[Sunshine]

Wow, I haven’t been here in so long. I’ve had so much going on, that I’ve sort of ‘fallen out’ of my online communities.

So first off, hello again to everyone. I've missed you all! I hope I can be a part of this forum again, as things are slowing down for me now

I am having some big problems with Abby. She was always so well behaved, but now… well this morning would be a fine example. This morning, I put her in the laundry - she stuffed about and carried on and knocked my dad's weed eater over (which I had put in there to keep out of the rain) - now the plastic guard is busted (still attached though). Well from the noise from that she bolted. I called her back again and again and she'd come but then dive out of the way when I went to pick her up (this was actually with loving intentions – to cuddle her and tell her it was okay). This went on for about 10 minutes. So I decided to do what the books said and just glare at her and walk toward her. Went around the yard (around the house) 1.5 times and it was doing nothing, she just kept running.

I turned away from her in pure frustration, not knowing what I was going to do - it was now 5 to 8 and I was meant to be at work. If I wasn't worried that she'd get out under the fence or something, I would have just left her there – I was that angry! Anyway, when I turned around she ran back at me. So I swung round and grabbed her, told her she was a naughty girl and put her in the laundry and just walked away.

I hate leaving her like that (after being mean to her), but the little cow deserved it. Not only did she make me late for work, but now I also have to explain to my dad why I broke his weed eater. He won't be at all impressed and I can’t afford to buy him a new one.

I think it's time to go back to naughty dog school. Can I please have some tips on how to regain her respect (I’m assuming it is because she has lost respect for me) and how to retrain her. She's got to learn she's not the one in charge.

Will I have to change the names of all commands for her in order to retrain?

Please please PLEASE give me tips! I’m going to go crazy if I don’t sort her out soon.

Also, she usually sleeps on my bed – but I’m thinking now that I should put her back in her crate at night time. Is that wise? I know she will cry for a few nights etc – but I’m sure I have read that sleeping on your bed makes them think that they are ‘equal’…???

I'm a failed mummy

 

[jmm]

The first big problem here is that you got upset with her for a normal reaction. You've heard of fight or flight? She was using her flight response to a very scarey situation (weed wacker crashing). You made it worse by confronting her, getting upset, and making the whole situation even more scarey and intimidating. Glaring at a dog is not going to make them come to you. It is a challenging and aggressive behavior.

The best thing to do in this situation is to happily run away from the dog. You can get a really yummy treat, too.

A solid recall under stressful circumstances takes a lot of work. It is certainly something you can do. Never ask a dog to come with their formal recall command unless you know they will come.

I would get her into a basic obedience class, more for you to understand how dogs learn than for her to get to know the basics. Look for a class that is on the smaller side and uses positive, motivational methods based on learning theory (like clicker training). No corrections are necessary. Run from a class that encourages leash corrections, choke or pinch collars, or other verbal corrections. You don't actually need them.

You don't have to change her cues. However, I would probably change her formal recall cue. If you are always telling her to come or come here or whatever your word is, and she doesn't do it, that word doesn't have a lot of meaning.

 

[Sunshine]

Thanks JMM. I do understand what you are saying. I wasn't at the same spot that the noise had gone off and I was calling in a happy voice at first, trying to get her to come. I didn't think of it the way you have said, but you are right. I thought that by calling her in a friendly voice and giving her some cuddles and kisses, that she would think it was okay. I was trying to do a nice thing - I was trying to settle her and let her know I loved her and she was okay and not to be frightened.

But she has been being quite ignorant when told to come for a little while, so I became impatient with her and just thought she was being ignorant again and she was okay about the whole noise thing. I felt like I was getting a slap in the face for trying to be nice to her

I don't know, I guess I was just tired and panicking because I needed to get to work and she wasn't cooperating. She's never been that naughty before - and of course, I'm stupid to realise that the fright would have done that to her.

I know it's completely my fault for her behaviour - it will be because of something I have done or failed to do that she is behaving in this manner. I just want to fix it.

And I won't believe that book I read ever again. I'm going to throw it out this afternoon. They said that doing that was a good thing to do - not that it would make my poor baby scared and intimidated.

So much for spending my money on something that I thought would be a positive thing to have!

As far as training, she knows all the basic commands - it's just that she has been lax in them lately - ie she doesn't want to sit when she's told and it takes three or four times saying it for her to obey. And come has gradually been getting worse. I'd call her and she'd 'saunter' and take all day - or go the long route to get back to where I was... things like that... but I didn't know how to respond to that, so I'd just call again and wait for her to come and then praise her.....??

