[allheart]

You looked at the wrong list. The AMA does NOT charge a fee to see their breeder list
American Maltese Association


You asked for an opinion and it was given. As I said I don't know this kennel but based on their site, I wouldn't give them any business EVER. I would take a look at the breeder list and contact some of the breeders in your state. If they can't help you, I'm sure they can direct you to a breeder who can. Good luck!!

Bingo Stacy. :thumbsup:

 

[Starsmom]

allheart: I actually just got done reading that Thanks for the link. I looked for the AMA breeders list but there's a fee that must be paid to view it... I may end up paying it if I don't have any luck elsewhere.

I did contact a hobby breeder, Sandy from Foley, Missouri who home raises her dogs She only breeds Maltese, won't let them go before they are 12 weeks, and her puppies are never in kennels. She only has one litter for sale and does not breed often and the pups come with a 2 year congenital health guarentee. All pictures are from inside the home and the pups look happy, not that it means much (they're not set shots with fancy backdrops, costumes, etc. they are pictures of the pups running around, having fun inside thehome)

As a disclaimer, I am not trying to bring bad press on Koenen... I do believe everyone's innocent until proven guilty and by all accounts, the owner seemed like a very genuine, caring person and the puppies do look happy from what pictures I have seen.

There's no fee to view the AMA list - try this link! There are breeders in WA
American Maltese Association

Also look here: USA BREEDER'S this list was comprised by a SM member/breeder (Tina) with input from other SM members.
And read this discusson we had last year - Breeders Health Guarantee

 

[Starsmom]

allheart: I actually just got done reading that Thanks for the link. I looked for the AMA breeders list but there's a fee that must be paid to view it... I may end up paying it if I don't have any luck elsewhere.

I did contact a hobby breeder, Sandy from Foley, Missouri who home raises her dogs She only breeds Maltese, won't let them go before they are 12 weeks, and her puppies are never in kennels. She only has one litter for sale and does not breed often and the pups come with a 2 year congenital health guarentee. All pictures are from inside the home and the pups look happy, not that it means much (they're not set shots with fancy backdrops, costumes, etc. they are pictures of the pups running around, having fun inside thehome)

As a disclaimer, I am not trying to bring bad press on Koenen... I do believe everyone's innocent until proven guilty and by all accounts, the owner seemed like a very genuine, caring person and the puppies do look happy from what pictures I have seen.

Some states require that no matter how many animals you have you have to have a USDA license. It does not mean that they are a "puppy mill". To find out which state does this requires quite a bit of research. I do know Kansas is not one. If you breed in Kansas at all, you are required to be licensed by the state.
In Iowa, there is Marty Klabunde in Honey Creek is a good Maltese breeder. Her kennel name is Cedarwood. Email for her phone number.

Tina, this is in your part of the country, do you know of this breeder?
BTW, I cannot find anything about Showme Maltese in MO from your list on the web.

 

[muffinman]

Tina, this is in your part of the country, do you know of this breeder?
BTW, I cannot find anything about Showme Maltese in MO from your list on the web.

Starsmom, you are awesome, thanks for the AMA list - I clicked on a link to the old 2009 one in another thread (which was broken).

I saw pictures of the mom of the puppy Sandy is selling, she looks clean, healthy and everyone's inside the house. She is dual registered via AKC/APRI and she owns the sire (APRI). I have one other alternative (no longer considering Koenen Kennels) and am starting to look for shelter pups / teens on petfinder.com as well

 

[bellaratamaltese]

Starsmom, you are awesome, thanks for the AMA list - I clicked on a link to the old 2009 one in another thread (which was broken).

I saw pictures of the mom of the puppy Sandy is selling, she looks clean, healthy and everyone's inside the house. She is dual registered via AKC/APRI and she owns the sire (APRI). I have one other alternative (no longer considering Koenen Kennels) and am starting to look for shelter pups / teens on petfinder.com as well

I think looking at Petfinder is a great idea. The APRI registry makes me nervous - most reputable breeders do not register with an 'alternate' registry, they register with AKC.

Did you check out the show breeders on the AMA list?

 

[muffinman]

She has two sires, one is APRI, the other is AKC - the father of this litter is APRI however (the mother is AKC). She was open to sharing information and pictures about the parents (including several pictures of the mother with her pups). A couple of the pups are extra small and the breeder insisted on keeping them longer than 12-13 weeks to ensure they're safe to travel, which was nice to hear.

Yes, I'm going to reach out to Hilite and Ron(?) but I'm not counting on them having puppies available right now and they may be a bit out of our price range.. but couldn't hurt to check and get their advice.

