vaccine every year that enhances their financial picture."

"The vaccines, particularly rabies, are a political and economic scam being forced upon pet owners because they do not know the truth."


"Rabie Vaccines
By law, an animal must be vaccinated against rabies every three years. To protect your pet, you can request a homeopathic antidote to minimize the side effects of vaccine damage from Dr. Charlie Loops DVM. The cost is $6.00 for single doses and $15 for 1/4 ounce bottles for repeated dosing. I believe that sick animals or animals with a compromised immune system can get an examption to rabie vaccines. Check with your local animal control authorities."

"Rabies Vaccinations should be given as dictated by state laws. Lyssin, the homeopathic nosode, should be given within a few hours after the vaccination. Clearly, the rabies vaccination is effective for many years more than state laws require booster vaccination."

"My personal recommendation is NOT to vaccinate at all. The best road to good health is feeding a diet rich in fresh foods, raw meats for the carnivores, and avoiding vaccinations and allopathic medications. Antbiotics and other allopathic drugs should only be used in situations where their use is clearly indicated, and this should be only in potentially, life-threatening situations. Every time you suppress a symptom the body produces, you are potentially lowering the health status of the body system. Treating with the correctly prescribed, homeopathic remedy, herbs, or other non-invasive therapies, not of a chemical nature, will enhance your health and your companions health.

1. Puppies under three months of age should not be vaccinated.
2. Kittens should only be vaccinated for Panleukopenia and not before three months of age.
3. Puppies and kittens can be given homeopathic nosodes beginning at three weeks of age
4. Booster vaccinations are completely unnecessary.
7. My personal recommendation is NOT to vaccinate at all (Click the headline for details) "

"Booster vaccinations are completely unnecessary. Studies are now showing that these vaccinations are effective for many years and most probably for life. Vaccinated animals do not need any boosters. Homeopathic nosodes can be given periodically if you are concerned or if you think your animals live a high risk, life style."

"Vaccinations: All Veterinary Schools in North America Changing Vaccination Protocols - Recent editions of the Senior Dogs Project's newsletter have reported on the ever-broadening trend of eliminating vaccinations for adult dogs, except for rabies, where required by state law. We have now had a report that all 27 veterinary schools in North America are in the process of changing their protocols for vaccinating dogs and cats. Here, in a nutshell, are the new guidelines under consideration: "Dogs and cats immune systems mature fully at 6 months. If a modified live virus (MLV) vaccine is given after 6 months of age, it produces immunity, which is good for the life of the pet (i.e., canine distemper, parvo, feline distemper). If another MLV vaccine is given a year later, the antibodies from the first vaccine neutralize the antigens of the second vaccine and there is little or no effect. The titer is not 'boosted' nor are more memory cells induced."

"Not only are annual boosters for parvo and distemper unnecessary, they subject the pet to potential risks of allergic reactions and immune-mediated hemolytic anemia. There is no scientific documentation to back up label claims for annual administration of MLV vaccines. Puppies receive antibodies through their mothers milk. This natural protection can last 8-14 weeks. Puppies and kittens should NOT be vaccinated at LESS than 8 weeks. Maternal immunity will neutralize the vaccine and little protection (0-38%) will be produced. Vaccination at 6 weeks will, however, delay the timing of the first highly effective vaccine. Vaccinations given 2 weeks apart suppress rather than stimulate the immune system. A series of vaccinations is given starting at 8 weeks and given 3-4 weeks apart up to 16 weeks of age. Another vaccination given sometime after 6 months of age (usually at 1 year 4 months) will provide lifetime immunity."

"As far as prevention goes, this is a sticky wicket. There is a great deal of controversy concerning the dog Lyme vaccine. There is a great debate about how well they actually work as well as potential side effects. There are publications concerning its safety, but the researchers only look 24 hours after the vaccine reaction. Research at Cornell University veterinary school brings up some suspicion that there may be potential long term side effects of the vaccine, though nothing is certain. These side effects may vary from rheumatoid arthritis and all the major symptoms of lyme disease to acute kidney failure. Though nothing is definitively documented, I personally am very cautious and do not recommend vaccinating for Lyme disease even though it is so epidemic here. Many veterinary schools and major veterinary centers do not recommend the vaccine for the same concern regarding potential side effects. I have seen all the symptoms of Lyme disease in dogs four to eight weeks after the vaccine and when I sent the western blot test to Cornell, it shows no evidence of the disease, only evidence of the dog having been vaccinated, yet the dog shows all the classic symptoms of the disease. There is a new dog vaccine out that claims that it does not have any of the side effects, however, I still remain cautious and will wait for a year or two to see. I personally would rather treat my dog for Lyme disease rather than risking the potential side effects of the vaccine. In addition, there is a question of actually how well it works. Until more safety and decreased risk of side effects and efficacy are demonstrated, I recommend holding off."

