Just a little over view I work at a Human Resources consulting and outsourcing firm... in my office we are the mediator between a company and a health care provider... It's my best friend from work last day today and I'm really sad
. Well my friend is our managers little "pet" she knows it... we all know it... well, when Laura (my friend) first made the announcement she was leaving it was sort of bittersweet, because she is moving to Vegas to be with her boyfriend who got transferred for work, so we were all really happy for her, but then things started to change. At first I felt as though my manager was trying to make me Laura, she was trying to gossip with me, and act like we were best friends and I was like 'I don't feel comfortable talking about this' blah blah blah... Last week, I had my first performance review and all of my peers had wonderful things to say about me and my manager couldn't find anything negative (which really seemed to piss her off), so she started to attack other things... I mean it got so detailed she was talking about my boobs. So I told her 'Listen, I am really not comfortable with this, I am very self-conscious and this isn't helping,' but the subject was dropped. Well for the rest of the week she kept coming up to me and just putting me down so I emailed our regional manager (her boss). He just happened to be in on Tuesday so I sat down with him and talked to him for over an hour. He definitely was backing me and made me feel much better... until today.
We are really lucky at work, we have our own cafeteria and we get free lunch everyday. Well, there were 5 of us in the lunch room (myself, my friend, my manager, a male worker, and a female coworker) waiting for lunch when my manager yells out 'Natalie look at all of your cleavage' (mind you I was bending down, so it looks a little bigger) my friend snapped at my manager 'excuse me, that is completely uncalled for.' My manager just laughs and says 'well look at her' (at this point I was sweating because I was BRIGHT red), my friend stepped in again, 'That was completely uncalled for, apologize.' So of course my manager, brushed it off and was like 'sorry.' Well, by this point the other two who were not involved in the conversation walked out of the room and I then excused myself to go to the bathroom, just to look at myself and reassure myself I didn't look like a hooker!
About 20 minutes after lunch my manager came up to me and pulled me into a conference room (I was just waiting for this)... she said 'Now Natalie, we both know you are very well endowed (yes, I have big boobs) and I'm sorry for what I said, but you have to start watching what you wear to work.'
I almost lost it. Because she said something totally uncalled for she turned it around on me and said I was not following our dress code.
Let me tell you what I am wearing... I have on gray slacks, a white button up blouse (which is buttoned to the tip) and a black cardigan on over it. There is nothing inappropriate with what I am wearing and I am really really really really really mad. So anyway, I just needed to vent. I've already talked to my managers' manager and my HR rep, so we will see where this goes... I hate don't like this at all, I don't like to ruin things that are going smoothly but really, there is nothing else I can do.
I am just so upset right now yet my fingers are typing so darn fast!
Thank you for listening to me vent. I really appreciate it.
That was SO uncalled for, rude, unprofessional, etc!
And she is a manager?! At least she said it around other people so that you have witnesses. So it is not your word against hers. Since she has said things like that to you a few times would that qualify as harassment?
I just got "the word" from my friend ... my managers' manager has already called everyone who was in the lunchroom, and they are considering this a harassment issue, which in all reality really sucks. I hate making big deals like this... but I can't help but feel so embarrassed and plain old angry for what she said to me in the cafeteria and then how she turned it around on me and said it was my fault.
She has SUCH issues. Lately everyone has seen a side of her that no one has seen before. She just celebrated her '5 years' with this company and I really think she thinks she can do no wrong. She of course left for the day about an hour ago, so she is going to in for quite the surprise when she gets to work tomorrow. I don't think she even sees it coming :excl:
thats really messed up. and you cant trust the boss or the bosses boss, like all these companies just try to make sure that their own butts are save. like this employee called my sister a whore, while she was working at Morgan Stanley Dean Witter(shes a stockbroker) and so my sister told her boss, and he was like "you probably missunderstood him"....eventhough my sister was making way more money than this other guy and she was working there longer and whatever! you know?
so i totally understand what you mean. i hope this stuff gets straightened out. you can easily sue for harrassment though.
What you are experiencing is sexual harassment! Be sure to put your complaints to upper management in writing and keep two copies. Today, have someone take a picture of you (at work) to prove what you were wearing when the rude, uncalled for, comment was made. If at all possible have your written statement signed by a witness. These things can turn ugly and it will be hard to prove that you are not at fault.
I am so sorry you are experiencing this, it really sucks!
Good luck and feel better knowing you are not in the wrong..... she is!
Natalie, you are in the right. Sounds like judi has given you some very good advice.
I'm afraid I would have been tempted to have replied to the manager when she made a big issue about my boobs..."Thank you, but I'm really not interested, I have a BOYFRIEND"...that would have put her in her place...pronto!