The problem with petfinder is that most of the dogs we were interested in are fostered at shelters that do not ship - our choices are limited by our geography at the moment, but I will definitely keep looking

 

[maggieh]

You may want to check out information about APRI which I think stands for America's Pet Registry. Would you buy a APRI registered puppy? - Yahoo! Answers

I would encourage you to check PetFinder as well and look for fluffs in your local area. There are way too many homeless pets to encourage back yard breeders to continue to add to the problem. I would also be hesitant about any breeders in Missouri as they have a large puppy mill reputation as well.

My Tessa is a rescue who was about a year old when I got her and she is the best dog you could ever ask for. Please give rescue some serious consideration.

 

[Starsmom]

Starsmom, you are awesome, thanks for the AMA list - I clicked on a link to the old 2009 one in another thread (which was broken).

I saw pictures of the mom of the puppy Sandy is selling, she looks clean, healthy and everyone's inside the house. She is dual registered via AKC/APRI and she owns the sire (APRI). I have one other alternative (no longer considering Koenen Kennels) and am starting to look for shelter pups / teens on petfinder.com as well

Thanks - but I just don't know about awesome!

I think looking at Petfinder is a great idea. The APRI registry makes me nervous - most reputable breeders do not register with an 'alternate' registry, they register with AKC.

Did you check out the show breeders on the AMA list?

Please listen to what Stacy (bellaratamaltese) is telling you - she is one of the show/breeders here. Cristine (allheart) Posted the entire post MALTESE BREEDERS - How to find and evaluate - you seem to have forgotten one of the RED FLAG points: > Puppy is registered with a registry other than the AKC. Make sure you check the AKC suspension list, too. (See link below) Breeders will try to tell potential buyers all sorts of reasons why they have "chosen" to register their puppies with the alternative registries, when in reality they may have been suspended from the AKC. APRI is an alternative registry.The breeder you select should be unquestionably reputable. Everyone here is very helpful with guiding newbies in the right direction to find the right breeder - all you have to do is ask (and you are). Remember, the breeder you are talking to in MO is a sales person. She's going to be nice b/c she wants to sell you a pup. Bottom line: Do your homework. Care to share the name of this MO breeder?

Forgive me, but you seem to have a terminal case of "puppy fever". Please take your time, and listen to all the advice the others are giving. Don't rush into a puppy contract that could be detrimental to you pocket. There is a sub-forum here Rescue Maltese For Adoption look at this - ALL rescues from Northcentral Maltese Rescue, and American Maltese Association Rescue are fully vetted. All you have to provide is food and copious amounts of L:heart:VE! So don't count them out. These fluffs really need a home. All AMA rescue dogs are lised on www.petfinder.com, Northcentral Maltese Rescue dogs can be found at this link- http://malteserescue.homestead.com/

BTW, :Welcome 4:

 

[bellaratamaltese]

Good post, Marsha!

To the OP, do you know what you are looking for, as far as a maltese? Bigger? Smaller? This is a good thread to 'browse' from
http://spoiledmaltese.com/forum/56-breeders/90439-where-did-your-dog-come.html Plus it's just a fun thread to browse through!

It seems like you're doing your puppy searching on sites like Puppyfind. You will be hard pressed to find a truly reputable breeder on puppyfind, although there are some that advertise on there. BUT they are few and far between and it can be difficult to weed out the good/bad.

For a nicely bred puppy, expect to pay at least $1000 (for a male) This isnt' the time to bargain shop. Breeders who own APRI registered dogs as part of their breeding program are never going to be truly 'reputable' and you'll be taking your chances there, regardless of how nice and helpful they are.

 

[Ladysmom]

For a nicely bred puppy, expect to pay at least $1000 (for a male) This isnt' the time to bargain shop. Breeders who own APRI registered dogs as part of their breeding program are never going to be truly 'reputable' and you'll be taking your chances there, regardless of how nice and helpful they are.

The cost of a puppy, no matter what it is, is a small amount compared to what you will spend on him over his lifetime. A "bargain" puppy usually ends up being no bargain in the long run. You can spend a fortune in vet bills trying to treat the genetic conditions they often inherit.

You have been given great advice. Save your money so you can afford to get a puppy from a reputable breeder.

 

[muffinman]

Understood, $1000 is reasonable and I'm willing to pay that but alot of the show breeder pups are listed for $2000+

We're looking heavily into petfinder and scouring the local ads for a rescue maltese.. however, our search is limited by the fact that we are looking for a puppy. We have a healthy, 9 year old Yorkie adopted several years ago but missed out on her puppy stage - it's something we want to experience at least once.

..and yes, while we may have puppy fever (partially attributed to the above reason), I wouldn't say it's *terminal*... as we have already passed up 7-8 puppies that we really liked (including the one from Koenen). It's tough.

Again, thanks for all the advice, we note them all.

Update: We are also checking out a local puppy from a hobby breeder, both parents on-site, home raised and everyone's AKC-registered. Looking forward to seeing them in person.