""Routine" vaccination, as it is practiced today, is not always effective (especially in the case of the feline leukemia vaccine), and frequently has adverse side-effects, either short or long term. With the use of multivalent (combination: 4 in 1, 6 in 1, etc.) vaccines that are repeated year after year, the frequency and severity of these side-effects in our pets has increased dramatically.

Not surprisingly, most of the problems involve the immune system. After all, the immune system is what vaccines are designed to stimulate. But they do so in a very unnatural way that can overwhelm and confuse the immune system. The body may overreact to normally harmless substances (allergies, especially flea allergies and other skin problems), or even produce antibodies to itself (autoimmune disease). At the same time, the body may be sluggish in responding to those things that it should reject, such as common viruses, bacteria, fungi, and parasites. This can result in increased susceptibility to acute infections (such as ear infections in dogs, bladder infections in cats), chronic tapeworm problems, or in more degenerative cases, cancer."


This is where i found these quotes...
research
 

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I don't know much except this from my own experience...

My grandmother's vet told her that inside cats did not need yearly vaccinations...so after all my cats' initial shots, I did not give them any more.
When Sandi became ill last year, and I talked to MY vet, I asked if giving her the vaccinations would have prevented her feline leukemia. The original vet I took her to when I found her as a stray gave her the initial vaccine, but did not do the f-l test. He said that Sandi probably lived a longer life by NOT getting the vaccines...that if I had given her the yearly shots (since she already had the feline leukemia when we got her, even though we didn't know it) that she probably would have actually showed the symptoms and gotten sicker alot sooner. We had her for almost 10 years...so that was great to him...he said we were lucky.
BUT, it freaked my out so badly, that I got ALL my other cats tested and vaccinated the very next day and will continue to get their yearly vaccinations now that i know they are negative for the test. Just for my own piece of mind.
We get all the dogs vaccinated yearly-per the local rabies law...
 

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I recommend that before anyone recommends not vaccinating at all that they watch a litter of puppies die from parvo. Once you have smelled parvo, you don't forget it.

Vaccines were created to save out animals from some very serious infectious diseases that many, many dogs and cats died from as well as, in the case of Rabies, to protect humans from contracting the virus. Before people throw out all of the vaccines, they need to remember just why we started vaccinating in the first place. Parvo is not extinct by any means nor is distemper, hepatitis, adenovirus, or rabies.

Homeopathic nosodes have been proven in studies to be completely inaffective (even Dr. Jean Dodds does not recommend them).

The lifetime immunity hypothesis has not yet been proven with challenge studies, but it would be nice. Challenge studies have shown that the vast majority of animals are protected for 3 years and many even longer. The three year protocol is based on this challenge study.

Most vets do not vaccinate animals because they are evil people, but because that is the protocol that they were taught in vet school. Yes, it is a business and they need to make money, but a good vet is not purposefully making money through shoddy practices. Do expect some prices to be raised to compensate for the decrease in income from vaccines. Now that I know how expensive it is to run a veterinary hospital, the prices do not surprise me at all. It is not a cheap endeavor and trust me, the staff is not getting paid all that great.

Rabies depends on the area of the country you are in. In some placed in Canada I know people are not required to get the vaccine. In my area, we do find rabid animals and requiring the 3 yr vaccine is quite reasonable as is recommending heart worm preventative year round. It depends on the environment.
 

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JMM, you make a lot of sense. I got careless one year when Gertie's (lab mix) heartworm meds ran out and I procrastinated in getting them refilled. That's right, my sweet baby got heartworms and I wanted to throw up every time she got one of two injections in her hip to kill the heartworms. It raised a huge hard lump and I could tell she was in a great deal of pain. I was just sick at my carelessness.

It's such a fine line to walk with Pico, though, because he has such violent reactions to past vaccinations that my vet won't vaccinate him for anything but bordatella now.
 

