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Hi Everyone,

I’m having two main problems with my little girl (who is 12 weeks old today
):

1. Housebreaking – I thought we were going okay with this. We seem to have a week or so where everything is “hunky-dory” and then all of a sudden we go backwards… does anyone else have this problem? I tried cleaning the floors with vinegar and water to take out the smell and now… well now, Abby REALLY thinks she can pee where she likes. Sometimes I’ll see her and she’ll be running toward me or something and then just crouch and pee and keep coming. She doesn’t even bother smelling around anymore! And she does it while she’s looking straight at me. Last night we were doing some training on come, sit etc and she sat down beside me, looked up at me and peed on the floor right by my feet! Why is she doing this?? Can anyone help?

At the moment I take her to the pee (if I don’t catch her) and put her nose near it, smack her and tell her “NO. Bad girl” and then put her in her crate for 10-15 minutes. If I catch her, I do the same thing. I know she doesn’t like when I do this because when she comes out of the crate, she sulks. It’s hard because she is at home most of the time while I am at work (except maybe once or twice a week when I bring her in to the office after lunch). I can’t watch her then, so she is in her playpen. I just find that when I am at home during the week in the afternoons, I sort of race around to get things done before it gets dark. I like to let her have a run around then, but I can’t seem to trust her. I take her out for a “potty” run probably every 60-90 minutes while I am at home… ??

I don’t want to have to keep her in her pen 24/7. I feel mean, but I’m nearing wits end! Please help! I’d appreciate any further suggestions… maybe I should construct some sort of timetable (for in pen, out of pen, on lead etc)??

2. My next problem is with the “Down” command. Abby knows what this is, but I’ll be darned if she’ll do it when I tell her!

She just looks at me as if to say, “I know what you’re saying but I’m not doing it”. I entice her with treats etc and I have now started to introduce it to her before her meals (so now I say “Come. Sit. Down. Wait” before giving her dinner and then “Okay” to eat it). But here’s the thing. I tell her “Down” and she sits there and looks at me – she takes 30 seconds to a minute (or not at all) to respond to it.

She does it so begrudgingly – sometimes with a growl even. I just have to stand there and look at her. I repeat it if she doesn’t respond and put her into down position and then praise her. Is there anything else I can do? I really don’t want her to think that she can do something as she pleases (ie in her own time) – she should be responding straight away to my commands. When I am training her, if she doesn’t respond straight away but does it, I still tell her “Good Down” or whatever it is she has done but I don’t give her the treat until she responds straight away. Am I doing the right thing??
 

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Originally posted by Sunshine@Oct 18 2004, 05:10 PM
Hi Everyone,

I’m having two main problems with my little girl (who is 12 weeks old today 
):

1. Housebreaking – I thought we were going okay with this. We seem to have a week or so where everything is “hunky-dory” and then all of a sudden we go backwards… does anyone else have this problem? I tried cleaning the floors with vinegar and water to take out the smell and now… well now, Abby REALLY thinks she can pee where she likes. Sometimes I’ll see her and she’ll be running toward me or something and then just crouch and pee and keep coming. She doesn’t even bother smelling around anymore! And she does it while she’s looking straight at me. Last night we were doing some training on come, sit etc and she sat down beside me, looked up at me and peed on the floor right by my feet! Why is she doing this?? Can anyone help?

At the moment I take her to the pee (if I don’t catch her) and put her nose near it, smack her and tell her “NO. Bad girl” and then put her in her crate for 10-15 minutes. If I catch her, I do the same thing. I know she doesn’t like when I do this because when she comes out of the crate, she sulks. It’s hard because she is at home most of the time while I am at work (except maybe once or twice a week when I bring her in to the office after lunch). I can’t watch her then, so she is in her playpen. I just find that when I am at home during the week in the afternoons, I sort of race around to get things done before it gets dark. I like to let her have a run around then, but I can’t seem to trust her. I take her out for a “potty” run probably every 60-90 minutes while I am at home… ??

I don’t want to have to keep her in her pen 24/7. I feel mean, but I’m nearing wits end! Please help! I’d appreciate any further suggestions… maybe I should construct some sort of timetable (for in pen, out of pen, on lead etc)??

2. My next problem is with the “Down” command. Abby knows what this is, but I’ll be darned if she’ll do it when I tell her!

She just looks at me as if to say, “I know what you’re saying but I’m not doing it”. I entice her with treats etc and I have now started to introduce it to her before her meals (so now I say “Come. Sit. Down. Wait” before giving her dinner and then “Okay” to eat it). But here’s the thing. I tell her “Down” and she sits there and looks at me – she takes 30 seconds to a minute (or not at all) to respond to it.