What she did was totally uncalled for in the work field. Wonder how she got to be manager with that kind of mouth?
That is just so incredibly uncalled for.. It's amazing how someone can come up with the most idiotic ways to make you feel like crap when they don't like you.. I totally feel your pain here, my manager is a moron who is consistently unprofessional and I can't do anything about it because our company is teeny tiny. I would really suggest taking this to upper management because it's harrasement and you should not have to put up with that at work. They will probably back you up too, so don't be afraid to fight her. Good luck and *hugs*
Yes I am sorry for your embarrasment! I can totally understand and sympathize with you, a similiar thing happened to me on my first real job.
Please listen to judi and do EXACTLY what she says! So many harrassment cases have fallen through the cracks simply because the victim can't prove their case!
I pray for you! That is A BIG DEAL and do NOT feel bad for pursuing the issue. You have already went to people over her and she continues to harrass you. Yes Sexual Harrassment can come from a female to another female.
Please take action, you are probably NOT the only one!
Originally posted by nataliecmu@Sep 30 2004, 01:41 PM Just a little over view I work at a Human Resources consulting and outsourcing firm... in my office we are the mediator between a company and a health care provider... It's my best friend from work last day today and I'm really sad
. Well my friend is our managers little "pet" she knows it... we all know it... well, when Laura (my friend) first made the announcement she was leaving it was sort of bittersweet, because she is moving to Vegas to be with her boyfriend who got transferred for work, so we were all really happy for her, but then things started to change. At first I felt as though my manager was trying to make me Laura, she was trying to gossip with me, and act like we were best friends and I was like 'I don't feel comfortable talking about this' blah blah blah... Last week, I had my first performance review and all of my peers had wonderful things to say about me and my manager couldn't find anything negative (which really seemed to piss her off), so she started to attack other things... I mean it got so detailed she was talking about my boobs. So I told her 'Listen, I am really not comfortable with this, I am very self-conscious and this isn't helping,' but the subject was dropped. Well for the rest of the week she kept coming up to me and just putting me down so I emailed our regional manager (her boss). He just happened to be in on Tuesday so I sat down with him and talked to him for over an hour. He definitely was backing me and made me feel much better... until today.
We are really lucky at work, we have our own cafeteria and we get free lunch everyday. Well, there were 5 of us in the lunch room (myself, my friend, my manager, a male worker, and a female coworker) waiting for lunch when my manager yells out 'Natalie look at all of your cleavage' (mind you I was bending down, so it looks a little bigger) my friend snapped at my manager 'excuse me, that is completely uncalled for.' My manager just laughs and says 'well look at her' (at this point I was sweating because I was BRIGHT red), my friend stepped in again, 'That was completely uncalled for, apologize.' So of course my manager, brushed it off and was like 'sorry.' Well, by this point the other two who were not involved in the conversation walked out of the room and I then excused myself to go to the bathroom, just to look at myself and reassure myself I didn't look like a hooker!
About 20 minutes after lunch my manager came up to me and pulled me into a conference room (I was just waiting for this)... she said 'Now Natalie, we both know you are very well endowed (yes, I have big boobs) and I'm sorry for what I said, but you have to start watching what you wear to work.'
I almost lost it. Because she said something totally uncalled for she turned it around on me and said I was not following our dress code.
Let me tell you what I am wearing... I have on gray slacks, a white button up blouse (which is buttoned to the tip) and a black cardigan on over it. There is nothing inappropriate with what I am wearing and I am really really really really really mad. So anyway, I just needed to vent. I've already talked to my managers' manager and my HR rep, so we will see where this goes... I hate don't like this at all, I don't like to ruin things that are going smoothly but really, there is nothing else I can do.
I am just so upset right now yet my fingers are typing so darn fast!
My advice to you...copy this post, write it down exactly as it happened, place, time date, people involved. Have someone take a photograph (with date stampt) of you in the outfit you wore to work today. Have your coworkers who wittnessed the event document what they saw and heard. I also recommend that you consult a lawyer who specializes in harrassment cases. He or she will most likely offer a free consultation and give you an idea of your rights. Personally, a jerk such as this will only get worse. The worse thing that could happen when you go to see a lawyer would be to find out you don't have a cause of action. But if you don't seek legal cousel, you'll never really know. A manager in HR should know better than that. Maybe your friend who left had other reasons? Sexual harrassment can come from men or women.