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Pico's Parent, each dog is an individual case. A dog with severe reactions or immune problems the costs of vaccinating far outweight the good it would do. I just don't think it is wise to throw it all out the window. This is why it is so important to shop around for a vet and find one you are really comfortable dealing with.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Originally posted by JMM@Feb 23 2005, 10:29 PM
Pico's Parent, each dog is an individual case. A dog with severe reactions or immune problems the costs of vaccinating far outweight the good it would do. I just don't think it is wise to throw it all out the window. This is why it is so important to shop around for a vet and find one you are really comfortable dealing with.
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i really wish the vet i feel comfortable with was a regular vet... hes a surgan and works at a 24/hr vet specialists hospital, 1hr away from my house..

Anyone know of any good vets around atlantic county, NJ?
 

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I don't get Fantasia vaccinated anymore except rabies and that's only because it's the law. My vet explained the risks and said that she agreed with me she just had to go over the risks with me. Fantasia doesn't really go outside and when she does it's not for long. She does get heartworm every month all year round because I won't mess with heartworm. Since we get all sorts of bugs in the house including mosquitoes I wouldn't chance it.
There was an animal abuse story on the news yesterday. The dog had been hit by a car 2 years ago and the owner didn't take him to the vet because she said she couldn't afford it. The dog was a mix breed and lived tied up outside the owner’s house. I think it was in Philla. Anyway the dog had a broken leg that healed wrong. If you put your hand on the table palm up and arm straight up (so your palm faces your arm not just empty air) that's how this dog's front leg was. He walked around on this nub of a leg and limped because of it. It was so sad. Now that he's been taken away from her they think his leg will have to be amputated. He also has heartworm and lime disease.
I think that dogs deserve to live in the house with the family but if you have an outdoor dog I would vaccinate for everything. They are exposed to that stuff 24/7 when they live outside.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Originally posted by FannyMay@Feb 24 2005, 10:55 AM
I don't get Fantasia vaccinated anymore except rabies and that's only because it's the law.  My vet explained the risks and said that she agreed with me she just had to go over the risks with me.  Fantasia doesn't really go outside and when she does it's not for long.  She does get heartworm every month all year round because I won't mess with heartworm.  Since we get all sorts of bugs in the house including mosquitoes I wouldn't chance it.
There was an animal abuse story on the news yesterday.  The dog had been hit by a car 2 years ago and the owner didn't take him to the vet because she said she couldn't afford it.  The dog was a mix breed and lived tied up outside the owner’s house.  I think it was in Philla.  Anyway the dog had a broken leg that healed wrong.  If you put your hand on the table palm up and arm straight up (so your palm faces your arm not just empty air) that's how this dog's front leg was.  He walked around on this nub of a leg and limped because of it.  It was so sad.  Now that he's been taken away from her they think his leg will have to be amputated.  He also has heartworm and lime disease. 
I think that dogs deserve to live in the house with the family but if you have an outdoor dog I would vaccinate for everything.  They are exposed to that stuff 24/7 when they live outside.
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I heard about that too!  I saw the dog on the news.  Sadddd story. 
 

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Hi everyone!! I too have done much reading on the subject of vacinations. We do have incidences of rabies in our county as we are still quite "wild" in areas. We even have a group of bats living outside in the cubby holes on the back porch! They are great little critters for cleaning up the mosquitoes, so they do their job, and we leave them be. Rabies vaccine is a must for us, as is the parvo (very high rates of parvo in Pima County). I had a dog, years ago, that had parvo, (yes JMM I STILL remember that smell). Apache was one of the lucky ones, she survived. The vet wanted to put her down, but I knew she was a fighter so with my medical background, getting up every 2 hours all night for weeks and doing IV's was not an issue with me. She lived to be the ripe old age of 15! We discussed Lyme disease with our Vet, she felt there was no need for that shot as we are in an area that is void of Lyme disease. I solidly agree with all puppy shots and vaccines, I do not however, believe in constantly "boosting" them year after year....except for the Rabies and Parvo...JMHO. We had "out door" dogs for years that received all their puppy shots and then never another one their entire lives and all lived to be "oldsters".
 

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Because of Lady's diabetes and compromised immune system, my vet and I decided not to vaccinate her anymore. She most likely had all her puppy shots since she'd been spayed when I adopted her and then had vaccinations by my vet at age 4 and 5. We did not titer her since our decision would be the same. She also doesn't come in close contact with any other dogs than those that belong to my immediate family that I know are current on vaccinations.

It also is a great excuse to give those idiots we meet out walking who have a huge dog and want their dog to "meet" tiny Lady! When I explain that she is diabetic and can pick up virues, etc, easily, they back off.