She does it so begrudgingly – sometimes with a growl even. I just have to stand there and look at her. I repeat it if she doesn’t respond and put her into down position and then praise her. Is there anything else I can do? I really don’t want her to think that she can do something as she pleases (ie in her own time) – she should be responding straight away to my commands.  When I am training her, if she doesn’t respond straight away but does it, I still tell her “Good Down” or whatever it is she has done but I don’t give her the treat until she responds straight away. Am I doing the right thing??

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helloo~

awwww Sunshine is still a baby~
shes only 12weeks old..my baby didnt even know sit or down when she was that young..

im not trying to offend you or anythng but you dont need to put her nose near her pee and "smack" her..even if you just catch her right at the moment and startle her by clapping ur hands loud, she will understand..

and putting in her crate isnt a good idea either..her crate is her "home" not a punishment place so u could give her a time out somewhere else like maybe the bathroom? some other place that she doensnt associate it with "home" also i only give my baby a time out for no longer than 10 seconds..dogs have short attention spans so after a couple of seconds they forget what they did and dont have any idea why they are punished..they just get frustrated and sad that they are locked up...shes still a baby


my jongee didnt even know how to do the down when she was 12weeks old..i only taught her to sit then....then she got official training when she was about 5 months old..i dont knwo..sunshine is such a sweet baby
im not sure about the look straight in ur eyes and peeing tho..maybe its submissive urination? and since shes still a baby she doesnt have much control of her bladder..my jongee knew where to pee but since the house seemed so big to her she had no time to run to her pad so she had lots of accidents..maybe if u restrict sunshine in a playpen or dont let her have the run of the house yet she might have less accidents coz the area is smaller..

shes still a baby~ :lol:
 

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Oh gosh, I agree with Mee 100%.

The books on this subject I have read say if a dog goes where it is not supposed to that it is the owner's fault. And I truly believe this. And if mine went where they shouldn't I would just say to myself that I was the one who was bad. I read your other posts and see that due to circumstances, you had to get her at 6-1/2 weeks. That could be the reason for some of the difficulty.

However, your baby may indeed be doing some submissive urination.... in which case you have a different situation on your hands.

I have never read a book on dog training that advocates ever hitting them. ... that just breaks my heart to imagine that.... sorry... I don't mean to be judgemental, as you just didn't know what to do.....I was in the same situation with my first Maltese many years ago. Please get a book or two on the subject or ask a professional trainer to help you with the potty training, the possible submissive urination, and the obedience training ... Best of luck!!
 

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I sorta did the same thing Sunshine did. First, I don't think 10 seconds of punishment is long enough. Even if they're super sensitive, I think 10 seconds is too easy for them. I think 10 mins is fine in the crate. However, I dont throw them in there...they just know that they're in trouble and they run in there. I guess they still feel it's there safe haven even if I make them. And as far as putting their nose up in there waste, I don't let them touch it. I want it clear that pottying where they shouldnt is wrong and I make them look in my eyes and say NO/BAD. And as far as hitting them. I don't like. Just pat them to shock them. But don't hurt them. I think we all have different approaches.

Mee and Kallie/Catcher's mom--It is true...it's the owner's fault for not watching close ENOUGH.
But, in my opinion, I think that they still should LEARN that they're NOT suppose to do it.

And yeah, 12 weeks! SO YOUNG! Do give them a correction, but expect that at that age, it could likely happen. I mean, how long does it take a human baby to control there bladder? Avg 2 yrs! So you're gonna have to watch them totally, or put them in their play pen/crate.

I know you feel bad about putting them in the crate when you cant watch them, but look at my situation. I'm RETRAINING them to go from pottying inside to pottying outside. So I had to start all over and they're almost 10 mos. If you can't train them RIGHT, then you're going to be feeling bad/quilty even after 10 mos. So get it right the first time.


Are you training her to go inside or outside? If outside, you have to take them outside pretty frequently. I think every 2 hrs. Definitely, praise them like crazy when they go in the right place.

I can't help you with the command issue. LOL. I'm hoping to take my babies to a dog trainer soon to fix this issue.

I hope you guys don't kill me for stating my opinions.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
:eek: Oh no! I didn't mean smack as in hurt my baby! I mean like a tap on the bottom to give her a little fright! I would never hurt my baby girl!!! :eek:

And I put her nose down to it, but I don't put her nose in it - I agree that it is cruel to "rub" their noses in their waste!

I do think the timeout has been effective in all areas though - and the length of time I guess is debatable

Thank you for your opinions. I appreciate them. Abby is in a playpen most of the time when I am not watching her and during the day when/if I am out....