Okay it is sad to say but unfortunatly you are not alone.. and if u dont stand up the way you are doing it more people they will continue.. i had a job in where t got so bad i called the cops.. so dont be afriad.. we are all here for you.. and if it makes you feel better
WOMEN PAY FOR FAKE BREAST.. SO BE HAPPY WITH WHAT YOU GOT!!!!!
ps.. did i mention im getting a breast reduccion December!? LOL but its medical reasons. otherwise these babies would stay as they are!
Originally posted by Snertsmom@Sep 30 2004, 02:25 PM Natalie, you are in the right. Sounds like judi has given you some very good advice.
I'm afraid I would have been tempted to have replied to the manager when she made a big issue about my boobs..."Thank you, but I'm really not interested, I have a BOYFRIEND"...that would have put her in her place...pronto!
What she did was totally uncalled for in the work field. Wonder how she got to be manager with that kind of mouth?
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See that's the catch. I was in a very similar instance in my previous workplace. A woman (Selina) was a conveyancing officer when I first started at the firm (I worked in a law firm). We never got along - she did everything she could to make my life miserable, including embarrasing me in front of both clients and co-workers. I was office manager for about 12 months, and I specifically remember that I got two new staff, I was sitting with them teaching them etc (ok, imagine this, we are in a professional office, and I am teaching these girls things that have legal implications if done wrong - so it's pretty serious stuff. They needed to respect me and listen to me). Anyway, Selina came up to me right in front of them and abused the heck out of me (I'm talking yelling) because she had to clear the fax machine. I had never felt so intimidated, embarrased and small in my entire life.
So it was party all around when she left for overseas. Unfortunately late last year (4 years into my employment) she returned. By this time, I was working as a paralegal. She came in as office manager - took our jobs off us and took us back to more or less admin workers - I had worked darn hard to get that position and I loved it so I wasn't happy(It was also done without even consulting us) - but here's the thing - I HAD TO TRAIN HER. I started to and she decided that she didn't like me teaching her (I NEVER spoke down to her or anything like that - I think it is because she knew she shouldn't have the position and I was more qualified for it - having done reception, word processing, administration, head of administration, office manager, paralegal, accounts and being a year into my law degree) Anyway, so she stopped that training and then did the same things - yelling at me in front of others for things that had nothing to do with me. If it didn't she'd find a way to make it my fault. And she'd pick at every little thing. One morning (we started at 8.15am) I walked into the office with another girl who worked there, I was running a little late I admit. By the time I sat down at my desk and turned on my computer it was 8.19am. She came over and yelled at me in front of everyone, saying all this horrible stuff to me - she nearly had me in tears. SHE DIDN'T SAY A WORD TO THE OTHER GIRL!!
So her bullying kept going for about 6 months - but you couldn't say anything because she was right up the backside of the partners/management. She could do no wrong. The only person who would listen was my HR manager - and they booted her for it (I wasn't the only one who complained about Selina - but we were all wrong according to them - and they decided that the HR manager was more or less making it all up and fired her).
She (the HR manager) tried to prove it to them. She did an "anonymous" survey. People were honest because they weren't going to know who said what. So HR collated results and took it to management. Management then did something TOTALLY ILLEGAL. They forced the HR manager to give them each original survey so they knew who said what, despite her saying "no" and that they were guaranteed anonymous and it was against the law. They got them anyway, then booted her out the door.
I got so fed up with everything, that I quit without even having a job to go to. I'm a very "stability & security loving" type person - I'm not really one for risks - so that was pretty darn bad for me. Anyway, I finished up there on the day before Good Friday - and I haven't looked back since. As far as I am concerned all I got was 4 1/2 years of unappreciated hard work down the drain - and she still has reign of terror there. Staff turnover is DISGUSTING, as is staff morale. But obviously they will never learn.
I loved my work, but after that, I had no respect for any of them, especially management and no desire to ever be there. I would cry in the morning at the thought of having to go to work... so you know. Oh and the pay was KRAP
So I'm now working for a power company just doing account/admin work. I get paid $10,000 a year more for doing about 20% of the work I used to. I am sooo appreciated and I love it here more than anything.
Get out of there while you can. People like that don't change. And management/partners never have the balls to ever stand up for themselves or their staff.
I've just been to a big talk on harassment here too - get a diary and write down EVERY COMMENT, EVERYTHING that happens - times, places, witnesses, comments made, circumstances - EVERYTHING. You need to have it documented or it's your word against your bosses. I would also record any sick leave, details of your general health etc aswell - sometimes stuff like this can have very serious health/psychological effects on people. Trust me, I worked for lawyers for 4 1/2 years and I am currently studying law, I know the claims that can be made.
Girl! She's obviously doing it on purpose because you're not being her pet. Next time she says something about your boobies, ask her, "DO YOU WANNA SEE IT?" Or even better say, "You wanna TOUCH it? Do you wanna know how it feels to have big boobies?" That stuff will throw her off guard!