Here in North Carolina we have to do the rabies shot every 3 years, so Lady got her shot last year. She was also sick for 4 days even with a full dose of steriods everyday. I weighed the alternative of having to have her quarentined and decided that would jeopardize her health more.

So I have 2 more years until I have to face that decision again....

For my indoor cats, I follow the every 3 year protocol advised by many vet schools now. They don't come in contact with any other cats and are never boarded (I just have someone come to the house if I will be gone more than overnight).
 

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the vet school teaches us every three years...but many vets have not switched over yet. it is hard when u were taught every year and have been doing it for over 20 years and now its every three. so i can see why some havent switched yet. but i do feel it is important to get those vax...i've seen many dogs w/ parvo, and a couple with distemper..its a horrible way to go, and i don't wish it on any dog. but if ur vet still does it every year, i say get some literature from a vet school and bring it to him...even if he doesnt want to switch over yet, maybe he will just for u...it's a start
 

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Originally posted by JMM@Feb 23 2005, 06:18 PM
I recommend that before anyone recommends not vaccinating at all that they watch a litter of puppies die from parvo. Once you have smelled parvo, you don't forget it.

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Piccolina died of Parvo and you are right...I will never forget it. It's so bad that when Bella throws up, I freak out! When I got Bella, I made sure that she didn't leave the house until she had all her shots. There are too many deadly deseases out there not to take care of your dog. Would you not vaccinate your children...I think not. Now about the booster shots...I don't know much about that.
 

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Rabies vaccination should be given every 3 years? Are you using the same rabies medicine with the 3 yr vaccination as you do with the one? Or is the 3 yr one more potent or something?
 

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Originally posted by ButterCloudandNoriko@Feb 24 2005, 01:09 PM
Rabies vaccination should be given every 3 years?  Are you using the same rabies medicine with the 3 yr vaccination as you do with the one?  Or is the 3 yr one more potent or something?
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Depending on what state you live in, you either have to give the rabies shot every year or every 3 years. The irony is that it's the same vaccine (Defensor), just packaged differently by Pfizer according to the state requirement's!

I am so glad I live in a 3 year state (North Carolina).
 

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Discussion Starter #17
What i dont understand is... i thought NJ is a 3yr state... my vet told me that kodie is due for his rabie shot at the age of 1 1/2yrs old... so what was his first rabie shot for then? He received his 1st rabie shot after all of his puppy shots. could someone please explain this.
 

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Humm if I remember for Fantasia the second rabies shot is like a booster. I think my vet told me that she would get the one rabies shot and then a year later get her 3 year rabies shot. I am not sure if that's right though.

When I first got Fantasia she had some of her puppy shots and we took her to the vet for the rest of them (since we got her at 7 weeks). She has had all her puppy shots and even some of her adult boosters. We decided to stop giving vaccinations because she was over vaccinated when she was a puppy and when she got her adult boosters she started having slight reactions. She wasn't having seizures and throwing up or anything but she was lethargic and she would get bumps (I know that's normal for some vaccinations). She would sleep all day after her vaccination and shake really bad (not seizures but more like she was cold). Even if we tried to play with her or just pick her up she would just lay back down. She was so limp and her belly was so hard. We just decided she was better off without her vaccinations.

Oh and my vet said even though NJ is a 3 year state they reccomend and do the rabies shot every 2 years. I told them Fantasia will only get hers every 3 and we will see if they agree because this year will be 2 years.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Originally posted by FannyMay@Feb 24 2005, 01:41 PM
Oh and my vet said even though NJ is a 3 year state they reccomend and do the rabies shot every 2 years.  I told them Fantasia will only get hers every 3 and we will see if they agree because this year will be 2 years.
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This is what i'm talkin about... why do they recommend 2yrs instead of 3?????? I dont understand the rabie shot at all. its the same vaccine for 1yr, 2yrs, 3yrs doses.? Which i dont think makes sense. Kodie also gets lumps from a rabie shot.... and its making it really difficult for me to handle giving it to him so many times. I have given kodie allll of his vaccines so its not like i'm against vaccines. Hes only due for rabies. Why cant a rabie shot work like a booster... take a titer test to check immunity? (I dont know much about science so sorry if my thinking isnt correct) My vet said i could do a titer test when his next booster is due because he may not need one. I totally agree with that. but I heard that titer tests are not even accurate now.. is that true?
 

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This does not make sense! Does the rabies vaccination protect them for up to 3 yrs? If so, why take it every year when it's the same dose as the 1 yr vaccination?
 
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