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In today's WSJ there was an article about cancer treatment for dogs being used to test human cancer treatments. These are dogs whose cancer is such that it is inoperable or untreatable by existing methods. The dog in the article had a tumor that they were able to shrink enough to perform the surgery to remove and he is fine now except for a runny nose!

But what I found most interesting in the article is that Purdue University's Veterinary School has found (no surprise, really) a link between cancer in animals and lawn chemicals.

So, while I am no expert on organic gardening I will continue to share what I know and do in that regard. In fact, I just found a product called Neem Spray for flea prevention that you can spray weekly on dogs and cats. It washes off when you bathe them so it must be reapplied. I don't know much about it yet but I know my organic gardening guru here in San Antonio talks about Neem Oil spray for tree and leaf pests.

I just wonder how oily it really is and what it makes the coat look like.......if they will refund my money if I'm not satisfied I may try it when Pico's Advantage runs out.
 

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Originally posted by Pico's Parent@Jul 7 2005, 01:34 PM
In today's WSJ there was an article about cancer treatment for dogs being used to test human cancer treatments.  These are dogs whose cancer is such that it is inoperable or untreatable by existing methods.  The dog in the article had a tumor that they were able to shrink enough to perform the surgery to remove and he is fine now except for a runny nose!

But what I found most interesting in the article is that Purdue University's Veterinary School has found (no surprise, really) a link between cancer in animals and lawn chemicals.

So, while I am no expert on organic gardening I will continue to share what I know and do in that regard.  In fact, I just found a product called Neem Spray for flea prevention that you can spray weekly on dogs and cats.  It washes off when you bathe them so it must be reapplied.  I don't know much about it yet but I know my organic gardening guru here in San Antonio talks about Neem Oil spray for tree and leaf pests.

I just wonder how oily it really is and what it makes the coat look like.......if they will refund my money if I'm not satisfied I may try it when Pico's Advantage runs out.
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Thanks so much for that info. Did it mention what type of lawn chemicals.. such as weed killer, lime, etc. ? I'd love to have any info you have on this. It looks like I need to call my lawn company and tell them no chems in the back then!!
 

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Maybe Terry will jump in here, but I know she has communicated with Purdue about Missy's bladder cancer. They seem to be doing a lot of cancer research there.

From everything I have read, cancer is on the rise in dogs just as it is in humans and environmental poisons appear to be the culprit. As you say, pesticides especially can be dangerous. I believe that's what they suspect caused Missy's cancer, her treatment for mange.

That's one of the main reasons I have only used Frontline spray on Lady for 4 years. I can control the dosage. I use much, much less that what it calls for by weight and don't spray it on her directly. I squirt maybe 3 or 4 squirts on a cosmetic puff, then rub it mainly on her haunches, the part fleas like best in dogs. (It's the neck/head area in cats so I do the reverse on Sarah & Lily)) I do one swipe down her back, period. This lasts for 3 months and she is bathed weekly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Pico's breeder uses only Frontline spray on Pico's mom and siblings (she kept the other two of her bitch's only litter) I have started researching Neem spray as an alternative to Advantage. As it is I only use the Advantage when I actually see a flea and that is maybe every 2-3 months since I put the Nematodes out and it has been so hot and dry here, too.

I like the idea of the Frontline spray since I don't know if the Neem spray is going to be oily or what.

There was no other info on the cancer/pesticide study so I do hope we get a response from Terry.

We use no chemicals on our lawn. My husband uses a mulching mower and I use Medina Soil Activator & Beneficial Nematodes and that's it except for an acidifier on the ground under the Magnolia, since we have very alkaline soil. We do have some weeds but I can live with them because the lawn really looks nice, we have fireflies and ladybugs and a 10th generation of a Cardinal family, Bluejay family and assorted doves and sparrows hanging out. Plus and most importantly, I dont have to worry about Pico, who is closer to the ground than we are as well as in thehouse where we track the outside in.

I am picking up a Composter tomorrow.....the city is selling $80 composters for $20 and I am so excited! I've been composting piles of leaves for several years very haphazardly. Just wetting them and letting them decompose so having a real composter for kitchen wastes is a real step up.