And with "down" it isn't the command she doesn't know. She knows what "down" is and if I wait long enough and just look at her, she will do it - she doesn't want to! That's the problem.

I don't expect a miracle with either of these - I just want to know if I'm doing the right thing so that it all doesn't become a permanent problem. If it's my fault that these things are happening, I want to know so I can change that!
 

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hehe, Not only is it cruel to rub their nose in their waste, but it's gross to kiss them after that! EWWWWIEEEEE.
 

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hey!! i totally know what you're feeling. my advice:

problem #1---even a 'tap' or saying "no bad dog".....isnt good. when she has an accident, its your fault <_< it sucks...but its true. and if you "punish" or "correct" abby---then eventually she'll start hiding to go potty. and she probably is giving a signal, you really really have to look for it though.

**when you see an 'accident', just ignore it. if you catch her in the act, pick her up and take her outside or in her designated potty place. take her outside every hour to 2 hours and 30 minutes after she eats. she'll get the hang of it**


problem #2--just work on stuff for a few minutes. and if you know an older dog that knows all that stuff---perfect. have he/she come over and do commands in front of abby. gruffi learned to sit-stay and down-stay (just for like 2 seconds) by the time he was 7 weeks old (we got him when he was 5 weeks). BUT he learned from sprite and ellie. and it helps a lot to use positive reinforcement at that age.
like lure with treats and give a treat once they do the action. i wouldnt recommend this to anyone with an older dog---but abby is just a baby
lol.


good luck!!
 

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Housebreaking- 12 weeks is really young yet. Lexi is almost 8 months old and we are still housebreaking. Try keeping her on a leash (6foot kind) while in the house. Tie the leash to your belt or wast band. This way you can see if she is getting ready to go. Also take her out every hour when she is awake. If she can't be trusted on her own then put her in a crate/playpen/gated off area when you can't watch her. She is still a baby so you have a few more months before you will be able to trust her.

Timeouts- I give Lexi timeouts in her crate. If she did something bad I might put her in there for 10-15 minutes. Sometimes she just she just has to settle down so I might leave her in there a litttle longer. Example: Last night Lexi was barking at everything. I kept trying to calm her down and be quiet. Nothing was working so I put her in the crate for 30-40 minutes. She was fine afterwards.

Down command- Try luring your dog into the down command without using the command. You shouldn't associate a command with an action until the dog is doing the action 8 out of 10 times. Even then only say the command once and if the dog doesn't do the action lure it into it. When the dog does the action make sure you always give lots of praise. In the beginning give treats also. This will teach the puppy that good things happen when they do the action.
 

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Aww, i agree with everyone else, she is just 12 weeks. I took Caesar a couple months to be totally potty trained, wed think he had it down then there would be an accident. Have u tried some positive reinforcement, that seemed to work best with us. When he went potty where he was supposed to he got a couple cheerios. This really helped Caesar train a lot and now when he goes potty he will come tell us if we didnt see him go so he can get his cheerio.
As for the sit thing, we didnt have him sitting until he was probably 6 months old or so. We gave him cheerios when he sit when we told him to, that also seemed to click for him real well. hopefully the cheerio idea well help and just remember she is only 12 wks old so it will take time, but like I said we found the positive reinforcement really helped with Caesar.
 

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I have never potty trained a dog...so please take this advice for what it's worth....but books we've been reading in anticipation of our new puppy all seem to suggest that 12 weeks is just too young to expect a puppy to have potty success. Most suggest that 16 weeks is about the time dogs are able to "get it" and begin the training process. And also, they suggest that toy breeds are slower to develop because of their small size so don't expect too much too soon. Now I don't think that means that you cannot crate train your dog at 12 weeks, just don't expect that your pup will immediately stay dry. I found a really good book that we've been reading with the kids...House Training for Dummies...and it offers some really great advice. We got it at Barnes and Noble. It is very easy to read...my 2nd grader can read it...and it offers all kinds of wonderful suggestions and solutions to particular problems.

I think that maybe you're expecting too much of your pup at this stage. I know this may come off sounding like a criticism, but why don't you relax a bit around her? If you constantly use negative reinforcement, that's all she'll learn. It's kind of like with kids...you never scold them for having a potty accident. You ignore it and try again later. You praise them, offer rewards if you have to (we kept a bowl of potty candies) and they'll get it. Dogs want to please, even more so than children. I may get slammed on this, but I think there is nothing wrong with trying to "humanize" our dogs by treating them as we would treat our children. Now I'm not suggesting that children should be treated like dogs, I'm suggesting that maybe we should treat our dogs a little more like we treat our kids...I hope that point comes across!

