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Discussion Starter #1

I've been trying to get this question answer being that I am about to be a first time pet owner, I need all the help and advised I can get.

Please enlighten me,

Thanks.
 

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it means they could be a puppy mill..if u search the forum for "usda" u can find more posts on this topic
 

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Oh wow, I just purchased a puppy and found out about this list today.

Oh my God .

The person I purchaed the puppy from is on this list.


:new_Eyecrazy:
 

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well i dont know a lot about puppy mills myself..but others do, and when they get online they can tell u about it...but i think n e breeder who has more than 4 intact bitches has to be on the usda list...so i dont know if it means for sure they r a puppy mill.
 

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These things can happen. It is good you found out sooner than later. Do read the archives in the puppymill and breeder's section of the forum and you will see a lot of good information. One of the reasons not to buy from a USDA breeder is because they likely are in it just for the money and you could very likely end up with a puppy that has health issues. Can you rescend the sale and start over?

One of the reasons for USDA is that these folks usually sell to pet stores and they need the USDA stamp of approval before purchasing puppies. And anyone who sells to pet stores is considered to be a puppymill or to be in the same class as one.

Let us know if we can help in any way.....
 

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Breeders on the list are those that are licensed to own a number of breeding dogs and produce a certain volume of puppies and must adhere to USDA licensing regulations. This means that there is a potential that the breeder sells to brokers, who then sell to pet stores selling puppies with no concern for the well being of the puppy.

What this also means is that there is the potential that the breeder is a puppy mill, meaning that he or she keeps lots of breeding dogs in horrendous living conditions, using them to breed litter after litter, perhaps never letting them out of a cage. Some of them stack cage upon cage and the feces from one cage falls onto the other. This also means that the little Malties are neither groomed nor socialized. Some of them develop serious injuries or illnesses that go untreated. All of them live a miserable and cruel existence. Many puppies born into these conditions develop serious health problems and may not even make it through their first year.

However, puppy mills often don't sell to individuals, and don't let people on the premises to see the puppies. If your breeder let you visit with the parents and visit the areas where she or he keeps the dogs, there's a chance that he or she is on the USDA breeder list because of the number of breeding dogs s/he has and not because s/he runs a puppy mill. And, not all USDA breeders produce unhealthy puppies.
 

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Originally posted by SylphidesMom@Jan 23 2005, 03:02 PM
Breeders on the list are those that are licensed to own a number of breeding dogs and produce a certain volume of puppies and must adhere to USDA licensing regulations.  This means that  there is a potential that the breeder sells to brokers, who then sell to pet stores selling puppies with no concern for the well being of the puppy.

What this also means is that there is the potential that the breeder is a puppy mill, meaning that he or she keeps lots of breeding dogs in horrendous living conditions, using them to breed litter after litter, perhaps never letting them out of a cage.  Some of them stack cage upon cage and the feces from one cage falls onto the other.  This also means that the little Malties are neither groomed nor socialized.  Some of them develop serious injuries or illnesses that go untreated.  All of them live a miserable and cruel existence.  Many puppies born into these conditions develop serious health problems and may not even make it through their first year.

However, puppy mills often don't sell to individuals, and don't let people on the premises to see the puppies.  If your breeder let you visit with the parents and visit the areas where she or he keeps the dogs, there's a chance that he or she is on the USDA breeder list because of the number of breeding dogs s/he has and not because s/he runs a puppy mill.  And, not all USDA breeders produce unhealthy puppies.
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Zoe's Mom, have you actually picked the puppy up yet? If not, I urge you to get out of this deal even if it means losing a down payment.

You don't want a puppy mill puppy from a USDA breeder. Even the "best" puppy mills (if there is such a thing) raise their puppies like rabbits in wire cages. There is a tremendous difference between this type of puppy and one who is lovingly home raised with people. Just like with human babies, the first few weeks are very critical to their mental development. Puppy mill pups can be nearly impossible to completely housebreak and socialize. They can be fearful and hyper and many develop aggressive tendencies when they mature. Thet can carry a host of genetic "time bombs" since they are not screened for genetic defects. It may be years before these problems surface and it can be financially and emotionally devastating to deal with the results.

My Lady is from a pet shop/puppy mill. She is a rescue (I adopted her at age 4) and she has epilepsy, diabetes and a heart murmur, all genetic diseases. She also has horrible arthritis (the skeletal system of a much older dog). I have spent thousands of dollars in vet bills to keep her going. Her monthly "maintenance" medications and diabetic supplies alone cost me $150. I am fortunate to have a fabulous vet and the resources of the NC State Vet School here, if needed, and she is doing amazingly well despite all her health problems.

I assumed the responsibilty for her when I adopted her and will do whatever it takes to give her the best life possible becuase I love and adore her. But I would not wish this on any one else. I live in fear of losing her (she has nearly died twice in the past couole of years). I treasure each and every day I have with her, not knowly how many more we will have together.

You have the opportunity to start a wonderful 15 year relationship with a Maltese. Do the most important thing. Start with the healthiest puppy from the best breeder you can find and afford. Do not get a puppy from a USDA breeder or you may face heartache and huge vet bills instead of wonderful happy times.
 

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Originally posted by LadyMontava@Jan 23 2005, 03:47 PM
well i dont know a lot  about puppy mills myself..but others do, and when they get online they can tell u about it...but i think n e breeder who has more than 4 intact bitches has to be on the usda list...so i dont know if it means for sure they r a puppy mill.
Just to try to clarify this a little ~~

Being USDA licensed has nothing to do with the number of dogs anyone owns or has (intact or not).