I sure hope your concern is shared by others on SM and we can get unneccessary chemicals out of our living areas. Once you begin it is amazing how, over time, you can eliminate so many environmental hazards from your life by making little accommodations here and there. Do you REALLY need spray cans? Or will a pump sprayer do just fine? Start using rechargable batteries and you will take a ton of battery metals and chemicals out of the landfills. I don't mean to get on a soapbox here but so many "convenience" items are designed just to get $$$ out of your pocket and in the long run cost even more in other ways.

OK. I'll step down now. Thanks for responding, Lady's Mom & K&C's Mom
 

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I was thinking of getting one of those steamers to use for indoor cleaning instead of using chemicals but wasn't sure how good they are.

This is the one I was thinking of getting: Shark Portable Steamer Target & Bed, Bath & Beyond have it for $99.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I hear a lot of good things about those steam cleaners but don't really know anyone who actually has or uses one!

Check Consumer's Union Reports is my suggestion, before you buy. I have a shark vacuum and it is a powerful little demon! Inconvenient to empty and clean so I only use it for upholstery and my car. That's why I'd check out other brands before I'd buy the Shark.
 

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Maybe its true about chemicals cause cancer in dogs... our beagle got a tumor in his nose and my mom always used chemicals on our kitchen floor to clean it... (thats the one place he always was) so i guess it isnt surprising if thats how he got it?...

Pico's mom... the article talked about a tumor in the nose?
 

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Hi..
Sorry just coming in on this.. caught my eye immediately due to Missy's situation.

Yes Missy's particular cancer, transitional cell carcinoma or TCC is linked to pesticides, herbicides, and insecticides. It was upon my early research at her dx one of the less common of the canine cancers making up about 1-2% of these canine cancers.
Interestingly, in later researching, there was stated that the 1-2% has risen by 200%!!!! in the last 10 years... Some research is being done as to the "why the increase".. what is new/different approach".. and one suspicion is the topical preventives we use for our pets for fleas and ticks... and possible the heartworm prevenatives. basically these are "pesticides".
I had read the very early documentated cases were practically all mid-west .. ( agriculture region)or farm areas of other parts of the country.... then little by little the cases were spreading/increasing to the more urban and suburban areas.. and that is sort of the basis for the very early research leading to the confirmation of the pesticides as the culprit.
I think it will be a long long time before they can narrow the factors to get a conclusive answer... It may be the use of these in a dog with another particular problem.. say like Missy with diabetes.. compromised immune system.. gave the cancer an "opening" to take off.
I have stopped the topicals and only use natural products I get from health food store .. mainly for ticks but seems to ward off the mosquitos and well fleas have never been a problem to Missy so hard to tell. I and vet did feel she should have the heartgard ( one of those weigh the risk decisions)
There are more research clinics now investigating the use of Piroxicam (NSAID) for her type cancer... as well as others to see iof they work the same way as piroxicam. there , to my knowledge , has not been a difinitive answer to the "why" it works just that it does. ( It's anti-tumor properties came upon by accident. )Piroxicam, being an anti-inflamatory was orininally developed as a "safer" NSAID drug for animals..than a human counterpart.. mainly for use for Arthritis. Though it still has its side affect issues... but apparently not quite as bad as human forms.
the latest I have found is they think Piroxicam "fights" cancer ( TCC anyway.. that's the only cancer I have focused for its use.. may be others as well). The tumor "thrives" y creating its own blood supply.. this new and 'select" blood supply is the tumors 'life-line" so to speak. NSAID shuts off lifeline.. tumor is slowed and in some cases actually shrinks.
Now the fly in the ointment is it doesn't always happen. It also can take a few months before it works to any significant. maybe ... due to the fact this is a tumor that is usually NOT! caught very early.. and in fact usually has not only grown significantly but often already spread. It may be with these dogs in the research "statistics".. where the Piroxicam didn't work.. might just be it was too large to kill off.. the blood supply already well established. the tumor is usually in the trigone area ( bladder openings). I think in cases caught late the tumor just shuts off the water works.. and the dog stops being able to pee.. so they have to be PTS. The trigone area is not a great area to surgically remove tumor and safty margins which HAVE to be done to really make the operation worthwhile. Luckily Missy's tumor was at the Apex of the bladder ( away from openings) which allowed a section of her bladder to be removed with some margins. Missy's was also detected early.. had not yet penetrated the bladder wall.
I cannot stress loudly enough.. TCC is nasty, sneaky, and aggressive.. it is sneaky because it mimics a "normal" UTI and/or stones.
Infection often accompanies TCC.. that too makes it "sneaky.. the antibiotic is given.. infection clears.. everyone thinks all is well.. meanwhile the "beast' continues to grow in the background! and by the time it manifests symptoms of real trouble.. it is too late!
Sonogram at the moment has to be done ..and early ...as the primary means of detecting early .
Just as added info. the "average" prognosis.. 90-130 days!!! .. a "good" 280 days. a "few made it a year within that a few a year plus.
Missy will be 1 year 9 months in a bit over a wek from now and the cancer still is not causing her distress.
Actually of all her litany of problems.. it is her back which is our concern.
Terry and Missy
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Originally posted by tiffany@Jul 8 2005, 12:03 PM
Can I ask where to buy the beneficial nematodes. Does it come from a yard and garden place or is it something I have to order?
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You can order on line but most garden shops carry them. You'll find them refrigerated, usually in a small glass fronted box type fridge. You can buy ladybugs, too.