I really have to applaud you on the fact that you recognize the problem and want to find a solution. That's half the battle. I wish you the best of luck, and I apologize in advance if I have said anything out of line.
 

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Originally posted by saltymalty@Oct 19 2004, 10:53 AM
I have never potty trained a dog...so please take this advice for what it's worth....but books we've been reading in anticipation of our new puppy all seem to suggest that 12 weeks is just too young to expect a puppy to have potty success.  Most suggest that 16 weeks is about the time dogs are able to "get it" and begin the training process.  And also, they suggest that toy breeds are slower to develop because of their small size so don't expect too much too soon.  Now I don't think that means that you cannot crate train your dog at 12 weeks, just don't expect that your pup will immediately stay dry.  I found a really good book that we've been reading with the kids...House Training for Dummies...and it offers some really great advice.  We got it at Barnes and Noble.  It is very easy to read...my 2nd grader can read it...and it offers all kinds of wonderful suggestions and solutions to particular problems. 

I think that maybe you're expecting too much of your pup at this stage.  I know this may come off sounding like a criticism, but why don't you relax a bit around her?  If you constantly use negative reinforcement, that's all she'll learn.  It's kind of like with kids...you never scold them for having a potty accident.  You ignore it and try again later.  You praise them, offer rewards if you have to (we kept a bowl of potty candies) and they'll get it.  Dogs want to please, even more so than children.  I may get slammed on this, but I think there is nothing wrong with trying to "humanize" our dogs by treating them as we would treat our children.  Now I'm not suggesting that children should be treated like dogs, I'm suggesting that maybe we should treat our dogs a little more like we treat our kids...I hope that point comes across! 

I really have to applaud you on the fact that you recognize the problem and want to find a solution.  That's half the battle.  I wish you the best of luck, and I apologize in advance if I have said anything out of line.
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Beautifully stated.
 

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Maya is 1 1/2 she is 90% potty trained and I still keep and eye othe both of my girls for going potty signs.

Maya when she was a pup, was just like your baby. she pee every 20 to 30 constantly and right before my eyes. my sololution was, when I was home just take her to go peeppee(that is the pee word)every 20 minutes and specially after eating. On the weekends I tried to be home as mcuh as possible for potty training and when I was at work just pray they remember where the peepee place was
and just keep doign that, as they get older, they will remember where the place for potty is.

It didnt took too much for Daezie to learned where to go. and I think Maya learned form Daezie.

Good luck :D
 

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Thanks everyone for your input.
Greatly appreciated.

I do have to defend myself and say that, although it might seem like I am expecting too much of Abby, it isn't that - I just need to be assured I am heading in the right direction. I fully understand that house-training could take a year or more, but some of her behaviours absolutely baffle me and I need to find out what's happening!!


I've since discovered that if I crouch down, Abby will obey my "down" command.
I think maybe she feels intimidated if I stand up or something - like I'm standing over her.....
hmmm..... anyways, I worked this out at Mum & Dad's. We were visiting. I was sitting on the floor and Abby came over to me. I gave her a little piece of chicken, but told her to sit and down while I was sitting there before I gave it to her and she did it straight away!!!
I never even thought about the fact that I was standing when I asked her to "down". I stand when I call her and when I ask her to "sit" and she's okay, but for some reason... not with "down". I have read that this position is a submissive position - they are conceding that they are not in charge... so maybe that has something to do with it..... I don't know! I'm just happy that we made progress!


As far as potty training... long term battle I know! LOL I have just watched her very very closely and taken your advice. If I catch her in the act, I still tap her (I'll use tap to describe it instead of smack because people think I'm abusing and hurting my baby otherwise :wacko: LOL - can I just say now, that I mean a tap as in one or two fingers on the rump, more or less saying "pay attention") and say "No. No Potty. Bad Girl" and then take her to the right place and say "This is Potty". When I'm home, I've been taking her outside about every half hour, saying "Do you need to go Potty? Let's go Potty. C'mon, Mum will take you Potty" and treats & play when she's been in the right place. She seems to understand the word Potty... it's just actually associating it with where she has to go that causes the problem!!
But yeah, if I can't watch her 100% then I just put her back in her playpen... let's hope it works! Will see how it goes over the next week or so.....
 

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Sunshine I know how your feeling. When Puddles was having so many accidents, I was at my end. I also posted on here the same as you have, hoping with some ideals. I had purchased all the books and nothing was working for us.