However, one MUST be licensed if they broker .... or breed to sell to petstores, etc. for re-sale AND make over a certain amount of money (annually) doing this.....can't recall the dollar amount but it is not very high (it's something like $500. per yr). Anyone who strictly sells privately is NOT required to be USDA licensed (again, regardless of the number of dogs they own).
IF only the number of intact dogs was the requirement for being USDA, then about ALL breeders would be on the list.

Again, my memory is not what it used to be.....but I do believe those are the basic requirements of being USDA.
 

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Marj,
You do such a great service when you tell your and Lady's story. I'm just curious - after all that you've gone through with Lady, down the road will you get another Malt? I KNOW you'd get one from a breeder, but I was just curious as to whether you'd stick with the breed?
Susan
 

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[/QUOTE]

Just to try to clarify this a little ~~

Being USDA licensed has nothing to do with the number of dogs anyone owns or has (intact or not).

However, one MUST be licensed if they broker .... or breed to sell to petstores, etc. for re-sale AND make over a certain amount of money (annually) doing this.....can't recall the dollar amount but it is not very high (it's something like $500. per yr). Anyone who strictly sells privately is NOT required to be USDA licensed (again, regardless of the number of dogs they own).
IF only the number of intact dogs was the requirement for being USDA, then about ALL breeders would be on the list.

Again, my memory is not what it used to be.....but I do believe those are the basic requirements of being USDA.
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[/QUOTE]

Actually, The Animal Welfare Act requires that anyone with 4 or more intact bitches must be licensed as a breeder with the USDA. I think you may be confusing the licensing requirements for brokers.
 

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Originally posted by msmagnolia@Jan 25 2005, 10:47 AM
Marj,
You do such a great service when you tell your and Lady's story.  I'm just curious - after all that you've gone through with Lady, down the road will you get another Malt?  I KNOW you'd get one from a breeder, but I was just curious as to whether you'd stick with the breed? 
Susan
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Good question!

I am hopelessly smitten with Maltese so switching breeds isn't an option. I always rescue, but knowing that probably most rescues come from pet shops or back yard breeders as a reputable breeder would take a dog back, I would be a little leery now.

Maybe adopt a retired female from a great breeder? Or go against principle and get a puppy?

Truthfully, I probably would end up with another rescue. I just believe so strongly in it and feel they are so special. Daily injections, blood testing, holding her during seizures, etc., has bonded Lady and I even more closely than if she were a healthy dog.

I have always felt that rescues sort of find me, that I end up with the ones I am supposed to have. Lady was literally in my backyard eventhough I swore I wouldn't get another dog after I lost my Petie 7 years earlier. So I guess I'll just trust that when the time comes, I'll know.

Hopefully, it will not be something I have to face for a long, long time.
 

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I, too, hope you don't have to think about it for a VERY long time. You are truly an angel. Lady is one lucky girl.
Susan
 

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Just to try to clarify this a little ~~

Being USDA licensed has nothing to do with the number of dogs anyone owns or has (intact or not).

However, one MUST be licensed if they broker .... or breed to sell to petstores, etc. for re-sale AND make over a certain amount of money (annually) doing this.....can't recall the dollar amount but it is not very high (it's something like $500. per yr). Anyone who strictly sells privately is NOT required to be USDA licensed (again, regardless of the number of dogs they own).
IF only the number of intact dogs was the requirement for being USDA, then about ALL breeders would be on the list.

Again, my memory is not what it used to be.....but I do believe those are the basic requirements of being USDA.
<div align="right">index.php?act=findpost&pid=31320
[/QUOTE]

Actually, The Animal Welfare Act requires that anyone with 4 or more intact bitches must be licensed as a breeder with the USDA. I think you may be confusing the licensing requirements for brokers.

[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I must respectfully disagree as I just did a quick check and this is what I found:

Who must be/required to be USDA licensed--

a) pet wholesalers -- people who import, buy, sell, or trade

pet breeder -- who breeds for wholesale trade, i.e., sells to brokers, pet stores, research labs, etc.

c) hobby breeder -- who sells DIRECTLY to petstores -- grosses $500. or more per year and has a minimum of three breeding females.

It goes w/o saying that brokers must be licensed as they are involved in wholesale.

As I said before, if it were true that it applied to ALL breeders who has over 4 intact females, then the show breeders would also be required to be USDA licensed and as you know....they are NOT. And it is all over the internet to not buy from a breeder who is USDA licensed. A USDA license is only required if the breeder is involved in wholesale --not if they sell privately (to private individuals).
 

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Gottcha! I was confused by your first post, but yes, the Animal Welfare Act only applies to wholesale breeders (puppy mills).

If anyone cares to, you can go to the USDA website and read the actual law regarding who is subject to the licensing requirements of the Animal Welfare Act.

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ac/cfr/9cfr2.html

In a nutshell, the following are exempt:

1. Pet stores
2. Less than $500 annual income from sales
3. 3 or fewer breeding females
4. Sells fewer than 25 dogs or cats per year
5. A person who transports for breeding
6. A person who buys, sells, transports for food/fiber
7. A person who breeds and sells directly to another person for thir own personal use.
 

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I got Pico from a family member who bred her pet bitch so she could have another for herself and maybe another one or two for family member. Then she spayed her bitch. But, like you, I was ignorant of the damage that can be done in careless breeding until I got Pico and began research on the breed. That's when I learned some horrific things. (by the way, I did not get Pico directly from her but from one of the family members who got him as a puppy and found they really didn't have the time for a puppy)

Go to Prisoners of Greed and after visiting that website you will be doing the animals a favor by forwarding the url to that site and to Spoiled Maltese site to all on your email list. Ask them to visit the Prisoners site as a favor to you and to then forward it on to their email list.
 
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