 

[k/c mom]

Understood, $1000 is reasonable and I'm willing to pay that but alot of the show breeder pups are listed for $2000+

We're looking heavily into petfinder and scouring the local ads for a rescue maltese.. however, our search is limited by the fact that we are looking for a puppy. We have a healthy, 9 year old Yorkie adopted several years ago but missed out on her puppy stage - it's something we want to experience at least once.

..and yes, while we may have puppy fever (partially attributed to the above reason), I wouldn't say it's *terminal*... as we have already passed up 7-8 puppies that we really liked (including the one from Koenen). It's tough.

Again, thanks for all the advice, we note them all.

Update: We are also checking out a local puppy from a hobby breeder, both parents on-site, home raised and everyone's AKC-registered. Looking forward to seeing them in person.

We've had people post on here before like you are posting ... going from one bad breeder to another ... it usually doesn't end well. This "hobby breeder" ... does she show? That is the first place to start .. if the breeder doesn't show then she is using her Malts to earn some extra money or to make a living. Most all of us here would not recommend such a breeder.

BTW, "Both parents on site" is no big deal and not in any way indicative of a good breeder.

 

[muffinman]

We've had people post on here before like you are posting ... going from one bad breeder to another ... it usually doesn't end well. This "hobby breeder" ... does she show? That is the first place to start .. if the breeder doesn't show then she is using her Malts to earn some extra money or to make a living. Most all of us here would not recommend such a breeder.

BTW, "Both parents on site" is no big deal and not in any way indicative of a good breeder.

Never said she was ..but it's certaintly nice to see where the puppies are coming from. I'll be able to check out both of their pedigrees / see their records, watch them interact and see their living conditions. I'm going to talk to her later this afternoon so I'll be sure to ask whether she shows any of her dogs. I'm also going to be working with her vet to schedule a bile test prior to purchase as well.

To the contrary, most people I know, outside of the educated YorkieTalk and SpoiledMaltese community, don't purchase $2000+puppies from show breeders and the vast majority of them have very happy, healthy, beautiful puppies (purchased from local hobby breeders). Just an opinion, but I think it's bit of an exageration to say that most of these stories "don't end up well". In fact, just on this forum alone, there's more than a few members who've purchased from hobby breeders or worse (puppy mills) but still have wonderful, healthy companions.

It's a (calculated) risk/reward thing.. I'm sure everyone would love to drop $2000 on an amazing companion dog bred by a winning show breeder with 30+ years of experience, but money does matter.

There's always risk for a heartbreak, but as long as I'm confident that I'm not purchasing from a puppy mill, nor from breeders who neglect their dogs, the puppies are healthy and I feel comfortable with them, that's the $ to risk tradeoff I'm willing to accept responsibility for.

At the very least, you guys have taught me to not purchase a puppy online unless it's from a very, very reputable show breeder or a rescue shelter. I will take that part of the lesson to heart and stick with locals, even if I have to pay a little more.

 

[Starsmom]

Understood, $1000 is reasonable and I'm willing to pay that but alot of the show breeder pups are listed for $2000+

We're looking heavily into petfinder and scouring the local ads for a rescue maltese.. however, our search is limited by the fact that we are looking for a puppy. We have a healthy, 9 year old Yorkie adopted several years ago but missed out on her puppy stage - it's something we want to experience at least once.

..and yes, while we may have puppy fever (partially attributed to the above reason), I wouldn't say it's *terminal*... as we have already passed up 7-8 puppies that we really liked (including the one from Koenen). It's tough.

Again, thanks for all the advice, we note them all.

Update: We are also checking out a local puppy from a hobby breeder, both parents on-site, home raised and everyone's AKC-registered. Looking forward to seeing them in person.

We've had people post on here before like you are posting ... going from one bad breeder to another ... it usually doesn't end well. This "hobby breeder" ... does she show? That is the first place to start .. if the breeder doesn't show then she is using her Malts to earn some extra money or to make a living. Most all of us here would not recommend such a breeder.

BTW, "Both parents on site" is no big deal and not in any way indicative of a good breeder.

I understand the your desire for a puppy. Take your time to find the right breeder, and puppy. It can be a mine field out there when looking for that right breeder. We don't want you to misstep, we have nothing to gain, we just want you to have a healthy puppy, who will give you many, many years of companionship.

Just because the litter is AKC registered doesn't mean the breeder is reputable. As Steph (k/c mom) stated, does this breeder show, another question to ask is: Do you do DNA testing, is there a spay/neuter agreement? If ANY of the answers to these 3 questions is "No", OR the answer is skirted around, run don't walk away. There is a term for a breeder like this - BYB: Backyard Breeder - as Steph said someone making money off of her dogs. :yucky::angry:

 

[muffinman]

I understand the your desire for a puppy. Take your time to find the right breeder, and puppy. It can be a mine field out there when looking for that right breeder. We don't want you to misstep, we have nothing to gain, we just want you to have a healthy puppy, who will give you many, many years of companionship.