Now I need to think of a new word for come

....

 

[doctorcathy]

i never call the dogs towards me when im angry.

and the dog breaking the weed thingy was your fault---not hers.

when the dogs do something bad...i just say bad dog. they dont really get punishment. or if they're doing something they arent allowed to do (like gruffi trying to give my grandma kisses on her face---and she's freaking out)....then i tell him to down stay next to her and that he can only lick her hands.

a new word for come is "return"

but your'e gonna start leash training her all over to teach that new word.

 

[puppylucy]

don't call yourself "failed." you can't put all the blame on yourself

 

[Sunshine]

Originally posted by doctorcathy@Sep 12 2005, 01:19 PM
i never call the dogs towards me when im angry. 

and the dog breaking the weed thingy was your fault---not hers. 

when the dogs do something bad...i just say bad dog.  they dont really get punishment.  or if they're doing something they arent allowed to do (like gruffi trying to give my grandma kisses on her face---and she's freaking out)....then i tell him to down stay next to her and that he can only lick her hands. 

a new word for come is "return" 

  but your'e gonna start leash training her all over to teach that new word. 

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[/QUOTE]

I know it was my fault for the weed eater - I should have taken it out before I put her in there. I didn't mean to imply that I thought that was her fault.

And I wasn't angry at her at first. I was worried about her when I called her. I was calling her to give her a cuddle and make sure she was okay. I got frustrated after I had called her a number of times and she still wouldn't come to me. She would walk towards me and then run away, then come closer and run away again. The reason I didn't realise it would have been from fright is because in recent months she has taken this up - like she thinks it's a game - and I've been trying to encourage her not to do it - I thought that she was just playing at that silly game again, and when the clocks ticking and you have to be at work, it can get a little frustrating. I've never EVER called her and smacked her - in fact I've never smacked her. Even when I did catch her I didn't. I had no intentions on - I just wanted to get her into the room so I could get to work.

And I wasn't going to deal out punishment to her. It wasn't her fault. I know that. I was going to cuddle her and then put her in the laundry. She goes to the laundry every day while I am at work - her toys and food and water bowls, blanket and crate are all in there. She wasn't being put in there as a punishment. If she's naughty I say "bad girl. Shame on you" and then ignore her - which is what I did once I finally caught her this time. Yes, I realise now that I shouldn't have gotten cranky at her. I didn't realise she was still frightened. I acknowledge that. But I'm not a cruel person. I didn't do it deliberately - I would never have been cranky at her if I knew she was frightened.

I used "here" as a new command yesterday afternoon. She seems to be doing okay with it so far. She also tends to "down" when I tell her to "sit" (I think my parents have been using "sit down" as the command, so she has 'combined' the two. She started to get "sit" and "down" as two separate commands again yesterday.

 

[k/c mom]

There's no need to "beat yourself up", Sunshine. The fact that you posted the situation here on SM shows that you knew things weren't right and you wanted to make it better. I remember when I had my first Malt back in the early l990s and how overwhelmed I was with all the little things, like you mentioned. There is just soooo much to know about Malts and dogs, in general. JMM gave you some wonderful advice, so hopefully things will get better for you and your baby!!

 

[jmm]

Dogs don't do things to please us. They do things because there is something in it for them. This includes sit, down, come, etc. It doesn't sound like she has much motivation to do these behaviors nor is she consistent with cues for behaviors. This can all easily be fixed, starting from the basics again.

Again, I'll recommend a positive-based obedience class to get you moving.

 

[doctorcathy]

it is SOOO hard to ignore them when they're scared. like when we do somethig (dropping a plate, throwing something too close to them, or anything else that would freak them out) and when they act scared...you just turn around and ignore them.

you should even try practicing it so that they arent scared of loud noises. like a broom falling near them or something.

and sorry if i sounded harsh saying that it was your fault---but thats how the dog breeder used to talk to me. LOL. and it really stuck---obviously. lol.

good luck!!! and enjoy your baby!!

 

[Sunshine]

Originally posted by JMM@Sep 12 2005, 07:40 PM
Dogs don't do things to please us. They do things because there is something in it for them. This includes sit, down, come, etc. It doesn't sound like she has much motivation to do these behaviors nor is she consistent with cues for behaviors. This can all easily be fixed, starting from the basics again.

Again, I'll recommend a positive-based obedience class to get you moving.
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[/QUOTE]

Thank you JMM, I am looking into it. I appreciate your advice.