Just kidding. She'll be an idiot to say anything now. She knows the rules. She can't be saying stuff like that. Don't feel guilty at all! If I knew who you were, personally, I'd kill you for feeling guilty. She deserves it. She was trying to make you feel bad. Havent you felt bad ENOUGH already?
SUNSHINE-I have left a place to work somewhere where I was paid alot less. And for awhile I was really happy regardless! That is until they BSed w/me about my raise. And then I left. And what happen? It took 2 people to replace me! HAHA, SCREW THEM! They ended paying more to replace me!
Now that this has happen to you guys, you gotta tell yourself NEVER to let people step all over you again! And Nataliecmu--Do you really want to be insecure all your life? Who cares?!?!?! And if it makes you feel a little better...ANYONE WHO MAKES FUN OF ANOTHER, HAS SOMETHING THAT THEY'RE HIDING THEMSELVES. Which means they're more insecure than you are.
Originally posted by ButterCloudandNoriko@Sep 30 2004, 10:22 PM SUNSHINE-I have left a place to work somewhere where I was paid alot less. And for awhile I was really happy regardless! That is until they BSed w/me about my raise. And then I left. And what happen? It took 2 people to replace me! HAHA, SCREW THEM! They ended paying more to replace me!
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Oh I'm definitely not saying that money was the problem - but it ended up being like a bittersweet revenge for me because she was always telling me that I was paid too much and that I'd never get any better anywhere else... and then this came up... I was like "Yeah! I hate you and TAKE THAT!!!" LOL
I'm a definite believer in doing something that makes you happy, regardless of the money - as you get older, memories and experiences are what keep you going, not money - money is secondary - if the experience is good, stick with it - if not and you've given it a decent chance to calm down, well get on with life - cos only you can make it better!! That's my philosophy!
Hi all!
Thank you so much for your comments! I'm feeling good today, I know my manager is on the phone with out HR rep right now... so we will see what happens. I talked with my HR rep for 50 minutes after work hours last night, we went into DETAIL, we will see what happens.
Originally posted by ButterCloudandNoriko@Sep 30 2004, 10:22 PM Nataliecmu--Do you really want to be insecure all your life? Who cares?!?!?! And if it makes you feel a little better...ANYONE WHO MAKES FUN OF ANOTHER, HAS SOMETHING THAT THEY'RE HIDING THEMSELVES. Which means they're more insecure than you are.
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The thing with that is... no one makes me feel bad, I am the kind of person that can make everything a joke. I usually let everything just slide, because usually it doesn't bother me, but this time... I was like WHAT??? Are you KIDDING?
I know after thinking about it all night what really makes me the most mad...
She messed up, she never should have said that! Appologize (and make it a real appology)! Honestly I would have probably been okay with that...BUT when she turned it around on me and made it MY FAULT I blew up...did I mention that when I got up and walked out of the conference room I shut the light off (it has no windows) with her still in it? HA
Anyway, I have spoken to her manager a few more times, sent him and my HR rep a picture of what I was wearing and I don't think they are just going to let it slide. I have written everything down and everyone who I have named has been contacted and they have also been told to document this. I trust her manager, he is a great guy and he really has gone to bat for me. I am not the kind of person to just give up. I will not quit because of her... That means she wins, and I won't let that happen. Her manager begged me not to quit, he said the same thing, he said Natalie, if you quit she will win and she will continue to do it to other people. Try and tough it out. So I'm going to, and we will see. God knows I will NOT let this happen again.
As of right now I'm looking for a transfter to our HQ in Chi-town!
I'm glad you're feeling better...however, do not let the management sweep this problem away. You should expect nothing less than a formal apology from her in writing, addressing what exactly she did that was wrong. And whatever you decide, do not...DO NOT...DO NOT....DO NOT sign anything without having your lawyer review it first. If your HR rep is good, he or she will give you an incident waiver to sign. Tell them before you sign, you'd like your attorney to review it (even if you don't have one.) Take it home and read it thoroughly before you do anything. If the HR rep says something like "I can't let you take this from the office," then ask the HR rep to give you time to consult with your attorney. Never give up your rights to anything without legal counsel.
She really screwed up when she did this infront of other people. I don't think management can let it go. They have to know that in this day and age if they didn't do something about it you could turn around and sue their A$$! Harassment is a BIG NO NO these days. It is not something that businesses can afford to overlook.
That said I still agree with everyone else. Make sure you consult an attorney before you sign anything. Just to be on the safe side. If you can't get one take your time reading everything and maybe have someone else read it to make sure you didn't miss something.
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