Maltese Dogs Forum : Spoiled Maltese Forums banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,555 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
As some of you know I have a one year old malt who has been on Orijen and Acana Pacifica throughout the year. Since due to her bladder infection I have been hearing from the vet, general people and holistic pet food stores that these foods are what cuased her bladder infection due to the Protein content. i had started her on Merrick canned food bu she was vomitting within hours of eating it so I went right back to Acana Pacifica topped with coco therapy coconut chips. Healthy right ? Can the protein content cause problems in small dogs? Suggestions/comments please and thank you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,659 Posts
There is an ongoing debate about how much protein content is appropriate for a toy breed dog.

I do have one question, though. Has your Maltese ever had a bile acids test? Some of the symptoms you've described in the past like vomitng after eating, crystals in urine, etc. could suggest liver disease. If that is the case, high protein can cause problems.

Dr. Center recommends that all Maltese get a bile acids test once they reach 5 or 6 months since Maltese is one of the breeds highly effected by liver disease.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,288 Posts
I believe protein content should be based on an individual dog, not by breed. Some dogs do great on high protein, others do not. You should work towards a diet that meets you dog's individual needs and medical conditions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,246 Posts
Grain-free is usually higher in protein. If you are worried about protein, add some veggies to the kibble.

IMO, it's better to feed a dog grain-free food, even if the protein is higher because there are ways you can lower the protein when you feed.

Grains are not good for dogs. I'd personally rather risk high protein than high grains.

Jackie is right. All dogs are individuals and you have to find out what is right for your dog.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,543 Posts
I don't know the health history of your dog. But after hearing what the Nutritional Biochemist said about food and dogs I would rather feed high protein than high grain. Basically he said that the kibble you buy at the grocery stores destroys the lining of the stomach. You should not feed grains or cereals to your dogs. And Jackie is right. It depends on the individual dog not the breed. Infections mostly happen when your immune system is low.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,288 Posts
Not wanting to feed grains does not mean carbs are not good. Dogs are omnivores and most do fine to have carbs, fruits, and veggies in their diet. Dogs are not carnivores and cannot survive on meat alone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,246 Posts
Not wanting to feed grains does not mean carbs are not good. Dogs are omnivores and most do fine to have carbs, fruits, and veggies in their diet. Dogs are not carnivores and cannot survive on meat alone.
Oh, I thought that recent studies now label them as opportunistic carnivores?

I agree that carbs in the form of fruits and veggies are great for dogs. (And people.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
389 Posts
Preston gets Evo small bites, which is also high in protein. I give him pieces of apples and bananas for treats, which he loves.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,077 Posts
The information I understood from Dr. Beckers Seminar last summer was that high protein is not bad. It's high protein in kibble form that causes problems. Dogs need a lot of water to process the kibble and if they are not getting a lot of water it can put stress on the kidneys. Every dog is different though and as someone said earlier it's an ongoing debate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,555 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I Ithink I might be switching to Innova small bites or California Natural.Ii hope these are good choices.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,543 Posts
Suzan what do you think about Nature's Variety and Bravo ? The biochemist was mentioning those two in passing as an example. Personally he was more for home cooking and raw.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,916 Posts
A lot of the good quality premium foods now are using sweet potatoes as the carb. What do you think about that?

Personally I would never feed only dry kibble, no matter how good it is. Dogs where not intended to live on dry food. At least half of the food I feed is canned or otherwise wet, and I also add other fruits and veggies--sparingly because Shoni doesn't digest them well. Carrots, even cooked, are one thing he can't eat. Yes, dogs are individuals.:thumbsup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,246 Posts
Suzan what do you think about Nature's Variety and Bravo ? The biochemist was mentioning those two in passing as an example. Personally he was more for home cooking and raw.
This is just my opinion, but if I absolutely had to feed kibble to Nikki, I'd only feed her Acana or Orijen. Although other dry foods might be complete and balanced, Acana and Orijen seem to be above the others regarding the actual quality of their food, and the better sources of their ingredients, which is important in the long run for overall good health. You don't want to just feed your dog a balanced food to keep it alive, you want it to thrive. If the ingredients are excellent quality and come from a good source, your dog has a better chance to thrive. But still, kibble is processed food, no different than processed food for humans, sort of like cereal in a box. Living things like humans and dogs weren't meant to eat that 2X a day for all our lives.

I'm just beginning to explore raw foods. So far, I've only tried Paw Naturaw organic raw bison medallions, and it was very good quality. It's so good in fact, I think I wouldn't mind eating it myself. (But I'd cook it a little first, lol.)

I am going to stick with home cooking and rotate in some Paw Naturaw bison. I hope to have Nkki on 1/2 raw bison, and 1/2 home cooked food, eventually.

The only way to really know what your dog is getting is to home cook from scratch. or use a pre-mix like Dr. Harvey's and add in your own proteins, or feed a good a quality raw food like Paw Naturaw, (because with raw, it is really hard to disguise the quality of the food.)

Hope this helps.

Here's a link to Dr. Becker's book on how to home cook, or prepare a raw recipe. It's a good book, and it's not difficult to follow.

Natural Pet Productions

Hope that answers your question.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,246 Posts
Sweet potato is a good carb, but like anything else, your dog may or may not do well on it.

The key is variety, and that is why home cooking is so good. You can mix it up and change it out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,246 Posts
The information I understood from Dr. Beckers Seminar last summer was that high protein is not bad. It's high protein in kibble form that causes problems. Dogs need a lot of water to process the kibble and if they are not getting a lot of water it can put stress on the kidneys. Every dog is different though and as someone said earlier it's an ongoing debate.
Good info, and very true. You must get your dog to drink water. Nikki seems to want to drink out of MY water bottle, so I pour a little of MY water into a little saucer and she will lap it up!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,288 Posts
Oh, I thought that recent studies now label them as opportunistic carnivores?