Two cautions: Beneficial nematodes can drown so use the solution within hours of releasing them into the water.

Water the nematodes in to the ground but don't overwater....you just want to wash them off the greenery so they get into the soil.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Originally posted by Kodie@Jul 8 2005, 12:48 PM
Maybe its true about chemicals cause cancer in dogs... our beagle got a tumor in his nose and my mom always used chemicals on our kitchen floor to clean it... (thats the one place he always was) so i guess it isnt surprising if thats how he got it?...
 
Pico's mom... the article talked about a tumor in the nose?
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Yes. I am sorry now I didn't keep the article in order to give you more information but you might be able to pull it up on the WSJ web site or check your local library for back copies and look for the July 7 edition.
 

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Originally posted by IamMomtoMissy@Jul 9 2005, 08:20 PM
Hi..
Sorry just coming in on this.. caught my eye immediately due to Missy's situation.

Yes Missy's particular cancer, transitional cell carcinoma or TCC  is linked to pesticides, herbicides, and insecticides. It was upon my early research at her dx one of the less common of the canine cancers making up about 1-2% of these canine cancers.
Interestingly, in later researching, there was stated that the 1-2% has risen by 200%!!!! in the last 10 years... Some research is being done as to the "why the increase".. what is new/different approach".. and one suspicion is the topical preventives we use for our pets for fleas and ticks... and possible the heartworm prevenatives. basically these are "pesticides".
I had read the very early documentated cases were practically all mid-west .. ( agriculture region)or farm areas of other parts of the country.... then little by little the cases were spreading/increasing to the more urban and suburban areas.. and that is sort of the basis for the very early research leading to the confirmation of the pesticides as the culprit.
I think it will be a long long time before they can narrow the factors to get a conclusive answer... It may be the use of these in a dog with another particular problem.. say like Missy with diabetes.. compromised immune system.. gave the cancer an "opening" to take off.
I have stopped the topicals and only use natural products I get from health food store .. mainly for ticks but seems to ward off the mosquitos and well fleas have never been a problem to Missy so hard to  tell. I and vet did feel she should have the heartgard ( one of those weigh the risk decisions)
There are more research clinics now investigating the use of Piroxicam (NSAID) for her type cancer... as well as others to see iof they work the same way as piroxicam. there , to my knowledge , has not been a difinitive answer to the "why" it works just that it does. ( It's anti-tumor properties came upon by accident. )Piroxicam, being an anti-inflamatory was orininally developed as a "safer" NSAID drug for animals..than a human counterpart.. mainly for use for Arthritis. Though it still has its side affect issues... but apparently not quite as bad as human forms.
the latest I have found is they think Piroxicam "fights" cancer ( TCC anyway.. that's the only cancer I have focused for its use.. may be others as well). The tumor "thrives" y creating its own blood supply.. this new and 'select" blood supply is the tumors 'life-line" so to speak. NSAID shuts off lifeline.. tumor is slowed and in some cases actually shrinks.
Now the fly in the ointment is it doesn't always happen. It also can take a few months before it works to any significant. maybe ... due to the fact this is a tumor that is usually NOT! caught very early.. and in fact usually has not only grown significantly but often already spread. It may be with these dogs in the research "statistics".. where the Piroxicam didn't work.. might just be it was too large to kill off.. the blood supply already well established. the tumor is usually in the trigone area ( bladder openings). I think in cases caught late the tumor just shuts off the water works.. and the dog stops being able to pee.. so they have to be PTS. The trigone area is not a great area to surgically remove tumor and safty margins which HAVE to be done to really make the operation worthwhile.  Luckily Missy's tumor was at the Apex of the bladder ( away from openings) which allowed a section of her bladder to be removed with some margins. Missy's was also detected early.. had not yet penetrated the bladder wall.