I remember one lady on here that really told me a few things. I sat back and read it over and over. She said I needed to get some patience and chill out. I thought I dare her.
She said I was expecting to much and dang she was right. I continued to take him out side and clean up the accidents on the house. I would spray the carpets and say nothing to him (biting my lip). I watched his every move and even prayed about it. Then one day, hubby and I noticed he was going to the door and barking. That he had not had an accident in several days.

Puddles is now 5 months old and its been 2 months since our ordeal. He goes to the door and barks and if were not in the same room, he will come to us and bark several times.

I know its hard, been there done that ...but hang in there!! Please

The rewards are wonderful.


Oh ya, to whom ever that replyed to my email about Puddles months ago ... thanks to you.....we make it. He got it !!
 

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Good luck Sunshine...just wanted you to know I am thinking about you...it will get better and you will be able to relax...

And then, just as soon as you brag on your baby, you will turn around and find a trail of POO! Or step out of the bathroom into a puddle on the carpet

Crazy babies!!!!
Wish I could get inside his head sometimes...
 

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Originally posted by tlunn@Oct 19 2004, 09:19 PM
...just as soon as you brag on your baby, you will turn around and find a trail of POO! Or step out of the bathroom into a puddle on the carpet

Crazy babies!!!!
Wish I could get inside his head sometimes...

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You are so right, it isnt even funny! Well, a little funny teehee.
 

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Originally posted by Sunshine@Oct 19 2004, 08:44 PM
I've since discovered that if I crouch down, Abby will obey my "down" command. 
  I think maybe she feels intimidated if I stand up or something - like I'm standing over her..... 
hmmm..... anyways, I worked this out at Mum & Dad's. We were visiting. I was sitting on the floor and Abby came over to me. I gave her a little piece of chicken, but told her to sit and down while I was sitting there before I gave it to her and she did it straight away!!! 
I never even thought about the fact that I was standing when I asked her to "down". I stand when I call her and when I ask her to "sit" and she's okay, but for some reason... not with "down". I have read that this position is a submissive position - they are conceding that they are not in charge... so maybe that has something to do with it.....  I don't know! I'm just happy that we made progress! 
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You know how you can teach dogs hand signals for different commands? Abby might have associated you being crouched down with the down command. My trainer mentioned that this could happen.
You just need to teach it to her with you standing.
 

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to teach down from far away:

1-put a leash on her

2-tie her to a chair, desk, table, anything sturdy

3- step like right in front of her face

4-say down, have a treat and have your hand do the "down command" and hold the treat near the floor.

5-just keep doing that till she does a down and praise like crazy when she does and give the treat

6-go further and further away, dont bend your knees when you do this, keep them straight

you'll see that she'll start doing the down for a treat and then it will be heard to do "sit" again. (thats what happened to gruffi). so work with both sits and downs.


we had to wait like 5 minutes till sprite laid down. it was because she was tired. lol. but we praised her and now she'll do it from far away.
 

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Originally posted by doctorcathy@Oct 20 2004, 08:51 AM
we had to wait like 5 minutes till sprite laid down.  it was because she was tired.  lol.  but we praised her and now she'll do it from far away. 

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How can Sprite be tired of LAYING DOWN???? HAHAHAHAHAH
 
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12 weeks is just to young to expect her to be potty trained. When I first brought Lacey home she spent a lot of time in her exercise pen. My husband and kids thought I was so mean for putting Lacey in there but she was safe. I put her bed, food, waterbottle, toys and piddle pad in the pen. At first when she would be out of the pen playing with us or just spending time with us I would put her on her piddle pad every 20 minutes. She wasn't allowed back out until she pee or pooped. Most times she had to pee, her little bladder just couldn't hold it anymore then 30 minutes. She learned real fast if she wanted to be with us she had to do her business. She was 14, almost 15 weeks old when she came home to me. If I couldn't watch her like a hawk I put her back in her pen. She had plenty of room to play and sleep. Like I said above my family thought I was so mean, but now they understand why I did it. Lacey knows to go to her piddle pad and do her business. Lacey will be 8 months old this Friday and she is doing really well, but if she does have an accident it is my fault not hers. It is my job as her mom to make sure she goes to her piddle pad and see if she has to do her business. I think sometimes she is just so busy playing she can't get to the piddle pad in time so I now keep a close eye on the clock and her and make sure she gets to it every hour or so. When we aren't at home she goes in there and sleeps. We can even leave the house and she will be by the door to tell us goodbye but when we come back she is in her pen usually sleeping on her bed. My point is if you can't watch her very closely then put her somewhere she is safe and every 20 or 30 minutes take her outside or were ever she is suppose to go. I now it sounds like a lot but it does pay off. I believe it is my job to make sure Lacey is safe and if I cannot watch her I put her in her pen were she cannot get into trouble.
 
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