I agree that carbs in the form of fruits and veggies are great for dogs. (And people.)
You'd have to provide a study.

The most recent studies on wild dogs near human settlements was showing their diet to have a large carbohydrate component since they are more likely to scavange human scraps than hunt. To me, this emphasizes that every dog and every dog population is different.

The average house dog does not burn large amounts of fat an energy compared to a wild dog who must actively scavange and hunt for food. We do see negative health effects in dogs who eat a diet too high in fat for their individual lifestyle.

Dogs, across various environments, can have a wide array of dietary habits that can be healthy for them.

I would never recommend one diet as appropriate for all dogs. I'm very hesitant to recommend any diet without getting to know the dog. Yes I recommend foods like Acana to some...and something more like California Natural or Prairie to others. I am hesitant to recommend raw to dogs and cats with certain medical conditions where I would be concerned about infections (which would be why I don't allow raw in my home). I am also hesitant to recommend home cooked without knowing the owner - owner compliance with a balanced recipe is key to the health of their pet.

I don't think grain free is "better"...I think the appropriate diet for the individual dog is BEST.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,543 Posts
The key is variety, and that is why home cooking is so good. You can mix it up and change it out.
That's what he said too : variety. I don't feed raw because Alex does not like it. So I do what the lady from Scared Poopless said, just give it a few seconds on both sides in the pan in a little bit of butter or oil. I add steamed rice and veggies. Sometimes I think he does not get enough fat. All the meats he gets are trimmed like I do for us. I know about the raw chicken wings being good for their teeths, we have tried that when he was still young but no luck. My husband even went down to the floor holding the chicken wing because Alex did not want to get his paws dirty. They ended up in the garbage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,246 Posts
You'd have to provide a study.

The most recent studies on wild dogs near human settlements was showing their diet to have a large carbohydrate component since they are more likely to scavange human scraps than hunt. To me, this emphasizes that every dog and every dog population is different.

The average house dog does not burn large amounts of fat an energy compared to a wild dog who must actively scavenge and hunt for food. We do see negative health effects in dogs who eat a diet too high in fat for their individual lifestyle.

Dogs, across various environments, can have a wide array of dietary habits that can be healthy for them.

I would never recommend one diet as appropriate for all dogs. I'm very hesitant to recommend any diet without getting to know the dog. Yes I recommend foods like Acana to some...and something more like California Natural or Prairie to others. I am hesitant to recommend raw to dogs and cats with certain medical conditions where I would be concerned about infections (which would be why I don't allow raw in my home). I am also hesitant to recommend home cooked without knowing the owner - owner compliance with a balanced recipe is key to the health of their pet.

I don't think grain free is "better"...I think the appropriate diet for the individual dog is BEST.

I'd have to go back and find that article about opportunistic carnivores, as I have no idea where I read it. It makes sense that in being around humans, dogs eat more carbs than in the wild, but I wonder if there were any real unbiased studies on which diet is most beneficial for their long-term health and well-being?

I agree that every dog is different and people have to try things for themselves. That's why I try to only offer an opinion of what I'd do, not what anyone else should do.

I think that feeding high fat can be tricky in dogs and humans, too.

If a dog (and a human) is fed good quality fat, and a proper ratio of omega 3 fats to omega 6 fats, then that type of balanced fat intake is usually beneficial. Where we get into trouble is unbalanced ratios and poor quality (rancid) fats.

In many commercial dog foods, the fats are poor quality and rancid. In addition, PUFA's (Polyunsaturated Fatty Acids) like canola oil, sunflower oil, soybean oil, corn oil, (any vegetable oil) are refined fats that in time can cause inflammation, which may causes obesity, diabetes, cancer, etc., if not balanced with a higher ratio of Omega 3 Fatty Acids.

The Monounsaturated fatty acids like olive oil and avocado oil (canola is also monounsaturated - but it is a highly refined product-not good) and the Medium Chain Triglyceride Fatty Acids like unrefined Coconut oil and unrefined Palm oil do not cause inflammation, and are quite beneficial for most, if they are good quality and not rancid or refined with toxins to extract the oil (like Canola is.)

Of course most of us know that the Omega 3 Fatty Acids in Fish Oils are excellent - if they are good quality, not rancid or highly processed. (Grassfed beef and freerange eggs also have a lot of Omega 3 Fatty Acids)

Seed oils are another story. In my recent research, while Flax Oil and Hemp Oil contain beneficial Omega 3 fatty acids, and omega 6 too, new studies are showing that Omega 3's from animal sources are better used by the body than from seed sources. So if you feed your dog Flax oil or Hemp oil, you should take that into consideration. They're okay to use for Omega 3's but animal sources are better if they are tolerated. I don't have that research bookmarked, I'm sorry.

So while I agree that too much fat in grain-free dog food is a serious concern, it's really the type of fat, and the quality of the fat, which is of utmost importance when we choose a food, because bad fats = obesity and disease, while good fats = good health.

That's why I believe that the quality of the food and the food source is what you should look for first, then search for the right nutritional breakdown, etc.

Everyone needs to make their own decisions. I am not recommending that you buy Acana, or any other food, I can just tell you what I would do if Nikki ate kibble, and what products I have used, and how they worked for Nikki.

As far as home cooking, if you think that you will be consistent and diligent with it, then you might want to try it under guidance from a professional, whether that guidance is in person, on the phone, or from a recipe from a qualified DVM's book.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,555 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
THANK YOU ALL FOR SUCH GREAT INFORMATION THAT YOU'VE ALL PROVIDED. ITS ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO READ ALL THE DIFFERENT OPINIONS AND EXPERIENCES.
THANKS AGAIN:ThankYou:
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top