I cannot stress loudly enough.. TCC is nasty, sneaky, and aggressive.. it is sneaky because it mimics a "normal" UTI and/or stones.
Infection often accompanies TCC.. that too makes it "sneaky.. the antibiotic is given.. infection clears.. everyone thinks all is well.. meanwhile the "beast' continues to grow in the background! and by the time it manifests symptoms of real trouble.. it is too late!
Sonogram at the moment has to be done ..and early ...as the primary means of detecting early .
Just as added info. the "average" prognosis.. 90-130 days!!! .. a "good" 280 days. a "few made it a year within that a few a year plus.
Missy will be 1 year 9 months in a bit over a wek from now and the cancer still is not causing her distress.
Actually of all her litany of problems.. it is her back which is our concern.
Terry and Missy
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I was glad to hear you say that the 'flea repellents' we use on our babies are basically 'pesticides'. I was told that a long time ago.
We only use 'advantage' on Sassi from March to September, but I'm sure even that short of time can cause her to become ill.
I have notice that she has developed quite a few 'black spots' on her back in the past couple of years...and I don't think they are 'age spots' !
I honestly think there is an association with cancer in dogs and pesticides, and all the other 'cides.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Well, I'm not convinced about the flea remedy. Used to be we used flea collars in conjunction with flea powders and sprays on bedding, carpet, etc. or bombarded the house with insecticide "bombs". Then we sprayed outdoors with flea killing chemicals. So how are the new once a month products, which are more effective in my experience, more dangerous than the former products? I just don't know the answer but I have to question the difference.

I still prefer any natural remedy that works over man-made chemical pesticides.
 

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Originally posted by Pico's Parent@Jul 20 2005, 10:26 AM
Well, I'm not convinced about the flea remedy.  Used to be we used flea collars in conjunction with flea powders and sprays on bedding, carpet, etc.  or bombarded the house with insecticide "bombs".  Then we sprayed outdoors with flea killing chemicals.  So how are the new once a month products, which are more effective in my experience, more dangerous than the former products?  I just don't know the answer but I have to question the difference.

I still prefer any natural remedy that works over man-made chemical pesticides.
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Thank you for the information. It 's great.

Here is mississauga , Ontario they no longer use chemicals for killing the weeds on our grass it was band last year. They are only allowed to use it for Business and gulf courses. In our back yard I do companion planting to get rid of certain bugs and use smashed shells to get rid of snails and slug in the garden... I smash them with a hammer and then mix them in the soil then cover over with mulch. I have not seen another snail in the yard for two years.
, for Earwigs I use organic power soil in home depo..... it only works so long as it does not rain....
I plant garlic near my roses for aphid. This year I harvest the garlic and my roses are blooming as well. So next year I will plant more.
And to keep the puppies out of my little garden there is a smelling plant called dog be gone... and it smells like skunk. Chester never goes on that side of the garden. Also you can use Hyshop.. it pretty but smells the same.

I believe natural is the best way to go if you can.

Here is a link for companion planting
companion planting
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Smashed shells? Seashells? Oyster shells? What? I don't have a slug problem but my friend does because she has a gardener who waters regularly while my plants have to call me on my cell phone!


She would love a natural remedy like that. Now I do have earwigs so tell me about the "power soil".....is it a top dressing or do you use it as potting soil?

I love hearing about natural remedies that really work!
 
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