And thanks Kallie/Catcher's Mom - Things had been so good, but it's just like when she hit 12 months old she decided that she knew everything and she wouldn't listen! She's 14 months old now.

And Cathy, I know you didn't mean to sound harsh. I got on my defence a little bit too there because I really didn't do any of this intentionally - I knew it was my fault over the weed eater, but my biggest concern for me was the fact that I hadn't realised she was scared still and I lost my patience with her. I do appreciate what you are saying though

Abby has always been very 'jumpy' - ever since I got her. The breeder told me she was like that and asked me if I still wanted her because of it. Of course I said yes, because I don't mind... but it is a little strange. I've never had to do more than clap my hands once if she was pottying in the house - and she'd near jump out of her skin! She hates when I bang dishes (by accident) and freaks if I drop something and it makes a noise. I've never made a big deal out of it unless it was like the weed eater - she's lucky it didn't fall on her and it was a very loud bang - you know, if it was close to her (like if she was at my feet and I dropped a pot or pan right down beside her), otherwise I just say "what's the matter baby? it's ok" just in a normal voice (not a whiney babying voice).

Is there something I can do to help with that? I thought she'd grow out of it, but apparently not...

Is there

 

[k/c mom]

Originally posted by Sunshine@Sep 13 2005, 04:22 AM
Abby has always been very 'jumpy' - ever since I got her. The breeder told me she was like that and asked me if I still wanted her because of it. Of course I said yes, because I don't mind... but it is a little strange. I've never had to do more than clap my hands once if she was pottying in the house - and she'd near jump out of her skin! She hates when I bang dishes (by accident) and freaks if I drop something and it makes a noise. I've never made a big deal out of it unless it was like the weed eater - she's lucky it didn't fall on her and it was a very loud bang - you know, if it was close to her (like if she was at my feet and I dropped a pot or pan right down beside her), otherwise I just say "what's the matter baby? it's ok" just in a normal voice (not a whiney babying voice).

Is there something I can do to help with that? I thought she'd grow out of it, but apparently not...

Is there
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[/QUOTE]

Kallie is like that too. When she was younger she would go running from the kitchen if I made any banging noises at all. She just hated the kitchen because it is a noisy place. A trainer said she was "noise shy" and that I shouldn't use things like a can of coins, etc. on her because she was just too sensitive. For both K & C I have to speak softly and if there are any loud noises or if I speak the least bit harshly, their ears go down and they look so scared. They are just sensitive babies and I like to treat them very gently.

 

[Ladysmom]

We did a book club reading of the Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson here on SM this past winter. I highly recommend it. It gives a lot of insight about how dogs think, what motivates them, etc. If you understand how their mind works, it's much easier to get them to cooperate. One thing the book stresses is that people shouldn't make the mistake of attaching human emotions to dogs which it sounds like you might be doing with Abbey.

A general rule of thumb for training is that if you are frustrated and upset, end the training session. Things will just go from bad to worse if you continue. It's always good to end on a happy note. Pick something Abbey has down cold, ask her to do that, then praise her like crazy when she does.

 

[ilove_d&m]

Originally posted by Kallie/Catcher's Mom+Sep 13 2005, 06:15 AM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Sunshine

@Sep 13 2005, 04:22 AM
Abby has always been very 'jumpy' - ever since I got her. The breeder told me she was like that and asked me if I still wanted her because of it. Of course I said yes, because I don't mind... but it is a little strange. I've never had to do more than clap my hands once if she was pottying in the house - and she'd near jump out of her skin! She hates when I bang dishes (by accident) and freaks if I drop something and it makes a noise. I've never made a big deal out of it unless it was like the weed eater - she's lucky it didn't fall on her and it was a very loud bang - you know, if it was close to her (like if she was at my feet and I dropped a pot or pan right down beside her), otherwise I just say "what's the matter baby? it's ok" just in a normal voice (not a whiney babying voice).

Is there something I can do to help with that? I thought she'd grow out of it, but apparently not...

Is there
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Kallie is like that too. When she was younger she would go running from the kitchen if I made any banging noises at all. She just hated the kitchen because it is a noisy place. A trainer said she was "noise shy" and that I shouldn't use things like a can of coins, etc. on her because she was just too sensitive. For both K & C I have to speak softly and if there are any loud noises or if I speak the least bit harshly, their ears go down and they look so scared. They are just sensitive babies and I like to treat them very gently.
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[/B][/QUOTE]

Maya is the same way "noise shy"
when she hears a loud noise she runs upstairs or hide in bathroom under the toilet
hubby and I cant talk loud because she runs to hide. When we argue, we calm down because of her