Just because the litter is AKC registered doesn't mean the breeder is reputable. As Steph (k/c mom) stated, does this breeder show, another question to ask is: Do you do DNA testing, is there a spay/neuter agreement? If ANY of the answers to these 3 questions is "No", OR the answer is skirted around, run don't walk away. There is a term for a breeder like this - BYB: Backyard Breeder - as Steph said someone making money off of her dogs. :yucky::angry:

I'll definitely add those to the list of my questions when I call / visit their home to see the dogs this weekend. I don't plan on picking them up until next week so will be leaving the wallet at home, for sure Thanks much.

 

[Starsmom]

Never said she was ..but it's certaintly nice to see where the puppies are coming from. I'll be able to check out both of their pedigrees / see their records, watch them interact and see their living conditions. I'm going to talk to her later this afternoon so I'll be sure to ask whether she shows any of her dogs. I'm also going to be working with her vet to schedule a bile test prior to purchase as well.

To the contrary, most people I know, outside of the educated YorkieTalk and SpoiledMaltese community, don't purchase $2000+puppies from show breeders and the vast majority of them have very happy, healthy, beautiful puppies (purchased from local hobby breeders). Just an opinion, but I think it's bit of an exageration to say that most of these stories "don't end up well". In fact, just on this forum alone, there's more than a few members who've purchased from hobby breeders or worse (puppy mills) but still have wonderful, healthy companions.

It's a (calculated) risk/reward thing.. I'm sure everyone would love to drop $2000 on an amazing companion dog bred by a winning show breeder with 30+ years of experience, but money does matter.

There's always risk for a heartbreak, but as long as I'm confident that I'm not purchasing from a puppy mill, nor from breeders who neglect their dogs, the puppies are healthy and I feel comfortable with them, that's the $ to risk tradeoff I'm willing to accept responsibility for.

At the very least, you guys have taught me to not purchase a puppy online unless it's from a very, very reputable show breeder or a rescue shelter. I will take that part of the lesson to heart and stick with locals, even if I have to pay a little more.

I think bile acid test should NOT be done before 6 mo of age. To go through her vet would be considered a conflict of interest (the vets interest). Aside from the first sentence in the last paragraph in the post above, I don't believe you heard anything! :smilie_tischkante:

 

[edelweiss]

Just to quickly clarify 2 issues (I haven't lived in the US for 37 yrs. so I may be wrong on what happens there today but I do believe. . .

There are a # of breeders who do BAT at 12 weeks before the puppy is released.
DNA is normally done to determine parentage---not health issues for maltese.
IF I have misspoken please correct me!

 

[muffinman]

I think bile acid test should NOT be done before 6 mo of age. To go through her vet would be considered a conflict of interest (the vets interest). Aside from the first sentence in the last paragraph in the post above, I don't believe you heard anything! :smilie_tischkante:

Sorry, I'm confused - I've been advised on this site to never buy a Maltese puppy without having the bile test performed... unless all of these people are buying puppies older than 6 months...? There are vets here who will perform the test on puppies at 12-16 wks of age.

Noted about the conflict of interest; I can always find another vet or ask the breeder to do it for me and provide me with the results.

We're all cut from a different mold with different tolerances, and I'm not disagreeing with anything the others are saying - just pointing out the whole "OMG if you don't buy your puppy from a championship show breeder for $2000, your puppy is doomed and you support puppy mills" attitude that's overzealous at times in this community MAY not always be correct.

I'm somewhere in between...puppy mills and neglected dogs = a big no-no. Hobby breeders? I don't mind as long as the pups are healthy, the dogs are well loved and taken care of. Not everyone is a saint, selling puppies at a loss for the betterment of the breed... doesn't mean they're horrible people, selling horrible dogs. Capitalism brings out the worst in some people, for sure, but it's not always a bad thing.

 

[elly]

My sweet Ellie came from a nice local women in Texas, house was clean, dogs well cared for. Ellie was everything she told me, loving, playful and sweet. She died at 5 from liver disease, if I had not had a blood panel before her spay I would never have known she was sick. The nice lady in Texas would not return my calls, you would think she would want to know all the problems my Ellie had, not only LD, IBD, bad knee's grade 3 and 4 and Pancreatic Insufficiency. If people would stop buying from hobbie BYB breeders the demand would go and we would not have so many dogs in shelters and on Petfinder.

 

[Starsmom]

Try contacting Tina - the same Tina who responded to this thread. She is a hobby/show breeder. HOME is her site - take a look see.